n2mb_racing
Active Member
Correct. Not zero, but Effectively zero since the lfp batteries should last almost a million miles.
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MASTER THREAD: Powering house or other things with Model 3
- Thread starter Vines
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- powerwall solar home
PianoAl
Active Member
Apparently the Lightning can power a house, but it's complicated.
www.slashgear.com
Ford's Electric Pickup Can Power Your House In An Outage, But The Cost Could Be Eye-Watering - SlashGear
Ford's F-150 Lightning has a massive battery that can reportedly power an entire house for a significant amount of time.
www.slashgear.com
n2mb_racing
Active Member
Apparently the Lightning can power a house, but it's complicated.
Ford's Electric Pickup Can Power Your House In An Outage, But The Cost Could Be Eye-Watering - SlashGear
Ford's F-150 Lightning has a massive battery that can reportedly power an entire house for a significant amount of time.
The article is kind of overly dramatic. You could also take the simple and cheaper route and ask an electrician to install a standard generator transfer switch and then plug in the truck to your house using the built-in 240V inverter. Probably less than $1000 in and labor.
Generator Transfer Switch Installation Cost in 2023 | Linquip
One part of costs for generator installation is the generator transfer switch installation cost, for which you will find a breakdown of costs here.
www.linquip.com
I think you'll be limited to 240V and 30A, but probably enough to run quite a few things in your house.
Apparently the Lightning can power a house, but it's complicated.
Ford's Electric Pickup Can Power Your House In An Outage, But The Cost Could Be Eye-Watering - SlashGear
Ford's F-150 Lightning has a massive battery that can reportedly power an entire house for a significant amount of time.
Yeah, its funny how quick people were to jump on the whole "its so much cheaper than the powerwall" aspect, without looking at the real costs. These are exaggerated, but even the lowest cost approach will not be cheap.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
How so? It's no more expensive than a generator if you use the built-in inverter. You just need to install a transfer switch and plug the 240V outlet into the house.
I'm actually really excited for the F150 lightning to take off. Hopefully contractors love it and stop using small gas engines all the time. I hate when I have contractors at my house running a loud generator all day. Or pressure washers. Those things are super annoying. I've even had roofers that ran a small engine for their shingle ladder hoist. All these small engines need to be replaced with quiet electric motors.
The 240V outlet on the Lightning is going to be great for electric pressure washers and all these construction site small engines. And it will probably be cheaper too. Those engines are probably terribly fuel inefficient.
PianoAl
Active Member
Now if we can get them to turn down their radios.
Yeah, I think you are right. If I understand it correct, the onboard inverter is good for ~6kw continuous (I'm assuming the 80% rule applies for continuous loads from the onboard 14-30 outlet). I thought that would be limiting, but I guess the more expensive solution is only ~9.6kw anyway.
If the difference isn't significant, then, yeah, there are cheaper ways to do this.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Standard one is 2.4kW, but comes only with 120V outlets. The 240V come in the 9.6kW option which is $1070, although it is included in the Lariat and Platinum trims.
Ford F-150 Lightning: Everything You Need To Know Before Ordering
This week, Ford is opening the order bank for the all-new F-150 Lightning electric pickup and, since the configurator is online, let's take a look into the details.
www.google.com
I'm pretty sure that if you don't pay for the extra hardware for "Intelligent Backup Power capability", you'd be pulling a max of 6k off the 14-30R for backup power.Standard one is 2.4kW, but comes only with 120V outlets. The 240V come in the 9.6kW option which is $1070, although it is included in the Lariat and Platinum trims.
Ford F-150 Lightning: Everything You Need To Know Before Ordering
This week, Ford is opening the order bank for the all-new F-150 Lightning electric pickup and, since the configurator is online, let's take a look into the details.
That is pretty cool that Tesla mobile service uses it.
I think the most straightforward and sort of conservative way to power up any decent size inverter, is to use a make-before-break marine switch with a 2 Ohm 100 Watt resistor in parallel for the pre-charge. That way the most you can draw initially is 7 amps (14 v/2 Ohm). Your car will stay happy. And then you use the switch to bypass the 2 Ohm resistor. Then after the bypass, you can draw more current, like maybe up to 30 amps using 6 gauge wire for example. You also need appropriate fuse and fuse holder. (I think the acronym is ANS.) You can do a lot if you are able to charge a Jackery 1500 Watt-hour battery(or equivalent) at 300 Watts.
My question is: is the model Y the same as the model 3 in terms of having 14 volt studs under the passenger seat? Or is there another thread for that?
n2mb_racing
Active Member
Really, any serious power switch or relay should work if you setup the pre-charge resistors to be always connected and then flip the switch to power on the inverter when you actually intend on using it.
