Model 3 20" Sport Wheels cause brakes to squeak

[ryandevoll]

I have a LR RWD Model 3 that came with the 18" Aero wheels. For the past year of owning it, I've been wanting sport wheels. Finally, in April, I bit the bullet and bought the Tesla 20" sport wheels from another Tesla owner. They were brand new and only had about 500 miles on them.

Once I put them on my Tesla, I noticed that the front brakes would squeak every single time it rained out. The squeak wouldn't go away until the next warm day. It wasn't just the first few times we hit the brakes. This sound was here to stay until the brakes were completely dry. And yes, we did try and "clean" the breaks by pressing down on them quickly going 60-80mph and then slowly as well and still, the next day it rained out, the squeak was back.

We took it into Tesla Service to have them check it out. The first time, the tech mentioned that our breaks were in really good condition and that weather will cause the breaks to squeak with these wheels. I mentioned to him that from my research folks with the Performance or Duel Motor M3 don't have this issue. He chalked it up to most likely they do but they're not saying anything. The second time we brought it in, a new tech mentioned our breaks felt "waxy" and that we must've cleaned the car with some product that is causing the rain not to dry off quickly. I told him that it's impossible since other folks, elsewhere in the country are also experiencing this issue and we don't share the same cleaning products with them. He wanted to replace the rotors. We opted out and put back on our original 18" aero wheels.

So now I have these beautiful 20" sport wheels sitting in our shed. A part of me wants to just throw them back on the car and deal with the squeak, and apart of me doesn't want to and wants Tesla to figure this out. If you've experienced this and have a fix please let me know in the comments below. We've tried almost everything.

 

[beastmode13]

The brake squeak has nothing to do with your wheels size or choice. Most likely there are some dirt, impurity in the pad material, which happens, it’s normal. Once the dirt is worn off it would be quiet. EV regen decrease the brake usage dramatically, thus most of the brakes aren’t bedded properly in normal daily driving like it would with ICE. I would suggest do a full bedding of pad to see if the squeak will go away.

 

[Paddy3101]

I have 20" Sports Wheels on my P3D.
They don't squeak, neither does the brakes. I do have different Rotors/Pads/Calipers on the P3D though, and do use the friction brakes more often (especially when its wet and start driving, to clean them up a little)

You may be experiencing a difference in sound/wetness/contamination of the brakes as the sport wheels are more 'Open', than the aeros.

I too would suggest putting them back on, and going out for a significant drive before making your decision. The 'performance' of the tires on the 20s in terms of braking/stopping/cornering is much better (IMHO) than the standard tires as well.

 

[beastmode13]

BTW. If it’s not obvious, turn regen to low when you go through the bedding process.

What is the Break-In Procedure? - Power Stop

 

[ryandevoll]

I have 20" Sports Wheels on my P3D.
They don't squeak, neither does the brakes. I do have different Rotors/Pads/Calipers on the P3D though, and do use the friction brakes more often (especially when its wet and start driving, to clean them up a little)

You may be experiencing a difference in sound/wetness/contamination of the brakes as the sport wheels are more 'Open', than the aeros.

I too would suggest putting them back on, and going out for a significant drive before making your decision. The 'performance' of the tires on the 20s in terms of braking/stopping/cornering is much better (IMHO) than the standard tires as well.

I did a Power Stop and Tesla Service did clean the brake pads when we took it in for service. The issue continued to happen. I even took off our areo caps and tried it in the rain and there wasn't any squeak

It seems that with the PM3 and DM3 this isn't an issue, only on RWD units.

 

[Coldones]

My P3D brakes will squeak when it rains. It only happens when decelarratting from about 2 mph down to 0. I've gotten used to it.

 

[MasterC17]

As others have stated, the brake squeak has nothing to do with the wheels and tires other than there is more moisture accumulating on your rotor surface as compared to an 18" wheel with an aero cover. Moisture causes corrosion, corrosion causes a squeak.

