The point is, I have been restricting it because "I dont like it", which I decided is no longer appropriate as a reason to restrict it.
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The point is, I have been restricting it because "I dont like it", which I decided is no longer appropriate as a reason to restrict it.
Yet you have the objective measure of the Model Y wait threads, which look like a mess to me. I can see no benefit to presenting multiple threads when the people who are waiting for cars are almost invariably new to the forums. A simple and obvious place to go seems objectively superior.
I'm guessing that you'll leave this thread pinned and allow others to survive or whither according to their activity level.
Thats a great guess, because thats exactly what I intend to do (leave these 3 threads pinned, and let any others people create survive or whither on their own. My hope is that people just continue to post in this one, but basically I decided I was being unfair to people in the model 3 subforum, especially since I now help moderate model Y as well.
myt-e-s-l-a
Member
Joined the Tesla Family on 2/11/23.
It was beautifully prepared and waiting to welcome me upon arrival.
NO flaws or paint defect detected. Fit and gaps within spec.Very clean inside and new smell permeated throughout. It was raining during inspection and I can confirm that it is water leak proof. Born on 01/23, Car had 35 miles on odometer and charged to 80%.
Being familiar with Teslas, did a "Contact Less" delivery/pickup.
Signed 3 page acceptance doc after review, paid balance via plaid, was given the card key, paired it to phone and drove off after 30 mins.
Car is a blast to drive. Liked the "one pedal" driving experience much. Already battled with elevated pickups tailgating me and had fun leaving them in the dust. Zoom Zoom. lol
Received Registration docs via Fedex 10 days later.
Note that this EV qualifies for the $7500 EV tax credit (IRA bill)
It was beautifully prepared and waiting to welcome me upon arrival.
NO flaws or paint defect detected. Fit and gaps within spec.Very clean inside and new smell permeated throughout. It was raining during inspection and I can confirm that it is water leak proof. Born on 01/23, Car had 35 miles on odometer and charged to 80%.
Being familiar with Teslas, did a "Contact Less" delivery/pickup.
Signed 3 page acceptance doc after review, paid balance via plaid, was given the card key, paired it to phone and drove off after 30 mins.
Car is a blast to drive. Liked the "one pedal" driving experience much. Already battled with elevated pickups tailgating me and had fun leaving them in the dust. Zoom Zoom. lol
Received Registration docs via Fedex 10 days later.
Note that this EV qualifies for the $7500 EV tax credit (IRA bill)
Last edited:
I broke down and switched my order to a M3P... added another $860 to the price and I'll need to get a set of winter wheels/tires before fall. Allegedly will get it in March still. Driving my 2011 Taurus with 160K on it last night and the transmission did a couple hiccups... I can't limp it along much longer, and I will *not* be putting a new trans in this thing.
Will advise on my new estimated date when received.
Will advise on my new estimated date when received.
A while back we were fretting over whether or not the door frame was painted in the area where the doors attach. Some cars, like mine, don't have full coverage in those areas. They'll be fully primed, but not painted in the body color. It happens because the doors are attached when the frame is painted, and the paint sprayer doesn't always get into that gap between door and frame.
At Investor Day 2023, Tesla stated that they've designed a new vehicle assembly process (including painting) such that instead of putting all the exterior pieces together, painting the whole thing, then taking the doors off to provide access to the interior (and put the door pieces together), they're instead going to paint all the pieces in advance, then assemble all the various bits and pieces, then attach them to the frame after they've completed the interior.
This should result in a body that is perfectly painted. It also uses less paint.
Unfortunately, this technique will only be practical for their next generation vehicle, which will be the Model 2 or whatever it's called. Apparently both the car and the factory have to be designed for this approach. I hope that once they master the process (years from now) they'll retrofit their current vehicles and factories to take advantage of it.
Note that cars have been assembled the current way for over 100 years. It constantly amazes me to see how stagnant the legacy auto industry is. First the Japanese came and ate their lunch, and now Tesla.
At Investor Day 2023, Tesla stated that they've designed a new vehicle assembly process (including painting) such that instead of putting all the exterior pieces together, painting the whole thing, then taking the doors off to provide access to the interior (and put the door pieces together), they're instead going to paint all the pieces in advance, then assemble all the various bits and pieces, then attach them to the frame after they've completed the interior.
This should result in a body that is perfectly painted. It also uses less paint.
Unfortunately, this technique will only be practical for their next generation vehicle, which will be the Model 2 or whatever it's called. Apparently both the car and the factory have to be designed for this approach. I hope that once they master the process (years from now) they'll retrofit their current vehicles and factories to take advantage of it.
