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Model 3 Accident, Is this car really safe to drive?

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It's amazingly sad how software engineering lexicon has crept into general public, like "is it a feature or a bug". BTW, thats what I do.
You are correct, no supercomputer in your car. Supercomputers filling large rooms eh....Depends on definitions of large and super.

A bit over a month ago I was at the 2018 Supercomputing conference in Dallas.
Home - SC18

November 2018 | TOP500 Supercomputer Sites

The top one consumes about 9.7 MW -- that is what is a supercomputer today.
Even number 499 on the list is almost 1 MW.
The chips in a Tesla are on the scale of what is in the next PlayStation.
 
A bit over a month ago I was at the 2018 Supercomputing conference in Dallas.
Home - SC18

November 2018 | TOP500 Supercomputer Sites

The top one consumes about 9.7 MW -- that is what is a supercomputer today.
Even number 499 on the list is almost 1 MW.
The chips in a Tesla are on the scale of what is in the next PlayStation.
Interesting, you went to a show. What do you do for a living?
 
A bit over a month ago I was at the 2018 Supercomputing conference in Dallas.
Home - SC18

November 2018 | TOP500 Supercomputer Sites

The top one consumes about 9.7 MW -- that is what is a supercomputer today.
Even number 499 on the list is almost 1 MW.
The chips in a Tesla are on the scale of what is in the next PlayStation.
Meh. It's faster than top supercomputers 20 years ago and it's faster than a modern desktop machine at those particular calculations...

I'm in the business too but I don't have any issue with people calling it a little supercomputer if they want.
 
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It does feel that OP is trying to play the angle that something's wrong with the car so he's not stuck with huge medical and car repair bills.

Huh? Do you have a critical reading issue? The OP said that he had a ruptured appendix (been there, done that). The OP blacked out due to the pain and the car crashed. Only injury from car crash is sore chest. Medical insurance will cover the burst appendix which, btw, is a valid reason for an ER visit. Chest/ribs will heal with ibuprofen. Auto insurance covers the car.

If I was OP, I'd also be asking Engineering types why the airbags did not deploy. Per the feds:

"Frontal air bags are generally designed to deploy in "moderate to severe" frontal or near-frontal crashes, which are defined as crashes that are equivalent to hitting a solid, fixed barrier at 8 to 14 mph or higher. (This would be equivalent to striking a parked car of similar size at about 16 to 28 mph or higher.)"

So perhaps the OP slowed? Regen when he blacked out and foot came off accelerator?

Regardless, reasonable question to me particularly if TSLA can download the computer's data.

Air Bags
 
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I was in an accident on Tuesday 18 December at approximately 12:30 pm while driving my Model 3. I experienced a medical emergency which caused me to completely black out while driving. I am seriously concerned about what did and did not happen as a result of the accident. First my Model 3 left the roadway after I became unconscious and struck a telephone pole. I do not know how fast I was traveling at the time of the collision with the pole but I do know the car was crumpled half way to the firewall.

None of the airbags deployed, not one. How can a front end collision of this magnitude not result in any airbags deploying. The car also never alerted Tesla that an accident had occurred?? I confirmed this by speaking to the Tesla Service Center and they reviewed the data pulled from the car. They said all they were getting is that some “secondary systems” were reported malfunctions.

Now I need to determine if the car is repairable or not and then decide if I even want the car. I purchased the Tesla for several reasons, one of the biggest being it’s safety rating but I have serious concerns about the “real” safety.

I am really uncomfortable driving the Tesla in the future with my family inside if the safety systems do not function.

I would like to escalate this accident to someone who can provide answers. Both people I spoke to at the Service Center after seeing the pictures said that absolutely the airbags should have deployed and absolutely an accident message should have been transmitted to Tesla.

I would also think that Tesla would be very interested in finding out why they car did not function properly.

I had similar damage in a Model S accident (none of the other cars involved had airbags deployed either). So glad airbags did not deploy as they were unneeded safest car I have ever driven. have Model 3 now.
 
