Mercedes E350 Sport to Model 3

[Petrocelli]

Traded my W212 E350 Sport for a 2019 M3 SR+. There were many reasons that I made the decision, but truth be known my disappointment in the E350's handling was probably the biggest factor in my never really being satisfied with the W212.

Background; first car was an Opel GT, followed by RX7's, then 73 911, 84 911, 944, C4 Vette, C6, MR2 Turbo, a whole bunch of Miatas over the years. Done a few track days, but am far from a competitive driver. Had a family, fell in love with E Class wagons starting with the W210 and picked up the W212 sedan as a companion to the wagon to scratch the "sport" itch w/ something that I could put kids in.

Initially, on PZero's the E350 was too stiff. It stuck on a smooth surface but was too heavy and too stiffly sprung to corner if the road was not perfect. It would lose composure and bounce itself out of a corner. It pulled pretty well, but always felt heavy and of course you have to wait for RPM and wait for the transmission and after a three-count - off you go. The interior is not anywhere near as nice as the W210's. Seats hard as a rock. The interior does look nice. Ambient lighting and the gague cluster on the 2013 model was reminiscent of the way Porsche would lay theirs out. The sound system was great. It had a web browser and other advanced features that Mercedes decided to take away via software update for liability reasons. Swapped the tires a couple of times to less sport-oriented tires and became happier with the E350 but it worsened the already dull steering feel and poor chassis coordination.

Drove a M3 and was hooked. First, the sightlines over the top of the fenders and absence of a firewall, as well as the small steering wheel resonated up with memories of my 911SC. No, they are not remotely the same car, but the SR is a little tail happy with slip start on when faced with a high-speed off-camber turn. The M3 reminds me more of my business partner's 996 Turbo. The physics are kind of the same, with a very low center of gravity and a need to transfer weight to the back to hook it back up. Also, the World's best sports cars are not rock hard (which the E Class does because it is too heavy and the CG sucks), the 3 has a very nice balance of compliance and is dialed in better than my other daily driver, a VW GTI. The low center of gravity and RWD probably is a much easier platform for Tesla to tune.

As others have mentioned the body and paint on the Mercedes are FAR superior to the Tesla; I agree. Of course, 96% of your choices on the Mercedes are White Gray or Black; no color. On a daily driver I don't know if I care. The Tesla's interior is more comfortable with MUCH MUCH MUCH better, gripper and softer seats. The Tesla's steering is just a million times better than the Mercedes. The instant torque without vibration or noise are so much better than that antiquated heavy wheezing air compressor of a Mercedes V6 (even the good DI engine). Even my SR+ will smoke any E Class this side of a real AMG.

Luxury? There is nothing more luxurious than smooth instant torque. Nothing more luxurious than never buying nasty, smelly gas from a germy virus encrusted gas pump. Nothing as easy as charging from home every few days.

Then to top it off when I went to sell my E Class to a friend who wanted it the service center said an engine mount was going soft and they all should be changed for $1,600. This is not including the $125 to $400 routine services and $700 transmission service that I got done early after reading horror stories on the internet. Traded with just under 53,000 miles.

The Tesla has been perfect ... working perfectly thus far. Can't wait to drive it again. It's just so much fun!

JMHO, hope it helped you. I still love my old W210 wagon and plan to keep it forever. Not interested in anything Mercedes builds new any more. My next new car will be a Model Y. My only regret was not spending more and getting the fully deluxe interior on the M3 (wish I had ordered one of the last LR RWD).

Drove every version of a M3. Could afford any version. I really like my SR+ on 19's.

Thanks for your response. I read it with interest.

I agree 100% that if you want a sports car, you don't want a Mercedes C Class or E Class -- unless you want to spend a lot of money. My Mercedes is a great straight line, commuting car. It is fast, but not a car you want to zip around curves in at high speeds.

I drove the Model 3. It is an absolutely gorgeous car that is really fun to drive. I don't care for the interior, but that's a matter of taste. But as for the torque -- yeah, I get it. I absolutely get it. It's hard to hit the accelerator of a Model 3 for the first time without smiling and saying something like "Wow!"

