From my understanding they never sad it was time based, just that the ambient lighting conditions weren’t taken into account when deciding how much dimming to be applied. I was assuming ambient lighting was being used to decide if dimming should be turned on.
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Perhaps they are intending to use the cameras for glare detection, much like using cameras for rain detection. If they can pull that off, it will have a chance to work even better than having light sensors built into the mirror. For example, the light sensors in my current car’s auto dimming mirror can be confused by a middle seat passenger/headrest casting a shadow on the glare sensor.
EscoguyS75
S75
Basically my wife won't drive the car at night now as she doesn't feel safe.
If any Tesla people are reading this, please work on a fix.
We are going in for service next Friday so we'll see what they say but as it will be in the daytime, it may be difficult to recreate the dimming.
Otherwise, it only took her two days to get used to the car.
She did comment that one driver was staying in her blindspot a while today and while she knew he was there, the mirrors didn't help.
If any Tesla people are reading this, please work on a fix.
We are going in for service next Friday so we'll see what they say but as it will be in the daytime, it may be difficult to recreate the dimming.
Otherwise, it only took her two days to get used to the car.
She did comment that one driver was staying in her blindspot a while today and while she knew he was there, the mirrors didn't help.
I don't think the Model 3 has a sensor. It is currently based on time of day. I am guessing that just like that the automatic wipers now use a front camera instead of a dedicated sensor that the Model 3 is going to use the rear facing camera(s) instead of a dedicated sensor, once they get the software/NN completed.
FlyF4
Son of a MX
FlyF4
Son of a MX
great question and I don't know the answer, but I can find out tomorrow. I just know that time is not being used ;-)
FlyF4
Son of a MX
MP3Mike said: ↑
So what is being used?
great question and I don't know the answer, but I can find out tomorrow. I just know that time is not being used ;-)
Well I am back and I really learned a lot about this topic. I agree with russman that using time of day would not be a good idea for many reasons. When I said I only knew that time of day was not used as a dimming method, it wasn't just because I thought it didn't make sense, it was because I asked a Tesla systems software engineering colleague as I was curious that software might somehow be involved. He said no they don't use software to control mirrors and didn't know how mirrors worked, but got me in contact with a new colleague whom engineers in things like this. So here is what he said..... as best as I remember all the details on the phone.
The Tesla mirrors are an independent system much the same as self-dimming mirrors on other cars. The inside center rear-view mirror is more complex than many people think. It actually has two sensors. The external sensor is on the BACK lower left corner (facing forward) as you sit in the driver's seat and can feel the indentation with your finger. I can't verify that yet as my car is elsewhere today. The 2nd sensor is inside the mirror and is not visible. It faces toward the back of the car. Both sensors are wired to an electronic circuit that measures the difference in "daylight" from the front of the car to light shinning through the back window of the Tesla (from headlights on cars in back of you) onto the mirror. If circuitry in the mirror determines there is little "broad based" slow response light from the front of the car, then it is reasonably dark outside, so if light is seen from the back of the car, it will send a varying voltage through a thin film of electrolyte in the mirror that prevents light from reflecting of the back surface. He says these mirrors are actually muti-layers of glass. Quite innovative. The voltage going to the electrolyte will vary with the amount of light coming from the rear of the car. Thus, more light means darker mirror. Then a signal is sent to the side mirrors to dim as well.
Whew! Discussing all of this, we conclude there are a couple of possibilities to the OPs issue. The most common being that when he had the camera installed, the external sensor was either blocked with dirt or some material or it was damaged. Therefore, the mirror thinks it is dark outside all the time as it can't sense light from the front sensor. Then even minor daylight striking the mirror internal sensor will cause mirrors to dim. We suggest checking the hole on the back of the mirror where the sensor is located to see if it is blocked.
The second possibly more serious issue is the possibility that the mirror was electrically damaged when the 12 volt wiring to the camera was made.
Lastly, while on the subject, he mentioned that occasionally customers bring in their cars to complain that the external mirrors will no longer dim when cars with bright headlights are behind them. In almost all cases, the customer put a very dark film on the back window so that car headlights are not coming through and striking the mirror. Not only is it a safety concern to block the back window, it causes this problem where no signal gets sent to the side mirrors for them to dim. He suggest if film is desired on the back window, then use a clear ceramic film that blocks the UV and infrared light to reduce material damage from the sun, yet allow ambient white light to pass.