The car is a very safe car, but it isn't right to say it is "absolutely" safe -- way too many variables to conclude that.
And, IMHO, there is no evidence that the driver is/was unsafe. He had an appendix burst. Could happen to anyone (who still has one).



First, there is no supercomputer in the car. Supercomputers (by today's standards) fill large rooms. Sure, the car has a couple of powerful chips in it, but nothing that exotic.

Second, the computers don't decide when to deploy the airbags. The airbag has its own sensor completely independent of all other systems based on numerous web pages such as this: Airbag - Wikipedia
First...Nvidia’s Words, not mine. https://electrek.co/2017/05/22/tesla-nvidia-supercomputer-self-driving-autopilot/, next. There is an airbag control module that run on 1’s and 0’s. But the main point is this individual drove when they should not have and call into question the safety of the car we are fanatical about in the forum for fanatics. The person who crashed has a pattern of poor choices, blaming the car is ridiculous. The courts historically side with me on this one and it’s a simple exercise in root cause analysis.
 
This is the wrong place to find the affirmation you are looking for. You are trying way too hard to absolve yourself of culpability. As someone else said to you, "you're alive aren't you?" The airbags didn't deploy as you weren't going fast enough.

After reading the OP's first post, I wondered the same as you (presumably) if s/he was looking for someone to blame. But after seeing the OP's responses, I believe they are genuinely wondering why things happened the way they did.

As for your earlier comment:
wcorey said:
"Haters"? I can't speak for all on here but I certainly don't know him/her well enough to hate. That word is bantered about WAY too often and WAY to capriciously. If I were driving along and had a stroke or heart attack I would not be airing my grievances on here, nor blaming the car.
I used that word because it is bantered about frequently. It was a shorthand way to get the idea across. In your hypothetical situation, I wouldn't blame the car either. But I would be asking questions about whether or not the airbags should have deployed.

wcorey said:
If we're now talking about how to best 'game' this, now we've entered another sphere entirely. That the OP is attacking others tells me (s)he is looking for affirmation.
The OP never asked about the tax credit or how to game the system. That was brought up by others. And there's nothing wrong with trying to limit the financial impact of anything, assuming honest behavior. (Fraud would be a different story.)

As for attacking others, I can't speak for the OP, but I suspect it's more a case of defending their honor against the attacks by the "haters". ;)

wcorey said:
The OP said, "Just a sore chest and then the ride to the hospital for surgery for a burst appendicts, that has been no fun and the pain was incredible. Enough that I passed out. And it went from an annoying stomach pain to full blown incapacitating pain in under a minute"

Under a minute is sufficient time to pull over and call 911, (s)he didn't spontaneously lose consciousness.

"Under a minute" to go from annoying to incapacitating pain. Taking the OP at their word, incapacitating would mean they could no longer choose to do anything about it. I'm sure if the OP had time to avoid the crash, they would have done so.


I'm interested in whether or not the car had EAP and if not, will the OP buy it on the replacement car (assuming they get another Model 3).
 
NO! I haven't tried to play any angles at all. Read all of the posts. I have insurance for the medical bills, and insurance for the car. Just a point of light for all of the naysayers I received a call today with the repair estimate from the Tesla approved repair facility and they remarked that they were surprised that the airbags didn't deploy. Quit trying to turn this on me, I just want to see tha data and have Tesla confirm based on the data that the car performed as designed. SHEEEESH!

Nothing wrong with wanting Tesla to look over the data, but it’s almost a certainty that the airbags and car functioned exactly as designed. As I said in my previous post, the fact that you only have a sore chest (likely due to the seatbelt) means the impact likely wasn’t nearly as severe as the crumple zones might make it look and the sensors decided that the numbers recorded didn’t match specifications where deploying airbags would be safer than air bags not deploying at all. Your question is a common one that people have when they’re in accidents when airbags don’t deploy because they don’t realize the dangerous force involved in airbags and that they’re a last resort. But hey, Tesla and your insurance company will look over the data and let you know if something malfunctioned.
 
