Michelin Crossclimate2 in snow: as good as putting on tire cables?

[eethan]

My RWD M3 is going to the best ski resorts in Utah, Colorado, and Wyoming this season!

Anything to pay attention to driving in snow and ice? At what point should I be putting on snow chains?

(fyi - CC2 gets the snowflake (3PMSF) symbol normally assigned to snow tires. And reviews compare the CC2 to snow tires. Considering this is an all-season tire that performs respectably in dry California, I find all this almost too good to be true!)

 

[hgmichna]

In tests these tires, as well as similar ones from other manufacturers, mix in well with dedicated winter tires. They are just as good.

They are a little bit weaker in a hot summer, so you should take into account that you need a few more yards to get the car to a complete stop.

Even the best winter tire needs snow chains in deep snow uphill or downhill driving. When you go to a ski resort, have the chains ready and know how to put them on.

 

[Lindenwood]

You would need a good air pump to get back on the highway, but in my experience you can also drop tire pressures commensurate with speed reduction. For highway driving you might only drop a few pounds, but for those last few miles up to the slopes I personally wouldn’t be afraid of much lower. In my 3600lb RAV4 I would regularly go down to 24 PSI (admittedly with much more sidewall) and the difference was significant.

 

[threeputts]

My subjective conclusion is that the CC2s which I currently have on my M3 are good in snow but the X-Ice tires I used to have on my Bolt are better in snow. If I had a RWD instead of a LR or if I lived in a snowier climate I would run two sets of rims/tires.

 

[XPsionic]

Cross climate 2 is great but still not as good as X Ice (no surprise there really). So it's obviously much worse than tire chains/cables in very deep snow.
I wouldn't use chains unless there's more than 6" of unplowed snow/ruts (for a RWD, I'd go as deep as 9-10" for AWD) + lots of uphill section + speed lower than 20 mph.

@eethan what sort of tire *cables* do you have? If they're not a set of sturdy tire chains, chances are fairly high that they'll either 1. not do much for traction 2. snap and fly right off with any sort of speed/wheel spin.

 

[eethan]

Thanks all for your tips.

I have the Pewag RSS 76 chains sold by Tesla. I also have a portable air pump, but I won't drop my tire pressure if I can otherwise put on chains.

If the CC2 is good with 6" unplowed snow + lots of uphill + speed lower than 20mph, that covers the vast majority of morning trips to ski resorts. If there is 7" or more of unplowed snow, that sounds like storm conditions, and the lifts may not even be open.

 

[XPsionic]

Thanks all for your tips.

I have the Pewag RSS 76 chains sold by Tesla. I also have a portable air pump, but I won't drop my tire pressure if I can otherwise put on chains.

If the CC2 is good with 6" unplowed snow + lots of uphill + speed lower than 20mph, that covers the vast majority of morning trips to ski resorts. If there is 7" or more of unplowed snow, that sounds like storm conditions, and the lifts may not even be open.

The ccs2 on a rwd and 6" of fresh snow on the road would be at their limit if the road is flat. There's no way the car would make it up any real incline if there's that much snow. However once the snow is packed down and it's not very slushy or icy, or if it's been plowed fairly recently, it'll be fine.

As always in a rwd in the winter, keep your distance to the car ahead of you and avoid stopping completely wherever possible. Roll slowly, but try to never stop if you see deep snow or icy patches ahead. It can be extremely difficult to get going again on inclines once stopped, but at the same time it can be surprising how far you could get if you can keep momentum up.

Also try to back into parking spots and avoid spots with inclines when possible.

 

[eethan]

Thanks for the tips. I put them into my note folder.

Also, as temperatures drop to 30 degrees, my tire pressure is running 41psi while driving on the freeway. I will keep them at this pressure since @Lindenwood suggested that slightly lower pressure offers better traction.

 

[Lindenwood]

Thanks for the tips. I put them into my note folder.

Also, as temperatures drop to 30 degrees, my tire pressure is running 41psi while driving on the freeway. I will keep them at this pressure since @Lindenwood suggested that slightly lower pressure offers better traction.

Elon has confirmed running factory tires at 38 PSI is perfectly safe, so if you are concerned with winter traction I would start there and maybe drop a few more pounds for the lower-speed sections (I.e. the cabin to the lifts, where speeds might only hit 40-45mph).

