Minimum tile weight for install

[rando]

After waiting nearly two months since signing my agreemnt, Tesla installers came and left on Tuesday without installing my 12.24kw + two Powerwall system. Apparently if your tile weighs less than 9lbs, they aren't allowed to install due to concern that they will break too many.

Tesla offered to re-roof the portion under the solar with composite for $15k! My concrete tile roof and underlying structure are only 3 years old so obviously this wrecks the economics of the deal. It's unfortunately they chose (despite me asking repeatedly) not to do a physical site survey which could have identified this concern months ago, saving me wasted time and them the cost of design, permitting and rolling a 6 man crew to stand around for a few hours.

Has anyone else ran into this issue? Were you able to resolve it short of re-roofing?

It seems my only choice is to pick a different solar installer.

 

[cridinger82]

that's slightly concerning... i have an install scheduled for next wednesday on our Concrete tile roof. They did do a site inspection but didn't get on the roof, because a neighbor down the street had the same house which was done by Tesla a year before. He stated since it was the same there, that he didn't need to get on the roof.

 

[SoCal Dave]

Sorry Rando.

Would it be worth talking to a roofer to get a different bid?

Based on other reports here, if you go with a different solar installer, they are having a hard time getting Powerwalls. So that might delay your project significantly.

 

[SoCal Dave]

that's slightly concerning... i have an install scheduled for next wednesday on our Concrete tile roof. They did do a site inspection but didn't get on the roof, because a neighbor down the street had the same house which was done by Tesla a year before. He stated since it was the same there, that he didn't need to get on the roof.

Most concrete tiles are fine. My house was a concrete tile roof.

 

[jboy210]

I understand their reticence. We had a lightweight tile roof put on 12 years ago and many of the tiles had been cracked. Some from age and some from our remodeling over the last few years. So when we looked at solar we had to look at new roof + solar bids.

 

[SoCalSteve]

This is exactly what happened to me which I documented in another thread. My concrete tile weighs 7.8 lbs. They said it's too light and suggested a reroof for the portion of the roof where the panels would be installed at a cost of $7K. My roof is only 5 years old and I have a ton of spare tiles, but they weren't swayed. Actually, my rep just struck to the script and said I would have to agree to the $7K reroof to proceed; perhaps I could have escalated but didn't want to deal with the uncertainty.

BTW, this was during the site visit which occurred 2 weeks after I paid the $100. I'm thankful that they agreed to do the site visit and didn't get strung along like you did. I can understand why they aren't flexible about this (keep it cheap and cookie cutter) but they could have saved a lot of trouble for me and others by just saying "we don't install on lightweight concrete tile". I've seen gone with a local installer and close to getting permits approved now.

Interestingly, as I mentioned in my thread, they actually went ahead and submitted permits to my city before even getting my approval for the reroof! I had to call up my city and get the approved permit canceled so that my new installer could submit the new permit!

 

[jboy210]

This is exactly what happened to me which I documented in another thread. My concrete tile weighs 7.8 lbs. They said it's too light and suggested a reroof for the portion of the roof where the panels would be installed at a cost of $7K. My roof is only 5 years old and I have a ton of spare tiles, but they weren't swayed. Actually, my rep just struck to the script and said I would have to agree to the $7K reroof to proceed; perhaps I could have escalated but didn't want to deal with the uncertainty.

BTW, this was during the site visit which occurred 2 weeks after I paid the $100. I'm thankful that they agreed to do the site visit and didn't get strung along like you did. I can understand why they aren't flexible about this (keep it cheap and cookie cutter) but they could have saved a lot of trouble for me and others by just saying "we don't install on lightweight concrete tile". I've seen gone with a local installer and close to getting permits approved now.

Interestingly, as I mentioned in my thread, they actually went ahead and submitted permits to my city before even getting my approval for the reroof! I had to call up my city and get the approved permit canceled so that my new installer could submit the new permit!

Roofing/solar companies applying for permits early seems to be pretty common.

Before we fully committed to Pertersendean, they had paid for and filed a permit to re-roofing our home. This caused some confusion when we decided to go with Tesla instead, which filed another permit. On final inspection, the city wanted to send out a separate inspector for the roof on the P-D permit, and a different one for the Tesla SolarRoof permit. As the homeowner, I was allowed to cancel the P-D permit and things got back on track after a week or so.

Perhaps this is a way for a roofing company to "mark their territory".

 

[SoCal Dave]

Perhaps this is a way for a roofing company to "mark their territory".

Installer: "We already submitted the city permits so you have go with us."
Owner: "But you only put a flier under my windshield wiper at Home Depot. This is the first time I've talked to you."

 

[cridinger82]

other then them grabbing a tile from your roof and weighing it, i can't imagine they would be able to identify this with any accuracy... i'm not going on my roof to remove a tile to weigh it.. sounds silly.

 

[rando]

I also have a large stack of spares but they also already removed one from my roof as one of the crew was already getting ready to set his safety anchor -- not sure which they ultimately weighed. In looking at my spares (I noticed at least 2 variations, some weighing just over 7lbs and others just over 8lbs. I told them I had more than enough to replace what they might break. The crew agreed it wouldn't be a problem but I guess the mothership told them no.

