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Minivan, cross-utility vehicle and a utility van

Discussion in 'Future Cars' started by Tessier, Sep 30, 2009.

  1. Tessier

    Tessier Member

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    Any one else ketch this on Clearing the Air on our DOE loan post on the Tesla website. They explicately state they the model S platform will also be used for derivatives including a minivan, cross-over utility vehicle and a utility van for fleets and other industrial or civic uses. Interesting but not suppressing. I would have loved to see Tesla remain an upstream brand. I am curious to know why no additional sports cars are being planed. If you already have a performance minded customer base will to pay 100,000+ for true performance why not continue to cater to them?
     
  2. Cobos

    Cobos S60 owner since 2013

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    Why build a sports car on the Model S chassis when they already have a good sportscar in the Roadster based on the Lotus created chassis?
    Not to mention a Model S sport with a 0-100km/t of 5.6s would in Norway at least beat all but the top 1% of car purchases here. Maybe even upto 0.3% or so as well.

    Cobos
     
  3. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    I'm positive Tesla will remain an upstream brand. Mercedes-Benz has all of the above and more, including the Sprinter panel vans and various trucks up to full size "semis". It doesn't stop them being thought of as upmarket.

    Besides, I'm sure Franz is secretly working on a two-door GT.
     
  4. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Making a utility truck or van is bread and butter stuff. Sell hundreds even thousands at a time to municipalities, power and phone companies, delivery services. All of which have millions of miles traveled in tiny known loops. Perfect for EVs.

    Tesla is about making quality EVs. A "division" could be set up that does not hurt the brand. Sort of the opposite of Honda's tiny box 600 turning into an NSX. Hemmings_honda.jpg acura-nsx-01.jpg
     
  5. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Upstream seems like an odd term to me. Is that meant to be the same as upmarket?

    Also it is my understanding that some brands are considered "Premium only" in the USA. For instance, the aforementioned Sprinter is sold as a Dodge in the USA, since it would be considered by some unworthy of carrying the premiere Mercedes name to US customers. I think in Europe, makers like BMW and Mercedes are less fearful about tarnishing their reputation by selling commonplace vehicles.

    To me the whole Daimler/Chrysler fiasco was in part due to Daimler's desire to have a more lowbrow brand to use to sell their "downmarket" products in the USA where Mercedes USA branding probably said "no way".
     
  6. Arnold Panz

    Arnold Panz Model Sig 304, VIN 542

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    I don't think Tesla ever planned on remaining solely an upscale brand. The plan all along, as I've read, was to create the Roadster, then Whitestar, then Bluestar, with each subsequent production being much cheaper and more mass market than the previous one. Like all new technologies, early adopters are willing to pay more (for the Roadster), but eventually economies of scale and commoditization should bring the cost of EVs, including Teslas, down to what most normal cars cost.

    Elon has repeated stated that part of his goal with Tesla is to help save the planet by moving us from ICEs to EVs. Pushing out sports cars selling for six figures is no way to accomplish that goal. Tesla's long term goal has always been to make and sell as many EVs as possible.
     
  7. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Yes, but I was using the OP's terminology.


    Sure Tesla will release cars at lower price points but they can still remain upmarket within those categories.
     
  8. Cobos

    Cobos S60 owner since 2013

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    Yes I always thought Tesla would continue being what we in Norway call a premium brand, just like Mercedes. But just like Mercedes has the A and B series that competes with other minicars and superminis, Tesla can get smaller cars as well. And like Mercedes smaller cars they will be slightly more premium and sligtly more expensive than similar VW cars f.inst.

    As TEG said the US Daimler devision is scared of their brand image and hence they don't want to sell their cheapest European cars in the US.

    Cobos
     
  9. Tessier

    Tessier Member

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    I am not auto industry expert but I would like if your selling in the "premium" "upmarket" or upstream" segment and lets say the car cost 100,000 and your margin is 10% for easy numbers you just made 10k. Now if your car cost 40,000 and you make the same 10% margin you make 4k. In basic term your going to need to sell a whole lot more 40k cars then 100k to make the same money. That mean's more dealer more service centers more expenses. Tesla being a fledgling company attempting to grab a small slice of the global auto industry would need to focus on where it can make the most profit. Which is where my suggestion came in about making the predecessor to the Roadster. Remember the saying strike while the iron is hot well the iron is roaring right now and if it takes 5 years from concept to production then they better get working on the next gen roadster if they want to capture and retain those high worth individuals next car purchase.

    Profit is only major reason I would think staying up market would be a good idea when your starting out. Sure it can be done and sure there are many success cases but why make it harder for yourself. I know Mercedes makes trucks, in the US if you walk into a Mercedes dealer you don't see Joe the plumber buying his next cargo van in there do ya? No you see upscale clients with other upscale clients shopping for cars that are currently out of the range I am willing to spend for an asset that is going to depreciate at an alarming rate! Now I am with all of you Tesla owners and fan's and I really hope they do succeed, prosper and change the world! I even hope to have made enough discretionary income to splurge and buy a Model S and give some profit to Tesla to build there next car. I was just hoping it would be another Premium vehicle and they would lease there US made technology to others who would build the cargo van's and trucks of the world.

    Just sayin
     
  10. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    They tried that, but T-Zero didn't want to license it...


    Same over here, the commercial vehicles go through a totally different channel. Likewise, to an extent, with Smart. Then they have regional centres where the really expensive stuff lives. No reason why a similar model won't work in the US or for Tesla, surely?
     
  11. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    While the the Roadster is expensive I don't consider it much of a luxury car. Power windows and leather interior are about the extent of it.
     
  12. DirkG

    DirkG New Member

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    There government fleet also can't be underestimated. Government agencies actually often have more direct mandates to go hybrid or electric. It is a huge market that has kept Ford and Chevy in good graces for years. One contract can be 500 vehicles or more, so... Mini Cooper is actually giving their electric car beta to the LA Sheriff Department for free at the moment to test and get an "in". At $50k a car, a number of government orders would bring in a ton of revenue.
     
  13. Brian H

    Brian H Banned

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    Strikes me that a slightly modified Model S would make a hell of a patrol/squad car!
     

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