Mercedes reportedly working on a bespoke EV architecture

[litesong]

MB has luxuriousness and comfort down....

..... Mercedes will launch a car that's competitive with Tesla models that are five years old......

dom

five years from now, a great car company, Mercedes, will be building what Tesla is making now......

.....they have R&D on electric drivetrains......This is a good decision by MB.....

I agree with ItsNotAboutTheMoney. RedBull dominated Formula 1 racing....... till last year, when rules changes introduced electronically controlled turbo engines & major upgrades were commanded for battery energy regenerative systems. MB crushed all other manufacturers, supremely dealing with last year's major shifts of technology. Anyone demeaning MB is probably......... a Tesla Fan......ha ha ha

 

[Jaff]

I don't know about this... Although in the past, auto racing in many forms, from NASCAR to Formula 1, provided huge advancements in ICE technology and it's peripherals, I don't see racing providing nearly the same amount, nor the same quality of important of "advancements" to electric motors and batteries...far less moving parts for BEVs...just my opinion though...

 

[litesong]

I don't see racing providing nearly........ the "advancements" to electric motors and batteries...far less moving parts for BEVs...just my opinion though...

Boeing discovered quickly the limitations of technology in their 787 advanced battery failures. Fortunately, no 787's were lost.
Another activity, discovering limits to interfaces between genius ideas & the real-world, is racing. Several sons of past Formula 1 racing legends, & manufacturers, Renault, BMW, Michelin, Williams, McLaren, & Hewland are involved in Formula E electric car series & they all look forward to the second season of "Formula E". I look forward to the accelerated discovery of workable blends of electric efficiency & reliability. Meanwhile........ Renault-one, BMW-one, Michelin-one, Williams-one, McLaren-one, Hewland-one, & Mercedes-one.

 

[arondaniel]

They will make it fit with their credo "the best or nothing" (silly, I agree.)

Guten abend. I don't think that credo is silly but I do see it and "The ultimate driving machine", "Vorsprung durch Teknik", etc. as a potential problem.

My meaning is, German sedan buyers are not accustomed to 2nd best, and Tesla has set the bar very high. They can't be "the best" and charge at 20kW by the back door of the dealership...

 

[MartinAustin]

The quoted Autobild article does not say bespoke, just the WorldCarFans site making stuff up. It's simply Mercedes' first design that is designed from the ground up to be an electric car - unlike the SLS ED (which I agree is an awesome car, but appears to have never shipped).

Tesla started work on their first car that was designed from the ground up to be electric in, what, 2009? And shipped it in 2012. Which would put Mercedes 7 or 8 years behind.

Mercedes will probably leap to the top of the pile when it comes to "electric car with a nice interior" though - Tesla is sadly lacking a long list of basic interior features found on all normal cars, and they haven't produced a decent luxury seat yet. Which doesn't stop me from loving my car - but Tesla will simply have reference interior build quality to aspire to. It has 5 years to improve toward that goal, which gives them a decent chance

Elon's basic goal will still be closer - more manufacturers producing more battery-electric cars. Mercedes buyers will let Mercedes know if they need to manufacture less oil-burning cars

 

[Phil Seastrand]

We've heard reports that the big three US auto makers have essentially outsourced all their car development except the engine design. How are the big German automakers faring in this area? Do BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc., outsource any of their car development and/or manufacturing or are they largely in-house?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

We've heard reports that the big three US auto makers have essentially outsourced all their car development except the engine design. How are the big German automakers faring in this area? Do BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc., outsource any of their car development and/or manufacturing or are they largely in-house?

At least a lot of parts in Europe come from third parties, so engines is the one big in-house thing in Europe too - another is materials, e.g. Audi's aluminium efforts and BMW's carbon fiber. I don't know how this would compare to the U.S., but a lot of the electronics in German cars certainly come from the likes of Bosch and other third parties. Factories where cars are assembled, of course, Audi, BMW, Mercedes etc. own and run themselves. The investment in in-house ICE expertise is quite likely a major slowing-down factor for EV work in Europe. There's a lot invested in pinching off gallons from miles, but a lot less invested in removing the gallons altogether.

As for the other commentary in the thread, coming from maxed out German luxury and premium cars, I get it what people mean when they say Tesla is missing some things. One area is the one AutoPilot is aiming to fix, the other are interior comforts like seat massage, rear-seat entertainment, television, on-board fridges, electric rear seats etc., third are the customization services Germans provide probably more readily than Tesla at this point can. Tesla also misses long wheelbase options, so important in some markets and market segments.

But even some of those limitations of Model S are greatly offset by the large screens in the dash. Even the latest and greatest from the Germans seem so antiquated compared to Tesla's electronic controls, much of their glitz is quickly forgotten at least on the drivers seat. I wrote a few words about this in the past on TMC compared it to how the original iPhone was quite spartan, yet already so much greater...

There is more to Tesla than just the revolutionary drivetrain and the luggage hauling qualities it allows. The upgradeable, super-modern user-interface/car systems is another.

 

[Jaff]

Time will tell I guess...I would agree with your comments with respect to the ICE world, but am just saying I don't think the racing world will be as influential in the EV world as they were / are in the ICE world...

Boeing discovered quickly the limitations of technology in their 787 advanced battery failures. Fortunately, no 787's were lost.
Another activity, discovering limits to interfaces between genius ideas & the real-world, is racing. Several sons of past Formula 1 racing legends, & manufacturers, Renault, BMW, Michelin, Williams, McLaren, & Hewland are involved in Formula E electric car series & they all look forward to the second season of "Formula E". I look forward to the accelerated discovery of workable blends of electric efficiency & reliability. Meanwhile........ Renault-one, BMW-one, Michelin-one, Williams-one, McLaren-one, Hewland-one, & Mercedes-one.

 

[peet365]

this is just a reality in car industry. If you want to build a new platform it will take you 5-6 years. Tesla showed other producers that EV concept can sell lots of cars. They were watching market acceptance of Tesla and somewhere in the middle - end of 2013 they could see that pure EV might be succesfull, so they decided they will build a new platform.
Musk was maybe hoping for much faster action from big automakers, but he still achieved that there will be other compelling pure ev cars on the market by 2020.
IMHO Tesla will produce max 500-700k cars in 2020. It is expected that car market will be around 85-100 millions, so there will be huge market for compelling EV cars in 2020. Maybe Tesla will not have a luxury to increase price anytime they want, but if they will succeed with introduction of model 3 and will have 2nd or maybe 3rd generation of model S/X on a market they will do just fine regardless of what Mercedes, Lexus, BMW and Audi will do.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

We've heard reports that the big three US auto makers have essentially outsourced all their car development except the engine design. How are the big German automakers faring in this area? Do BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc., outsource any of their car development and/or manufacturing or are they largely in-house?

At least for electrification, GM is insourcing and moving development and manufacturing to Michigan. They insourced IT and that's located in the Texas triangle. They use LG cells, but they have some pretty intensive battery development. They designed and will manufactured their Voltec transmission and motor units.

 

[MartinAustin]

I take my comments about Mercedes and luxury seats back!!!

2015 Mercedes C-Class owners reporting bleeding seats [UPDATE]