Another option would be to use XT90 anti-spark connectors to plug in the inverter, if you only plan on using it occasionally. You can wire it up with 10awg silicone wire and leave the female connector on the car, put the male connector on your inverter. The anti-spark connector includes a 5.6 ohm pre-charge resistor that makes contact first when you plug the connector in, so if you plug it in slowly, it will precharge the inverter caps and won't have any issues once fully connected. The XT90 connectors are rated for 90A, but for continuous use, I'd stay below that.
However, I think the problem comes in if the car shuts down or goes to sleep while you are using the inverter. When it powers back on with the inverter still connected, it will trigger the overcurrent fault. So, that involves remembering to manually unplug or turn off the inverter before the car sleeps, and then reconnecting it when you are going to use it.
Earlier in this thread, someone posted a nice schematic using a relay and a pre-charge circuit that would automatically precharge the inverter and flip the relay on once the caps were charged. That's probably the best option, if you want to do it right.
Another option would be to use XT90 anti-spark connectors to plug in the inverter, if you only plan on using it occasionally. You can wire it up with 10awg silicone wire and leave the female connector on the car, put the male connector on your inverter. The anti-spark connector includes a 5.6 ohm pre-charge resistor that makes contact first when you plug the connector in, so if you plug it in slowly, it will precharge the inverter caps and won't have any issues once fully connected. The XT90 connectors are rated for 90A, but for continuous use, I'd stay below that.
However, I think the problem comes in if the car shuts down or goes to sleep while you are using the inverter. When it powers back on with the inverter still connected, it will trigger the overcurrent fault. So, that involves remembering to manually unplug or turn off the inverter before the car sleeps, and then reconnecting it when you are going to use it.
Earlier in this thread, someone posted a nice schematic using a relay and a pre-charge circuit that would automatically precharge the inverter and flip the relay on once the caps were charged. That's probably the best option, if you want to do it right.
Just jumping into this discussion ... I'm current owner of a Nissan Leaf and soon-to-be owner of a MYLR.
I've been doing this just fine with the Leaf. Built a replacement battery holder, which contains a 150 amp fuse and an Anderson connector for the 12vdc. This connects to a 1000watt pure-sinewave inverter. I also installed a generator inlet connected to my main load center, and a mechanical interlock that only allows the generator inlet to be connected when the main breaker is turned off (this is not allowed in some jurisdictions, because it fails to work if the front panel of the load center is removed).
Unfortunately these small inverters produce only 120vac (not 240vac). So I made a cord that connects the hot signal from the inverter to BOTH hot pins on the generator inlet. This means I can power my 120vac loads, but my 240vac loads will see zero volts; this is fine, because there's not enough power for 240vac loads anyhow. What is NOT fine is if your house has any multi-wire branch circuits (MWBC), because two 120vac outlets that are sharing a neutral are supposed to be out of phase, but they're not, potentially overloading the neutral wire. Fortunately I don't have any MWBCs. Interestingly, and fortunately, our dual-fuel range (gas cooktop + electric oven) has a neutral wire, so even though the oven doesn't work, the control circuitry still gets 120vac, which allows gas to flow so we can use the cooktop.
Anyhow, I'm here because these comments about fridges piqued my interest. Because my system can easily power the fridge, and even when the fridge goes through cycling of the compressor there are no problems (it is a 2016 vintage KitchenAId unit). But occasionally it gets into a mode where the inverter cannot even handle the fridge alone - the inverter instantly overloads and shuts off. I can only conclude that this is because the fridge has entered an auto-defrost cycle. I've been pondering how to temporarily disable auto-defrost when running in backup mode. The best I can come up with is to install a normally-closed relay in the wire to the defrost heater (on the evaporator) and have the coil inputs coming out to where I can connect a battery when I need to disable defrost. I think this would probably work well; but I haven't implemented it yet, because the evaporator is at the back of the freezer compartment (it's a French-door style) and a PITA to access.
Anyhow, other than bragging on my system
, I wanted to make people aware of this potential hiccup with powering a fridge with small inverter.Most people don't use their real names on forums such as these. Unless Tesla is actually able to strong-arm sites into providing folks' real email address and correlating from there.
Im not sure what point you are making here. The post of mine you are quoting is:
1. from 2021
2. in Reference to another members quote where they tried to create a brand new thread stating "tesla is voiding warranties using social media information", ( a scare mongoring type thread) when the actual article they were linking to was about voiding a warranty on the 12v battery which at the time was $80.
3. The article in question stated the person had posted the information on a facebook group page / their facebook page, where it is likely they used real information.
It looks the same as Model 3 based on the videos I have seen. Check out the Munro teardown videos.
Glad to see you have a working setup. However, just FYI, the post you quoted was referring to a much smaller inverter (~100W).Just jumping into this discussion ... I'm current owner of a Nissan Leaf and soon-to-be owner of a MYLR.