So what is being used?
great question and I don't know the answer, but I can find out tomorrow. I just know that time is not being used ;-)
Well I am back and I really learned a lot about this topic. I agree with russman that using time of day would not be a good idea for many reasons. When I said I only knew that time of day was not used as a dimming method, it wasn't just because I thought it didn't make sense, it was because I asked a Tesla systems software engineering colleague as I was curious that software might somehow be involved. He said no they don't use software to control mirrors and didn't know how mirrors worked, but got me in contact with a new colleague whom engineers in things like this. So here is what he said..... as best as I remember all the details on the phone.
The Tesla mirrors are an independent system much the same as self-dimming mirrors on other cars. The inside center rear-view mirror is more complex than many people think. It actually has two sensors. The external sensor is on the BACK lower left corner (facing forward) as you sit in the driver's seat and can feel the indentation with your finger. I can't verify that yet as my car is elsewhere today. The 2nd sensor is inside the mirror and is not visible. It faces toward the back of the car. Both sensors are wired to an electronic circuit that measures the difference in "daylight" from the front of the car to light shinning through the back window of the Tesla (from headlights on cars in back of you) onto the mirror. If circuitry in the mirror determines there is little "broad based" slow response light from the front of the car, then it is reasonably dark outside, so if light is seen from the back of the car, it will send a varying voltage through a thin film of electrolyte in the mirror that prevents light from reflecting of the back surface. He says these mirrors are actually muti-layers of glass. Quite innovative. The voltage going to the electrolyte will vary with the amount of light coming from the rear of the car. Thus, more light means darker mirror. Then a signal is sent to the side mirrors to dim as well.
Whew! Discussing all of this, we conclude there are a couple of possibilities to the OPs issue. The most common being that when he had the camera installed, the external sensor was either blocked with dirt or some material or it was damaged. Therefore, the mirror thinks it is dark outside all the time as it can't sense light from the front sensor. Then even minor daylight striking the mirror internal sensor will cause mirrors to dim. We suggest checking the hole on the back of the mirror where the sensor is located to see if it is blocked.
The second possibly more serious issue is the possibility that the mirror was electrically damaged when the 12 volt wiring to the camera was made.
Lastly, while on the subject, he mentioned that occasionally customers bring in their cars to complain that the external mirrors will no longer dim when cars with bright headlights are behind them. In almost all cases, the customer put a very dark film on the back window so that car headlights are not coming through and striking the mirror. Not only is it a safety concern to block the back window, it causes this problem where no signal gets sent to the side mirrors for them to dim. He suggest if film is desired on the back window, then use a clear ceramic film that blocks the UV and infrared light to reduce material damage from the sun, yet allow ambient white light to pass.
FlyF4
Son of a MX
RIght because voltage is temporarily removed from the rear-view mirror to allow you to see more clearly in the mirrors as you back-up. This is true of all cars, not just Tesla. This information given to me by an engineer whom designs these systems.
Are we sure this person was talking about the Model 3 mirrors? For the S&X you can see the sensor in the rear view mirror if you use a flashlight, you can't in the Model 3. I, also, think people have said covering up the rear view mirror doesn't cause the side view mirrors to undim.
FlyF4
Son of a MX
Oh, good point Mike. I did not ask that. He just said these systems are a sub-assembling bought from the supplier. Also mentioned (and I forgot to say earlier post) that depending on the car brand and model, some cars send a signal to the side mirrors to dim, some don't send signals to side mirrors (the cheapie version), and some cars also have sensors and electronics in the side mirrors (more expensive cars). I didn't ask which of the methods that Tesla uses nor did I clarify that it is the same method on all models. I forgot the OP was talking about a M3. I'm meeting with this dude on next visit. Really smart. I'd like to learn more details.
Until then, I might SPECULATE that the model 3 could be using one of those new systems where they have their own sensors and electronics, but I am a bit doubtful the added cost would be put into a M3. I do know from our conversation that you can't always see the internal photocell by shining a flashlight on it as dependent on the design and location internally. Apparently there are several different designs of these "electro-chromatic" mirrors. Tesla might be using a different source for the 3. I'll ask when we meet.