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If I was OP, I'd also be asking Engineering types why the airbags did not deploy. Per the feds:

"Frontal air bags are generally designed to deploy in "moderate to severe" frontal or near-frontal crashes, which are defined as crashes that are equivalent to hitting a solid, fixed barrier at 8 to 14 mph or higher. (This would be equivalent to striking a parked car of similar size at about 16 to 28 mph or higher.)"

But it was not a solid, fixed barrier. It was a wooden pole, in sand, that tipped on impact (and also snapped showing the level of deflection it had).
For all we know, the car slid up the pole before rolling backwards to it's resting point. Airbag systems are specifically tuned not to deploy on a curb impact.

Look back at the pics in post #1, the pole hit offset from the frame rails, what looks like a front cross beam bent, and there was some sheet metal crumpelage. The broken off section impact just inside the right bumper fascia showing how much the pole moved. In the crash image, it also appears based on the ground at the right rear wheel that the car spun on (or before) impact.

Overall impression: long duration impact with a deformable object verses deformable parts of the car, not an instance to use an airbag.

As to OPs' original post:
Both people I spoke to at the Service Center after seeing the pictures said that absolutely the airbags should have deployed and absolutely an accident message should have been transmitted to Tesla.

Two 'people at the service center' do not expert witnesses (or even informed) make. Hiwever, they can induce confirmation bias leading to erroneous conclusions (which I think many are reacting to):

I would also think that Tesla would be very interested in finding out why they car did not function properly.

It did work properly, they didn't need airbags.

Columbo edit: data on how EDRs work
http://www.crashdatagroup.com/learnmore/BlackBoxMyths_Haight.pdf
 
Last edited:
I was in an accident on Tuesday 18 December at approximately 12:30 pm while driving my Model 3. I experienced a medical emergency which caused me to completely black out while driving. I am seriously concerned about what did and did not happen as a result of the accident. First my Model 3 left the roadway after I became unconscious and struck a telephone pole. I do not know how fast I was traveling at the time of the collision with the pole but I do know the car was crumpled half way to the firewall.

None of the airbags deployed, not one. How can a front end collision of this magnitude not result in any airbags deploying. The car also never alerted Tesla that an accident had occurred?? I confirmed this by speaking to the Tesla Service Center and they reviewed the data pulled from the car. They said all they were getting is that some “secondary systems” were reported malfunctions.

Now I need to determine if the car is repairable or not and then decide if I even want the car. I purchased the Tesla for several reasons, one of the biggest being it’s safety rating but I have serious concerns about the “real” safety.

I am really uncomfortable driving the Tesla in the future with my family inside if the safety systems do not function.

I would like to escalate this accident to someone who can provide answers. Both people I spoke to at the Service Center after seeing the pictures said that absolutely the airbags should have deployed and absolutely an accident message should have been transmitted to Tesla.

I would also think that Tesla would be very interested in finding out why they car did not function properly.

First of all. I don't see where your car was crumpled half way to the firewall. I don't even see the frunk bucket being messed up.

The interior cabin looks untouched by anything related to the accident.

At the time of the accident...you were unconscious and totally un-rigid ( non-defensive - non-tensed - totally limp ) and you remained unhurt. That's safety in my book.

Secondly....Tesla Service Centers NEVER know what's transmitted to Tesla and what is NOT. And they diagnosed airbag deployment? I'm sure Tesla would love to know who these folks are.

I would be interested in what car you feel you would be comfortable in ( concerning safety ) than a Model 3.

What car did you choose to put your family in ? I'm really interested.