I would conclude with this thought: If Tesla had service like Mercedes, I would be driving a Tesla right now. My life is simply to busy to deal with car issues.

When I started coming down to a decision on my car, I even asked a question in this forum about the local service center. Unfortunately, I did not get a single response. I did, however, find some posts here that talked about the West Los Angeles service center, and they were are uniformaly very critical of it. I also researched Yelp ratings and noticed that that service center went from having almost all 5 star reviews to mostly 1 star reviews in the course of about a year. That was concerning, I deduced it was due to the glut of Model 3s.

My problem is not with the car, as it is with the service right now, and that could change with the addition of a couple service centers. If there are build issues with the car, I'd overlook them if I could get a quick repair. I figure in 3 years (the length of my current lease), service issues will all sort themselves out, and I will get a Tesla or another EV then. In 10 years, I assume ICE vehicles will be like turntables or landlines.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

 

[Dmagyar]

I've come to my own solution on a certain member who's posting for no apparent reason, hit the ignore button...works flawlessly.

 

[gilscales]

I am finally getting to the point that I am going to order a 3 soon. I drove the RWD, and it ticked all the boxes except handling. Don’t get me wrong, I loved driving the 3, but coming from an E Class, I feel like it is less sure footed. With that said, has anyone bought a 3 and sold their W212 E Class? Which model did you buy? Also, does the AWD offer torque vectoring? Is there a substantial difference in the suspension setup between the Model 3 variants, or are they all the same? Thanks in advance!

Looks like you have a lot of responses so far but I will add mine anyway
While I have not owned a Mercedes since the 1997 E class we did have a 2014 535d with the sport package which did not handle nearly as well as the 2008 535i we owned and when we took delivery of our 2018 april build RWD LR model 3 I was blown away at the handling of this car while still being compliant enough to be a comfortable daily driver which to me is very important given the crappy roads here in SoCal

our car came with the sport wheels and better rubber than the 18's have, later I decided to change out the tires to wider 255/40/19's and went with the Conti DWS06, night and day better handling and WAY more grip, must be close to 1g on a skid pad now if I had to guess based on other cars I have test driven with that ability stock and is even more comfortable with the larger tire

as others have said the AWD models are even better in the corners as well, we have owned a lot of nice cars over the years and this is by far our favorite overall package, nothing even comes in a close second!

 

[SammichLover]

Considering Houston is typically hotter than Dallas, I'll take that as a plus. My wife who is south of 5ft tall said she felt it was warm in the back seat on the test drive, but being in Texas, the first thing I’d do is tint the windows when I took delivery.

There were reports earlier last year of mould build-up but Tesla reportedly pushed an update to have the system add (extend?) a post-shutdown fan cycle to better dry the coils. I’m on the dryer side of the metro area, I’m not Kingwood or down Galveston way, but I’ve never seen a mould smell issue that wasn’t a sweated up T-shirt I had forgotten on the passenger side floor.

And that in my mind is the clincher in any comparison to a Tesla. The car I’m driving today is a much better car than the one I bought. And it’ll be better next month, and the month after that.

 

[3inthree]

I am finally getting to the point that I am going to order a 3 soon. I drove the RWD, and it ticked all the boxes except handling. Don’t get me wrong, I loved driving the 3, but coming from an E Class, I feel like it is less sure footed. With that said, has anyone bought a 3 and sold their W212 E Class? Which model did you buy? Also, does the AWD offer torque vectoring? Is there a substantial difference in the suspension setup between the Model 3 variants, or are they all the same? Thanks in advance!

I went from a 2012 E350 to an early production Model 3 Long range, RWD (got mine before AWD was an option). I have never looked back.

 

[tvad]

Yeah, just gave it a try, rear vents are indeed off when no one is in seat. Hop in back and close the door and they turn on.

We tried this today, and indeed the rear vents turn on once someone sits in the back. Wonder why the manual does not discuss this feature?