It's not clear to me that tile weight equates with fragility. A quick online search indicates that below 9lb tile weights are the norm these days (in SoCal) and at least a few of the manufacturers marketing material indicates they are stronger (not weaker) than the older 9lb+ tiles.

I just don't understand them walking away from a $40k job that they've already invested time and money in over something trivial like the 'possibility' of breaking a few extra tiles that I'm already agreeing to supply replacements for.

I declined their re-roof option within seconds so hopefully they don't bother submitting yet another permit for that. Thanks for the heads up that I may need to get their existing permits canceled to move forward with another installer. The area they want re-roofed is about 2000 sqft. I'm sure I can find a roofer to do that in composite for quite a bit less than $15k but even at half that, the deal is wrecked.

Regarding the Powerwalls, perhaps they will rework their existing contract and just do the Powerwall portion of the install. At least from what I've seen from every installer here in Socal, the prices from everyone else on Powerwalls (when/if they can get them) is MUCH higher than directly from Tesla and just about none are able to offer SGIP to make up the difference.

 

[SoCal Dave]

The crew agreed it wouldn't be a problem but I guess the mothership told them no.

The joys of dealing with a large corporation, unfortunately.

They did break a large number of my concrete tiles and so did my roofer. My roofer said they broke about 200 tiles when they redid my underlayment. I was surprised how fragile "normal" concrete tiles are.

 

[cridinger82]

i just checked the website that our tiles are from. They are manufactured by Boral and come in at about 11 lbs a piece. Tesla told me that they don't come on site with any tile. They take photos of the tile you have and if any are broken then the operations team gets involved with scheduling to replace it... slightly nervous about turnaround times to install new tile, but at least the roof is sealed and the tile doesn't actually make anything water tight, but sheds bulk water... so a few missing tiles won't be the end of the world for a week or so...

 

[SoCal Dave]

i just checked the website that our tiles are from. They are manufactured by Boral and come in at about 11 lbs a piece. Tesla told me that they don't come on site with any tile. They take photos of the tile you have and if any are broken then the operations team gets involved with scheduling to replace it... slightly nervous about turnaround times to install new tile, but at least the roof is sealed and the tile doesn't actually make anything water tight, but sheds bulk water... so a few missing tiles won't be the end of the world for a week or so...

Interesting how the rules seem to differ. My installers had one of their side boxes filled with replacement tiles. They replaced everything while they were there.

 

[rando]

Yep, rain and leaking isn't a huge concern here in Socal. My quick search indicates my tiles might have been made by Monier (now owned by Boral).

@SoCal Dave, I've never heard of any tile roof that wasn't prone to breakage if you walk on it. In fact every other installer that provided quotes assumed that would be the case and just included repairing those breaks as part of the cost of doing business. It's interesting that Tesla is willing to eat a loss rather than take a statistical chance. I mean, if they're that worried about, send your smallest lightest weight installers that all understand the proper way to talk on tile. Embrace #metoo and send a crew of 90lb ladies.

 

[Southpasfan]

Just another possible pothole. I actually went out and weighed a tile. Anyway, I am waiting for an install date but in my case Telsa came out and inspected and walked around the roof. Frankly,I'd probably agree to replace any they broke, rather than re-roof.

 

[rando]

I'd agree to do that but that's not an option they seem willing to accept. From a practical standpoint, the labor side of replacing them sort of has to be done by them as any they break under the module area has to get replaced before they set the module and they also don't allow anyone in the work area while their team is around.

 

[SoCalSteve]

A few datapoints that I noticed in my journey with respect to lightweight concrete tile:

1. It's interesting because my highly rated local installer (the one I went with after Tesla spurned me) was a tiny bit nervous about the my lightweight tile as well. During their site visit, I showed the guy one of my spare tiles and he told me that this is lightweight and he would probably break some tiles while walking around there planning the layout. After he was done, he was surprised that the tile didn't break at all and he said it was pretty sturdy.

2. The sales guy also indicated that they might charge me $5/tile to replace the broken tile, despite me supplying the material, because they expected lots of breakage. After the site visit, it appears that I avoided this charge (I hope; haven't done the install yet) since the guy noticed that the tile wasn't as fragile as expected.

3. Two of my energysage quotes had an extra charge for concrete tile (0.10/watt).

This all leads me to believe that solar installers have had trouble with some lightweight tile and just lump anything below 9lb or 10 lbs into this category.

 

[SMAlset]

Don’t forget that Tesla will be providing maintenance for I think at least 10+ years on those panels so there maybe other trips up on the roof down the road they would be committed to and just another reason not to accept the job. Just like they don’t put up solar on roofs with little life left. Our last roof person told me it gets harder to find tiles that are no longer being made and takes time to match with something close.

 

[rando]

That's possibly a great consideration BEFORE they already spent money and resources on design, 2 permits, and 6 man x 2 truck load and roll. By declining the job now, they're trading a possible profit reduction for a guaranteed financial and reputation loss.

 

[SMAlset]

On the other hand people even on here have had their roofs redone for this reason and those with aging roofs. I get yours was on a fairly new roof though. Was this on a new home or a reroofing change? Certainly a concern for people planning a new roof down the road and wanting solar installed.

Let us know if you find a company that will accept your roof tiles.