Tesla Model 3 = Safest Car Ever Tested By NHTSA. How Did Tesla Pull It Off? | CleanTechnica
 
Working for a utility company, I have seen my share of cars hitting poles. You would be surprised how many airbags don't deploy. The reason is deceleration rate. The impact is in a small surface if the car, and the pile absorbing the force if the impact. Because only a 1ft section of the crumple zone is hit, the car crushes in, but absorbs the energy.Also the wood poles gives, bends, and the breaks, absorbing more energy.
From my recollection I can say, maybe only about 60% of the accidents I've seen the car, the airbags deploy.
 
So perhaps the OP slowed? Regen when he blacked out and foot came off accelerator?

Regardless, reasonable question to me particularly if TSLA can download the computer's data.
Or perhaps Emergency Braking, on even non EAP cars slowed the car to lower than airbag deployment speed.
It is my understanding that OTA download of 'flight recorder' data is not possible but just as service stations can download data from other brands computer data so too can Tesla.
 
Or perhaps Emergency Braking, on even non EAP cars slowed the car to lower than airbag deployment speed.
It is my understanding that OTA download of 'flight recorder' data is not possible but just as service stations can download data from other brands computer data so too can Tesla.

Why would Tesla need data on this accident?

What would they look at?

This accident is your standard everyday accident....except that it was posted here in the forum.
 
After reading the OP's first post, I wondered the same as you (presumably) if s/he was looking for someone to blame. But after seeing the OP's responses, I believe they are genuinely wondering why things happened the way they did.

As for your earlier comment:

I used that word because it is bantered about frequently. It was a shorthand way to get the idea across. In your hypothetical situation, I wouldn't blame the car either. But I would be asking questions about whether or not the airbags should have deployed.


The OP never asked about the tax credit or how to game the system. That was brought up by others. And there's nothing wrong with trying to limit the financial impact of anything, assuming honest behavior. (Fraud would be a different story.)

As for attacking others, I can't speak for the OP, but I suspect it's more a case of defending their honor against the attacks by the "haters". ;)


"Under a minute" to go from annoying to incapacitating pain. Taking the OP at their word, incapacitating would mean they could no longer choose to do anything about it. I'm sure if the OP had time to avoid the crash, they would have done so.


I'm interested in whether or not the car had EAP and if not, will the OP buy it on the replacement car (assuming they get another Model 3).
I got that sense from many of the posts. I get having a ruptured appendix is painful and the experience was unnerving. I do. Asking for technical information on how the Tesla should respond is best asked to a Tesla tech support rep, not customer service. Someone was responding to OP re: dual tax credits and his/her taxable income being too low. It did not ref earlier convo. I assumed it was part of an earlier convo. I cannot say if I've seen every last post he made. Chances are good he can call Tesla mobile service to come and collect data even if car is at body shop. Some assumptions I've made are very few owners actually read the owners manual as what the car would do is pretty clear. But to come out of the gate assuming the car did not function and was not safe is assuming facts clearly not in evidence and is highly prejudicial.
(S)he had said NO EAP. So the only safety features were airbags and emergency breaking. Emergency braking isn't intended to prevent collision, merely lessen the consequences. Tesla Model 3 (if not all) was recently awarded Safest Car on the market so to say in thread title the car is not safe to drive???
 
Why would Tesla need data on this accident?

What would they look at?

This accident is your standard everyday accident....except that it was posted here in the forum.
I would say, if for no other reason, PR. I have no doubt this will be picked up elsewhere and used to bolster agendas so it would be in Tesla's interest to have sufficient info to say definitively what happened, what driver input there was and what the software did.
 
I would say, if for no other reason, PR. I have no doubt this will be picked up elsewhere and used to bolster agendas so it would be in Tesla's interest to have sufficient info to say definitively what happened, what driver input there was and what the software did.

Well, I'm sure Tesla has protocol concerning accidents, but this is just a standard accident thread where the car exemplified Tesla's commitment to safety.

For goodness sake...the OP was unconscious - then involved in an accident - and is fully unharmed without the need of airbags. That's phenomenal to me.
 
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