I've been doing this just fine with the Leaf. Built a replacement battery holder, which contains a 150 amp fuse and an Anderson connector for the 12vdc. This connects to a 1000watt pure-sinewave inverter. I also installed a generator inlet connected to my main load center, and a mechanical interlock that only allows the generator inlet to be connected when the main breaker is turned off (this is not allowed in some jurisdictions, because it fails to work if the front panel of the load center is removed).
Unfortunately these small inverters produce only 120vac (not 240vac). So I made a cord that connects the hot signal from the inverter to BOTH hot pins on the generator inlet. This means I can power my 120vac loads, but my 240vac loads will see zero volts; this is fine, because there's not enough power for 240vac loads anyhow. What is NOT fine is if your house has any multi-wire branch circuits (MWBC), because two 120vac outlets that are sharing a neutral are supposed to be out of phase, but they're not, potentially overloading the neutral wire. Fortunately I don't have any MWBCs. Interestingly, and fortunately, our dual-fuel range (gas cooktop + electric oven) has a neutral wire, so even though the oven doesn't work, the control circuitry still gets 120vac, which allows gas to flow so we can use the cooktop.
Anyhow, I'm here because these comments about fridges piqued my interest. Because my system can easily power the fridge, and even when the fridge goes through cycling of the compressor there are no problems (it is a 2016 vintage KitchenAId unit). But occasionally it gets into a mode where the inverter cannot even handle the fridge alone - the inverter instantly overloads and shuts off. I can only conclude that this is because the fridge has entered an auto-defrost cycle. I've been pondering how to temporarily disable auto-defrost when running in backup mode. The best I can come up with is to install a normally-closed relay in the wire to the defrost heater (on the evaporator) and have the coil inputs coming out to where I can connect a battery when I need to disable defrost. I think this would probably work well; but I haven't implemented it yet, because the evaporator is at the back of the freezer compartment (it's a French-door style) and a PITA to access.
Anyhow, other than bragging on my system
Sure, and I'm sure that for a 100W inverter, the compressor startup would almost certainly overload the thing. I was mainly trying to make the point that it appears auto-defrost is a bigger problem than compressor startup. In particular, I'm thinking that for the Tesla, these "jacketed" batteries (such as Jackery) are the way to go for me. So I'm wondering if the people here that are using these have had any trouble with auto-defrost when running fridges off them.
Good point. I use real name of Facebook too. Wish I hadn't. My stepsons are younger and wiser.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
Just jumping into this discussion ... I'm current owner of a Nissan Leaf and soon-to-be owner of a MYLR.
I've been doing this just fine with the Leaf. Built a replacement battery holder, which contains a 150 amp fuse and an Anderson connector for the 12vdc. This connects to a 1000watt pure-sinewave inverter. I also installed a generator inlet connected to my main load center, and a mechanical interlock that only allows the generator inlet to be connected when the main breaker is turned off (this is not allowed in some jurisdictions, because it fails to work if the front panel of the load center is removed).
Unfortunately these small inverters produce only 120vac (not 240vac). So I made a cord that connects the hot signal from the inverter to BOTH hot pins on the generator inlet. This means I can power my 120vac loads, but my 240vac loads will see zero volts; this is fine, because there's not enough power for 240vac loads anyhow. What is NOT fine is if your house has any multi-wire branch circuits (MWBC), because two 120vac outlets that are sharing a neutral are supposed to be out of phase, but they're not, potentially overloading the neutral wire. Fortunately I don't have any MWBCs. Interestingly, and fortunately, our dual-fuel range (gas cooktop + electric oven) has a neutral wire, so even though the oven doesn't work, the control circuitry still gets 120vac, which allows gas to flow so we can use the cooktop.
Anyhow, I'm here because these comments about fridges piqued my interest. Because my system can easily power the fridge, and even when the fridge goes through cycling of the compressor there are no problems (it is a 2016 vintage KitchenAId unit). But occasionally it gets into a mode where the inverter cannot even handle the fridge alone - the inverter instantly overloads and shuts off. I can only conclude that this is because the fridge has entered an auto-defrost cycle. I've been pondering how to temporarily disable auto-defrost when running in backup mode. The best I can come up with is to install a normally-closed relay in the wire to the defrost heater (on the evaporator) and have the coil inputs coming out to where I can connect a battery when I need to disable defrost. I think this would probably work well; but I haven't implemented it yet, because the evaporator is at the back of the freezer compartment (it's a French-door style) and a PITA to access.
Anyhow, other than bragging on my system
Interesting that that works. On some inverters, you can't do that since the neutral can't be shorted to the ground. Sometimes they essentially put a 60V out of phase sine wave on the neutral and 60V in phase sine on the hot, to get 120V total. It's strange, but works, until you short the neutral to ground.
Hopefully modern pure sine inverters don't do that anymore. Actually, I should check mine.... I got a 1500W 48V pure sine inverter, since I can't pull 1500W out of the refresh Model S. However, I have e-bike batteries that can supply 3000W, so I use them instead. I can also slow charge the ebike batteries from the car while using them, to keep it topped off.
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