Also, we discovered the rear vents remain on if the person in the back seat relocates to the front seat. After the car is emptied, locked and re-entered the rear vent defaults to off (with no one sitting in the back).

 

[Kado]

I went from a 2012 E350 to an early production Model 3 Long range, RWD (got mine before AWD was an option). I have never looked back.

That’s what I’m looking for precisely! Thanks!

 

[JetFalcon]

The only thing I wish Tesla would consider is having an interior similar to Mercedes. I love the chrome / leather of Mercedes seats. Even their cheapest new cars have high quality interiors. And my dad had a Mercedes E55 AMG, the leather still looked great after 10 years of use, and was still more comfortable than the Teslas seats.

Mercedes current screen is kinda outdated and hard to use. Tesla has a better GPS / screen.

 

[Kado]

The only thing I wish Tesla would consider is having an interior similar to Mercedes. I love the chrome / leather of Mercedes seats. Even their cheapest new cars have high quality interiors. And my dad had a Mercedes E55 AMG, the leather still looked great after 10 years of use, and was still more comfortable than the Teslas seats.

Mercedes current screen is kinda outdated and hard to use. Tesla has a better GPS / screen.

Mercedes uses a material called MB Tex for their seats. It’s not leather, but it is certainly comfortable, and incredibly durable. I’ve had four Mercedes, and every one of them held up remarkably well. I love the seats in my car, as well as fit and finish of the other interior aspects, so I definitely agree. However, I did find the Tesla front seats to be comfortable, and there is something to be said about the minimalist aspect of the Tesla interior. If they dressed it up a bit, it certainly would make it a nicer place to be though.

 

[Petrocelli]

All potential Tesla owners should watch this video which discusses "Mercedes Leather."

 

[BZM3]

I am finally getting to the point that I am going to order a 3 soon. I drove the RWD, and it ticked all the boxes except handling. Don’t get me wrong, I loved driving the 3, but coming from an E Class, I feel like it is less sure footed. With that said, has anyone bought a 3 and sold their W212 E Class? Which model did you buy? Also, does the AWD offer torque vectoring? Is there a substantial difference in the suspension setup between the Model 3 variants, or are they all the same? Thanks in advance!

super surprised you feel that the E350 is more sure footed than the model 3

 

[GregD60]

So I’ve test driven the SR+ RWD and the Performance. They didn’t have the ER AWD when I was scheduled to drive it. The SR+ RWD seems like a good commuter, but it was somewhat lacking. They gave me the performance model, and set it on chill mode, and told me it would be like the ER AWD. It felt slower than the SR+ RWD, so I put it in normal mode. Sweet mother of God! I have driven twin turbo Porsches, and Ferraris with 400-550hp that feel slow compared to the performance model 3. It was insane from 40-60.

Getting back into my Benz, I felt like I was stepping back in time, and that it was slow. So, I’m now going to reschedule to drive an ER AWD. Has anyone driven all three and opted for the ER AWD? Is the handling as good as the performance? Does acceleration still make you giggle without fear of getting your license revoked?

The Model 3 Performance in chill mode is much slower and less responsive than the regular AWD in standard mode. Almost all of the difference in acceleration between the Performance and regular AWD model is under 70 MPH, and it's about a 1 second difference, so low 3s 0-60 compared to low 4s 0-60. After 70 MPH, the two are virtually identical. For handling, the Performance comes with Michelin PS4S tires which are among the very best handling street tires made, the regular AWD comes with Michelin Primacy MXM4s which are okay, but nothing special. The AWD still handles very well showing a very well sorted chassis and the low center of gravity, but the tires just don't have the level of grip of the Performance.