 

[hgmichna]

Elon has confirmed running factory tires at 38 PSI is perfectly safe

38 PSI = 2.62 bar. That's very close to the point where the car begins to warn of too low tire pressure.

I agree though that in winter, with wet, snowy, or icy roads tire wear is reduced along with the grip. It would perhaps be a good idea to reduce tire pressure in winter, except when you drive longer distances at high speeds on dry roads. That makes it inconvenient, because unlike some military vehicles, our Teslas lack the ability to change tire pressure while driving.

Because of this inconvenience I personally will stick to the prescribed, manufacturer-recommended tire pressure throughout the year, meaning that I have to pump up a couple times in fall and reduce pressure a couple times in spring, as the outside air temperature changes.

 

[tm1v2]

Elon has confirmed running factory tires at 38 PSI is perfectly safe, so if you are concerned with winter traction I would start there and maybe drop a few more pounds for the lower-speed sections (I.e. the cabin to the lifts, where speeds might only hit 40-45mph).

@eethan In my own experimenting with 245/45R18 Bridgestone Potenza Sport 300TW summer tires on 18x8.5" wheels, I found 39 PSI cold, or thereabouts, to feel pretty ideal all-around on the street (covering dry and wet, but obviously no freezing weather with those tires). I came to that conclusion on my own before finding out about Elon's tweet recommending 39 PSI - so basically I agree with Elon's recommendation on this.

The door sticker 42 PSI cold is alright but feels a bit too eco-focused when driving hard through the twisties and getting some good heat in the tires.

For some reason Tesla service and some tire shops like to inflate my M3P to 45 PSI cold despite the door sticker saying 42 PSI. I can say 45 PSI cold is clearly overinflated.

I just switched to 500 TW UHP allseasons in the same size. Will play around with pressures a bit to see what I like with them.

 

[hgmichna]

I do not recommend under-inflation for long-distance drives because of higher energy consumption, hence shorter range, and because of higher tire wear.

I would consider under-inflation for shorter drives on wet or snowy roads.

I also do not recommend over-inflation, as I suppose that the tire manufacturer knows very well what's best from their own tests. After all, they design and make the tires.

 

[eethan]

Ok, so not wanting to adjust tire pressures several times driving between city and mountain, the ideal cold tire pressure range is 38 psi (comfort) to 42 psi (efficiency) !

The CA Costcos have self-serve air machines that pump to your desired psi. Do you guys also prefer going to Costco to pump air?

 

[XPsionic]

Ok, so not wanting to adjust tire pressures several times driving between city and mountain, the ideal cold tire pressure range is 38 psi (comfort) to 42 psi (efficiency) !

The CA Costcos have self-serve air machines that pump to your desired psi. Do you guys also prefer going to Costco to pump air?

38 sounds good.
I keep a $30 air pump in the car, mine takes like 30 seconds to top up 4-5 psi, can't be arsed to go find pumps/line up/pay, plus if I ever get a slow leak on the road I could at least try to pump it up and try to get to a shop.

 

[tm1v2]

Ok, so not wanting to adjust tire pressures several times driving between city and mountain, the ideal cold tire pressure range is 38 psi (comfort) to 42 psi (efficiency) !

@eethan Keep an eye on how much your warmed up tire pressures drop between city and mountains, just from the ambient temperature drop.

E.g. if that drop is 2-3 PSI, then I would suggest 41-42 PSI cold in the city, so that your pressures don't drop too low up in the mountains from the colder weather there.

Of course what's best is really up to you, and can vary based on the tire, and the conditions. On actual snow or ice, going a bit extra low can be useful! But not so great on pavement usually - and I assume much of the time, you'll be driving on plowed or melted roads even in the mountains.

The CA Costcos have self-serve air machines that pump to your desired psi. Do you guys also prefer going to Costco to pump air?

For consistency pick one tire gauge - that you own! - and always use it to set your temps. Even if your gauge isn't calibrated super accurate, as long as whatever you're setting it to is consistent and feels good to you, then it's good.

Most gauges you'll come across don't have any real guarantee as to their calibration. Which is normally fine, just pick one gauge to trust (even if it's off, so long as it's consistent), adjust based on what feels good to you, and then keep using that gauge to consistently achieve the same pressures.

Plus, setting cold temps is best done at home after being parked overnight.

Note that direct sunlight can absolutely heat up the air in a tire. E.g. even if the car's been sitting for a while, if the tires on one side are in the sun, it will NOT have consistent or fully cold tire temps!

