Mercedes EQS reviews published - longest range and most luxurious ride of all EVs?

[rxlawdude]

Their testing that they do for this leaderboard uses a consistent methodology across all cars. I don't see any conspiracy here unless you are accusing them of making up the numbers but that requires a rather large burden of proof.

Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds

Which EVs have the best electric car range? The EPA provides range estimates for every electric vehicle, but they don't test EV range in the real world -- and Edmunds does. Read all the latest real-world EV test results from the Edmunds experts.

www.edmunds.com

They tout mythical ("made up") numbers like EPA range, when you actually test the cars and their own real world data clearly contradict the headline. And they cherry-picked the most expensive Model S for a Pyhrric "comparison."

That's pretty substantial proof, no?

 

[30seconds]

Does Edmunds list the mileage of the Tesla's they test? Since Telsa doesn't give them out (usually) and magazines have to get their Teslas from private parties this could have a pretty significant impact vs. a new low mileage car. The first 5-10% drop is rather quick before loss starts to level out.

 

[orion2001]

They tout mythical ("made up") numbers like EPA range, when you actually test the cars and their own real world data clearly contradict the headline. And they cherry-picked the most expensive Model S for a Pyhrric "comparison."

That's pretty substantial proof, no?

I still don't understand the issue? Tesla is the one that markets all it's vehicles using EPA range no? And while Edmunds aren't putting vehicles on a Dyno, they are trying to do a similar mix of city and highway driving. If your argument is that their tests on Tesla cars not matching the EPA range isn't a big deal because their test isn't "exactly" the EPA test, that's fine and I won't really argue that point. But that's missing the forest for the trees in a sense because under exactly the same kind of testing conditions, other cars with lower rated ranges end up fairing better than the Tesla cars. This is consistent across all manufacturers and Tesla is the only one that consistently falls short compared to their marketed range numbers. So this is still a big deal and highlights that Tesla has been gaming the range numbers for "bragging rights" compared to most of the competition.

At the end of the day, all that should matter is that when all these cars are tested under near identical conditions in the real world, a lot of the competition does better than Tesla cars even though "on paper" the Tesla cars are always touted to be the most efficient and have the best range. I think that is notable and I don't really see where any bias comes into it?

 

[rxlawdude]

I still don't understand the issue? Tesla is the one that markets all it's vehicles using EPA range no? And while Edmunds aren't putting vehicles on a Dyno, they are trying to do a similar mix of city and highway driving. If your argument is that their tests on Tesla cars not matching the EPA range isn't a big deal because their test isn't "exactly" the EPA test, that's fine and I won't really argue that point. But that's missing the forest for the trees in a sense because under exactly the same kind of testing conditions, other cars with lower rated ranges end up fairing better than the Tesla cars. This is consistent across all manufacturers and Tesla is the only one that consistently falls short compared to their marketed range numbers. So this is still a big deal and highlights that Tesla has been gaming the range numbers for "bragging rights" compared to most of the competition.

At the end of the day, all that should matter is that when all these cars are tested under near identical conditions in the real world, a lot of the competition does better than Tesla cars even though "on paper" the Tesla cars are always touted to be the most efficient and have the best range. I think that is notable and I don't really see where any bias comes into it?

It's like the article a few days ago that opined cold weather reduced range (all EVs affected) equates to poor reliability. You probably agree, but that means you agree that EPA estimates for EVs tend to be wildly optimistic.

Again, Edmunds chose to compare the fastest, most expensive Model S against a base price Mercedes.
Mercedes is an advertiser on Edmunds.com. Tesla is not. Edmunds gets nothing from Tesla and $$$ from MB.

Yet you see no journalistic integrity issue? I certainly do.

 

[daktari]

I think some just have to get used to the fact that the lead Tesla had in 2015 is nearly all gone when it comes to the car's capabilities. Attacking the press is a well known strategy if one wants to change opinions on reality.

 

[rxlawdude]

I think some just have to get used to the fact that the lead Tesla had in 2015 is nearly all gone when it comes to the car's capabilities. Attacking the press is a well known strategy if one wants to change opinions on reality.