It is possible the rear pad shims are causing a squeak if bedding the pads didn't solve it, but based on your description it sounds unlikely.

Honestly if it is wet out your brakes are probably going to squeak. It's really that simple, and not uncommon, and not causing a safety/drivability issue.

 

[dfwatt]

I have a LR RWD Model 3 that came with the 18" Aero wheels. For the past year of owning it, I've been wanting sport wheels. Finally, in April, I bit the bullet and bought the Tesla 20" sport wheels from another Tesla owner. They were brand new and only had about 500 miles on them.

Once I put them on my Tesla, I noticed that the front brakes would squeak every single time it rained out. The squeak wouldn't go away until the next warm day. It wasn't just the first few times we hit the brakes. This sound was here to stay until the brakes were completely dry. And yes, we did try and "clean" the breaks by pressing down on them quickly going 60-80mph and then slowly as well and still, the next day it rained out, the squeak was back.

We took it into Tesla Service to have them check it out. The first time, the tech mentioned that our breaks were in really good condition and that weather will cause the breaks to squeak with these wheels. I mentioned to him that from my research folks with the Performance or Duel Motor M3 don't have this issue. He chalked it up to most likely they do but they're not saying anything. The second time we brought it in, a new tech mentioned our breaks felt "waxy" and that we must've cleaned the car with some product that is causing the rain not to dry off quickly. I told him that it's impossible since other folks, elsewhere in the country are also experiencing this issue and we don't share the same cleaning products with them. He wanted to replace the rotors. We opted out and put back on our original 18" aero wheels.

So now I have these beautiful 20" sport wheels sitting in our shed. A part of me wants to just throw them back on the car and deal with the squeak, and apart of me doesn't want to and wants Tesla to figure this out. If you've experienced this and have a fix please let me know in the comments below. We've tried almost everything.

Well I hate to break it to you but you got some really Dopey advice that you should have been very skeptical about. Wheels are not attached to brakes. They are attached to the HUB which in turn is attached to the brake caliper and a rotating disk. The squeaking is coming from a material resonance created by the disc PAD as a contacts a Spinning Disk. Mostly this is due to slightly Rusty rotors. It's possible that the Aero Wheels actually prevent the discs from being exposed to as much water and therefore protects them from rust. Anyone who wants to replace the rotors simply because you're getting some Rust related squeeking from brake pads is throwing money out the window. I have some really good swampland I'd like to sell them.

 

[preilly44]

We have this issue too (on both of our P3Ds). We never had it on our 3LR but we did have it on our S P90DL. I'm guessing it is something to do with the performance brake material. There is nothing you can do about it except live with it after it rains. For me, it is embarrassing to have a really loud squeak (especially in parking garages where it seems to amplify it) but there isn't much we can do about it.

It certainly doesn't help me "sell" Teslas to people when they hear it though.

 

[Paddy3101]

We have this issue too (on both of our P3Ds). We never had it on our 3LR but we did have it on our S P90DL. I'm guessing it is something to do with the performance brake material. There is nothing you can do about it except live with it after it rains. For me, it is embarrassing to have a really loud squeak (especially in parking garages where it seems to amplify it) but there isn't much we can do about it.

It certainly doesn't help me "sell" Teslas to people when they hear it though.

Doesn't happen with mine, even when it rains (P3D). The OP doesn't have a P3D brakes, just the wheels.

Eliminating Brake Noise

If it's the brakes, take a look to see if the shims are applied correctly, and that it's all properly lubricated. Check that there is the proper anti-sqeak lubricant/compound applied to the back of the pads. The tech's should have/probably did check this, but maybe they didn't?

Doesn't really explain the difference between the 18 and 20 inch rims though.

 

[WilliamG]

BTW. If it’s not obvious, turn regen to low when you go through the bedding process.