 

[tm1v2]

38 sounds good.
I keep a $30 air pump in the car, mine takes like 30 seconds to top up 4-5 psi, can't be arsed to go find pumps/line up/pay, plus if I ever get a slow leak on the road I could at least try to pump it up and try to get to a shop.

@eethan I agree with @XPsionic on keeping a portable air pump in the car.

There are a zillion to choose from these days (and I'm sure in some cases, there are the same basic pumps being sold under multiple brands).

I have two of these, one in each car (each Tesla! ).
https://www.amazon.com/TEROMAS-Inflator-Compressor-Portable-Inflatables/dp/B07W1W2V9M/

They've worked well for me and I like them because:
1) They work with 12V DC from the car or 120V from the house, so I can use them for things around the house too.
2) Small and light. (So no they don't seem heavy duty, but I don't need heavy duty. If I was buying for my roadside assistance business or something I'd definitely get heavier duty.)
3) Relatively quiet as these things go. (All of these pumps are loud in my experience, but I've had much louder ones.)
4) Includes a digital gauge (only 0.5 PSI increment tho) and automatic stop feature. IMPORTANT: The auto-stop is not super consistent, varies by 0.5 PSI easily, but it's still useful to make sure you don't wildly overinflate if you zone out holding the button. Use a separate more accurate gauge to actually dial in your exact pressures!
5) So far no issues / no failures. The older one I've had for a bunch of years now, the newer one for a year since getting our Model 3.

I have used one of them to inflate a 245/45R19 car tire from fully flat once (obviously got that tire replaced ASAP afterwards), so they are heavy duty enough for that job, at least.

I've also used them to inflate very high volume but low pressure stuff in the house without issue (think giant bicycle tube, but not constrained inside any kind of tire).

 

[hgmichna]

An additional advantage of having a small pump on board is that you may be able to reach a tire workshop with a slow puncture, by repeatedly pumping up along the way.

I also have one that works with 12 V. I've tried several. I agree that the automatic pressure switch-off is imprecise. I believe all of these pumps use exactly the same low-quality, Chinese-designed sensor and electronics.

Pumps with built-in rechargeable battery are rather useless, because the battery doesn't last long enough to fill two or even just one tire. Once it is empty, you are helpless, because charging takes too long. And you have to worry about keeping it charged. Better use 12 V from the car.

I know a few gas stations in my vicinity that have automatic digital air pumps. I use these when I have to modify tire pressure.

As to driving up the mountains, I would not increase tire pressure beyond the recommended value. Consider that a reduced tire pressure, by something like 3 PSI, is good on wet or snowy roads and anyway for short trips.

 

[eethan]

I got this one a while ago and have forgotten it's in my subtrunk!

Gotta remind myself to use it when my car is supercharging.

 

[eethan]

We got a couple inches last night in Steamboat springs and the roads were plowed through by 8am. Road surface was flat and hard, if not icy. I was surprised that my RWD drifted sideways 1-2 ft when making a right-turn, although it quickly corrected. Driving slowly on a circular road was fine.

Next week, we are getting up to 5" of snow during the day. As long as the road's plowed, I think it will be fine driving CO-82 (1 lane each way) to Aspen Snowmass.

 

[Tesery]

My RWD M3 is going to the best ski resorts in Utah, Colorado, and Wyoming this season!

Anything to pay attention to driving in snow and ice? At what point should I be putting on snow chains?

(fyi - CC2 gets the snowflake (3PMSF) symbol normally assigned to snow tires. And reviews compare the CC2 to snow tires. Considering this is an all-season tire that performs respectably in dry California, I find all this almost too good to be true!)

Sounds like an exciting trip! Driving to ski resorts in Utah, Colorado, and Wyoming with your RWD M3 can be an amazing experience. When it comes to handling snow and ice:

1. Check your tires: The fact that your CC2 tires come with the snowflake (3PMSF) symbol is a great start. They're designed for winter conditions. However, even the best tires have limits, so always ensure they are in good condition before the trip.
2. Driving cautiously: Despite your tires, snow and ice demand careful driving. Gentle acceleration, deceleration, and smooth steering are crucial.
3. Knowing when to use snow chains: Even with all-season tires, conditions can get tough. It's advisable to carry snow chains, especially for mountainous areas. If you start to feel a loss of traction or encounter icy conditions, it's time to consider putting on your snow chains.

TESERY provides reliable Snow Chains for Tesla Model 3. Check them out here. They offer excellent traction and are easy to install. Safe travels and enjoy your skiing adventure!