 

[tvad]

The Model 3 Performance in chill mode is much slower and less responsive than the regular AWD in standard mode. Almost all of the difference in acceleration between the Performance and regular AWD model is under 70 MPH, and it's about a 1 second difference, so low 3s 0-60 compared to low 4s 0-60. After 70 MPH, the two are virtually identical. For handling, the Performance comes with Michelin PS4S tires which are among the very best handling street tires made, the regular AWD comes with Michelin Primacy MXM4s which are okay, but nothing special. The AWD still handles very well showing a very well sorted chassis and the low center of gravity, but the tires just don't have the level of grip of the Performance.

So, one could install Michelin MXM4 tires on the AWD for under $1000, and achieve the handling of a Performance.

Edit: Should be PS4S not MXM4

 

[GregD60]

So, one could install Michelin MXM4 tires on the AWD for under $1000, and achieve the handling of a Performance.

I think you meant to say install Michelin PS4S not MXM4 on the AWD. If so, I would say that you'll get about 90% of the handling improvement of the entire Performance package, but the Performance will still be a bit better due to being slightly lower and lower profile tires. The difference is small according to other people who have done this.

I'd say that the big improvements that come with the Performance package, besides the 1 second quicker time to 60, are more track than street related due to the bigger brakes and track mode. If you want to track the car or go autobahn running, the Performance model would be a very, VERY good idea. For the street, the regular AWD will still out accelerate and outperform over 99% of the cars out there in the real world.

 

[TexasGator]

So, one could install Michelin MXM4 tires on the AWD for under $1000, and achieve the handling of a Performance.

you mean PS4S - and yes

 

[GregD60]

A friend of mine once asked me how I'd describe the acceleration of the various Teslas that I'd driven. Here's what I said.

Model 3 LR RWD - Nice!
Model 3 LR AWD - YES!!
Model 3 Performance - Holy ****!!!
Model S P100D ludicrous - OMG!!!! And if you're not ready for it - Ouch!

 

[tvad]

I think you meant to say install Michelin PS4S not MXM4 on the AWD.

Correct. So many letters and numbers.

 

[GregD60]

Here's a link to where an AWD and a Performance were both dyno'd in standard and chill mode on the same dyno - 2018 Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor vs. Performance Dyno Results

And above is the dyno chart from that. The yellow and green traces are chill mode on the performance and AWD models and are nearly identical, and much lower than the AWD in standard mode which is the reddish trace and the Performance which is the blue trace.

 

[SammichLover]

So, one could install Michelin MXM4 tires on the AWD for under $1000, and achieve the handling of a Performance.

Edit: Should be PS4S not MXM4

I have done exactly this, in 18", and the difference is absolutely stunning. Especially on wet pavement and standing water. With the bonus that unlike the Tesla custom 20" PS4S tires and rims, putting standard 18" Michelin PS4S on the Aero rims costs very little range.

I can't compare the handling to the P though, as I've never driven a P.

P.S. Extra bonus is that I've gotten more miles already out of the PS4S tires than I got out of the MXM4s.

 

[Kado]

Kado

The AC on the Tesla is better than any other car I've driven and is only surpassed by *new* jets with air cycle machines. The AC is instant on, has plenty of flow and you direct a good amount of flow to the back seat. You do have to command the valves to supply the rear vents. The flow to the back is not on by default.

In very humid environs, like Houston, I suspect a M3 will fall victim to mold near the evaporator coil. All cars (and airplanes, ships, houses, etc ...) can do this since there is mold in our environment and it's just a fact of life on Earth. We have not had any problems in Georgia thus far, but the condensation coming off this very effective AC system is sometimes a steady stream and I've twice checked to see if the water was something else. Web board rumors are that the car now has a software function to dry the evaporator in certain conditions and it does seem something like that is going on when you lock the car and can hear it whirring away at something.

We did have a little moldy smell in the W212, but a shot of Lysol at the evaporator and new Charcoal filters fixed it. Never had a problem with the W210, but the air is inadequate to the back of the wagon in all E Class cars.

Yup, you definitely have owned a w212 in Texas. Lol. I’m about to run cleaner on my a/c and dry the evaporator coil. As for the Tesla, I think the employee who took us on the test drive didn’t know about that. I can certainly say that I was more than comfortable in the drivers seat.