I think some who have abandoned Tesla may have a higher opinion of the competition than is warranted, but different strokes...

As to losing advantage, come to the US and rent an ID.4 for a 1600 km road trip. Let us know how that goes, and how many new payment accounts you needed for the non-Tesla fast charging companies. Between a maximum charge rate half that of Superchargers, and consistent issues reported with non-functioning stations, you'll see why your opinion is wrong in one of the largest auto markets in the world.

 

[daktari]

I think some who have abandoned Tesla may have a higher opinion of the competition than is warranted, but different strokes...

As to losing advantage, come to the US and rent an ID.4 for a 1600 km road trip. Let us know how that goes, and how many new payment accounts you needed for the non-Tesla fast charging companies. Between a maximum charge rate half that of Superchargers, and consistent issues reported with non-functioning stations, you'll see why your opinion is wrong in one of the largest auto markets in the world.

Here in Europe the case you describe is not really a problem.
Yes Superchargers are definitely the best network, but they will open to all in EU.

I would advise you to test the other brands extensively. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Choice depends more on preference than capabilities.

 

[rxlawdude]

Here in Europe the case you describe is not really a problem.
Yes Superchargers are definitely the best network, but they will open to all in EU.

I would advise you to test the other brands extensively. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Choice depends more on preference than capabilities.

I would advise myself not to test any other brands until and unless DCFC "is not really a problem" with them in the USA.

 

[tm1v2]

I would advise myself not to test any other brands until and unless DCFC "is not really a problem" with them in the USA.

Sadly in the USA this is right. Would've saved me a lot of agonizing back-and-forth in my recent 2nd car purchase decision if I had skipped test driving any non-Tesla EVs. I really liked one of them, we went as far as order placed, deposit made, car built and assigned with a real delivery ETA...and had to cancel because we knew ultimately we'd hate the experience of road tripping in it (which we do a lot of). Instead we bought a 2nd Tesla, and we're both very glad we did.

The EQS seems like the nicest, most comfy EV yet for road trips (ignoring the awkward looks), but in the USA it's a dud in my mind due to the non-Tesla DC fast charging situation here.

 

[daktari]

I would advise myself not to test any other brands until and unless DCFC "is not really a problem" with them in the USA.

Hope the US get there soon!

 

[stcptl]

Sadly in the USA this is right. Would've saved me a lot of agonizing back-and-forth in my recent 2nd car purchase decision if I had skipped test driving any non-Tesla EVs. I really liked one of them, we went as far as order placed, deposit made, car built and assigned with a real delivery ETA...and had to cancel because we knew ultimately we'd hate the experience of road tripping in it (which we do a lot of). Instead we bought a 2nd Tesla, and we're both very glad we did.

The EQS seems like the nicest, most comfy EV yet for road trips (ignoring the awkward looks), but in the USA it's a dud in my mind due to the non-Tesla DC fast charging situation here.

Non-Tesla DC fast chargers are growing at a rapid clip and Supercharger network will be opened up too. The charging infrastructure should be adequate in most places in ~2 to 3 years. No car company has their own gas stations and the third party gas infrastructure took time to build out as well.

But I agree with your assessment, the EQS is likely a sales dud, not appealing to a lot of folks as most people prefer the Tesla brand and are more drawn to performance over opulent luxury. Plus EQS is pretty expensive and not a looker either IMO.

But EQS is a much better/quieter/smoother car than even the new S-Class? Wow.
All the benefits of EVs!

 

[tm1v2]

Non-Tesla DC fast chargers are growing at a rapid clip and Supercharger network will be opened up too. The charging infrastructure should be adequate in most places in ~2 to 3 years. No car company has their own gas stations and the third party gas infrastructure took time to build out as well.

But I agree with your assessment, the EQS is likely a sales dud, not appealing to a lot of folks as most people prefer the Tesla brand and are more drawn to performance over opulent luxury. Plus EQS is pretty expensive and not a looker either IMO.

But EQS is a much better/quieter/smoother car than even the new S-Class? Wow.
All the benefits of EVs!

I hope it's better in 2-3 years! It's not just coverage though, the whole payment and compatibility and outages and bugs mess looks real bad from the outside. We have no tolerance for that since we're used to superchargers that Just Work 98% of the time.