What is the Break-In Procedure? - Power Stop

I don’t want to call brake bedding a myth, but I’ve never done it on any of my performance cars and it’s never been an issue, and if it were something necessary you’d think the manufacturers would be telling everyone. I suspect bedding happens naturally for most people as they use their cars.

 

[Msjulie]

There is nothing you can do about it except live with it after it rains. For me, it is embarrassing to have a really loud squeak (especially in parking garages where it seems to amplify it) but there isn't much we can do about it.

It certainly doesn't help me "sell" Teslas to people when they hear it though.

This is far from a Tesla only issue; we have had 2 different VWs whose brakes could wake the dead when cold. Neighbors Mazda does wake the dead each AM. Ouch

The "fix" for our VWs was some Mintex Redbox up front... far less dust too since the VW OEM pads were dust monsters.

 

[beastmode13]

I don’t want to call brake bedding a myth, but I’ve never done it on any of my performance cars and it’s never been an issue, and if it were something necessary you’d think the manufacturers would be telling everyone. I suspect bedding happens naturally for most people as they use their cars.

In a Tesla the brake is used a lot less than ICE.

Bedding is a controlled process of deposit a thin layer of pad material on the surface of the rotor. Modern braking is a function of friction and adhesion. A quick way to tell if the rotor/pad is properly bedded is to spray some water on the rotor. If rust spots is apparent within 15min, it’s not bedded properly. If it takes over 30min for faint rust color water spots to show up, bedded is done correctly.

 

[dfwatt]

In a Tesla the brake is used a lot less than ICE.

Bedding is a controlled process of deposit a thin layer of pad material on the surface of the rotor. Modern braking is a function of friction and adhesion. A quick way to tell if the rotor/pad is properly bedded is to spray some water on the rotor. If rust spots is apparent within 15min, it’s not bedded properly. If it takes over 30min for faint rust color water spots to show up, bedded is done correctly.

But is this true for both Street and track pads?

 

[beastmode13]

But is this true for both Street and track pads?

Getting back to OP. Brake noise could have multiple causes. As other forum members have pointed out several sources. You can have perfectly bedded rotor and still have brake squeal.

Regarding to bedding, physics applies regardless of the speed of the vehicle. It is more critical for track application to do this right, to maximize the effectiveness of the brake system. On the street, under legal speed limits with a modern ICE car, bedding would be sufficiently completed about 50~100 miles of driving, from my expereince. With EV regen, I have no idea how many miles.

A few references on for brake science.
Abrasive Friction Vs Adherent Friction Part 1
https://www.apcautotech.com/getmedi...Whitepaper_C4-Bed-In-Performance-8-2018_1.pdf

 

[ryandevoll]

Getting back to OP. Brake noise could have multiple causes. As other forum members have pointed out several sources. You can have perfectly bedded rotor and still have brake squeal.

Regarding to bedding, physics applies regardless of the speed of the vehicle. It is more critical for track application to do this right, to maximize the effectiveness of the brake system. On the street, under legal speed limits with a modern ICE car, bedding would be sufficiently completed about 50~100 miles of driving, from my expereince. With EV regen, I have no idea how many miles.

A few references on for brake science.
Abrasive Friction Vs Adherent Friction Part 1
https://www.apcautotech.com/getmedi...Whitepaper_C4-Bed-In-Performance-8-2018_1.pdf

Thanks! I think I may just deal with the squeak.

 

[ZOMGVTEK]

It might help to get some heat into the pads. But you'd basically need to get up to highway speeds and slam on the brakes a few times...

 

[dfwatt]

It might help to get some heat into the pads. But you'd basically need to get up to highway speeds and slam on the brakes a few times...

Not a good idea. Even aside from the question of whether or not you're exposing yourself two getting rear-ended or a ticket. See here for the actual technical recommendations on bedding in pads and rotors from tire rack

 

[ZOMGVTEK]

OP claims to have owned the vehicle for a year, so surface contamination sounds more likely to be a factor. I also made the assumption OP is of sufficient intelligence to understand the impact this may have on surrounding traffic.