 

[stcptl]

I hope it's better in 2-3 years! It's not just coverage though, the whole payment and compatibility and outages and bugs mess looks real bad from the outside. We have no tolerance for that since we're used to superchargers that Just Work 98% of the time.

Absolutely, the Tesla charging experience is excellent and I imagine far superior to 3rd party right now. I’ve only ever had issues twice over 3 years, so even better than 98% I would assume and I haven’t seen any evidence of widespread issues! Here’s hoping these 3rd party charger kinks and outages will be worked out when there are a lot more EV drivers using them and expecting better. We usually don’t have to worry about gas pumps being out of order so why should DC chargers be any different.

Regarding payments, I’ve heard of these integrated “passes” etc built into the vehicles that supposedly allow similar automatic payments but not sure of the details. Over time the charging experience will have to be at least of an acceptable quality. When/if it will be as seamless as Tesla’s, I don’t know.

 

[dipper]

For me, supercharger is probably not important.

I have no problem in my garage no matter what brand of EV charging.

So if Merc gives me an EQS and forced me to own it, sure... I take it.

 

[stcptl]

For me, supercharger is probably not important.

I have no problem in my garage no matter what brand of EV charging.

So if Merc gives me an EQS and forced me to own it, sure... I take it.

If Merc gave me an EQS and FORCED me to keep it, I guess I might keep it too

 

[daktari]

Absolutely, the Tesla charging experience is excellent and I imagine far superior to 3rd party right now. I’ve only ever had issues twice over 3 years, so even better than 98% I would assume and I haven’t seen any evidence of widespread issues! Here’s hoping these 3rd party charger kinks and outages will be worked out when there are a lot more EV drivers using them and expecting better. We usually don’t have to worry about gas pumps being out of order so why should DC chargers be any different.

Regarding payments, I’ve heard of these integrated “passes” etc built into the vehicles that supposedly allow similar automatic payments but not sure of the details. Over time the charging experience will have to be at least of an acceptable quality. When/if it will be as seamless as Tesla’s, I don’t know.

Plug&charge, an ISO standard for automatic payment, initiating via CCS.

 

[tm1v2]

Plug&charge, an ISO standard for automatic payment, initiating via CCS.

Yes! I'm excited for Plug & Charge (ISO 15118) to eventually become standard on every EV and every paid public charger. The non-Tesla EV I almost bought (not EQS) sadly doesn't support it though. I kept asking the sales team to escalate and find out if they had any plans they could share, but nope, nothing, no promise that the car I was buying would ever support it. I couldn't accept that after reading endless horror stories of payment problems at buggy public chargers in this country.

There is also a public fast charging gap in an area I drive in regularly. I asked EA if they have plans to expand in that area, they actually replied but couldn't/wouldn't share anything useful. There's lots of L2 charging in the area, no risk of getting stranded, but I'd sure be kicking myself if I was ever stuck at an L2 charger when I could've been Supercharging a Tesla instead.

I want to see new-to-EV makers announce DC fast charging investments alongside their shiny new EVs. VW obviously has (EA), only because our government forced them though. Rivian is planning to, and they're smartly focusing on the gaps in the current networks (no not just trail heads). C'mon Mercedes, GM, Ford, Geely/Polestar/Volvo, et al...where's the fast charging investment to show you're really serious about this??

 

[daktari]

Winter range test. 1000 km challenge coming soon.
The interesting part here is that Bjørn runs nominal tire pressure on the EQS at high 30ies psi, 21". Model S though with 19", at 400 kg lighter has nominal tire pressure at 45 psi and 42 psi with 21" wheels. Why does Tesla need that high tire pressure? Well it helps consumption but increases noise and reduce comfort.
Apart from that, my experience with Model S in a full winter was similar or higher consumption than in this test. EQS is o.n the right track here.

 

[RobDickinson]

fat inefficient pig you mean?

 

[daktari]

Well it drove 1000 km challenge in sub zero temps, winter tires 21" 38 psi, at just 30ish minutes slower than S raven in summer temp, summer tires @
19" 45 psi.
Pretty decent I would say.