Note that cars have been assembled the current way for over 100 years. It constantly amazes me to see how stagnant the legacy auto industry is. First the Japanese came and ate their lunch, and now Tesla.
Exclusive: Tesla taps Asian partners to address 4680 battery concerns
This is an interesting read. If they can get 4680 production dialed in, that could mean more 2170s freed up for LRs.
This is an interesting read. If they can get 4680 production dialed in, that could mean more 2170s freed up for LRs.
myt-e-s-l-a
Member
Tesla 4680 battery's secret sauce: Dry electrode coating
REUTERS 12:02 AM ET 3/10/2023
(Reuters) - Tesla Inc(TSLA) is pioneering a new battery manufacturing process called dry electrode coating that it is applying to its new 4680 battery cells.
The dry process, which Tesla obtained via its 2019 acquisition of California startup Maxwell Technologies, replaces a traditional, complicated step of battery manufacturing that involves coating the electrode foil with a wet, chemical slurry.
The coated foil needs to go through a lengthy drying process before final assembly, and the toxic solvents used in the slurry need to be recovered and disposed of.
The electric vehicle maker has said the dry coating process has the potential to dramatically reduce the size, cost, energy consumption and production cycle time of battery manufacturing plants, while boosting the energy density and power of battery cells.
Besides Maxwell, other companies working on dry coating include California-based LiCap Technologies and Massachusetts-based AM Batteries.
Tesla Expects To Lose Full $7,500 Tax Credit On Its Model 3 Standard Range - Electrek
REUTERS 5:22 AM ET 3/23/2023
March 23 (Reuters) -
* TESLA EXPECTS TO LOSE FULL $7,500 TAX CREDIT ON ITS CHEAPEST ELECTRIC CAR - ELECTREK
Tesla told employees that it expects to lose the full $7,500 federal tax credit on its cheapest electric car because the batteries come from China.
Since January, some electric automakers have been enjoying a surge in demand thanks to the new federal tax credit program for electric vehicles coming into place.
Tesla has been the biggest winner since its buyers completely lost access to the tax credit years ago after the automaker hit 200,000 deliveries in the US.
For the last three months, eligible buyers in the US could get a $7,500 tax credit on all Tesla Model 3 and Model Y vehicles, which are the automaker’s two cheapest and most popular models.
However, we knew that things would change by the end of March.
When the new tax credit program was announced, it included requirements for battery production in North America and battery material sourcing in countries with free trade agreements with the US in order to get access to up to half of $7,500 credit.
But the guidance on how these requirements would work was not released in time for the new tax credit coming into effect in January, and therefore, they were waived until the second quarter.
By then, the IRS has been expected to release detailed guidance about how those requirements will be accounted for.
Now Electrek has learned from sources familiar with the matter that Tesla has communicated to employees that it expects the IRS to release the guidance any day now, and the automaker expects to lose the full credit on the Model 3 Standard Range – its cheapest vehicle.
The Model 3 Standard Range is built in Fremont, California, in the US, but its battery pack is using LFP battery cells built in China.
The communication to employees appears to have been done to prepare buyers of those vehicles, as the access to the full credit could change if delivery is done on April 1 rather than March 31 – pending official guidance.
As for Tesla’s other Model Y and Model 3 vehicles in the US, they are expected to retain access to the full tax credit as they are using battery cells built by Tesla or Panasonic in Nevada, California, or Texas.
The battery material sourcing might be more of an issue, but Tesla appears confident that it won’t be the case as a large percentage of its battery materials are sourced from countries with free trade agreements like Australia and Canada.
REUTERS 12:02 AM ET 3/10/2023
(Reuters) - Tesla Inc(TSLA) is pioneering a new battery manufacturing process called dry electrode coating that it is applying to its new 4680 battery cells.
The dry process, which Tesla obtained via its 2019 acquisition of California startup Maxwell Technologies, replaces a traditional, complicated step of battery manufacturing that involves coating the electrode foil with a wet, chemical slurry.
The coated foil needs to go through a lengthy drying process before final assembly, and the toxic solvents used in the slurry need to be recovered and disposed of.
The electric vehicle maker has said the dry coating process has the potential to dramatically reduce the size, cost, energy consumption and production cycle time of battery manufacturing plants, while boosting the energy density and power of battery cells.
Besides Maxwell, other companies working on dry coating include California-based LiCap Technologies and Massachusetts-based AM Batteries.
Tesla Expects To Lose Full $7,500 Tax Credit On Its Model 3 Standard Range - Electrek
REUTERS 5:22 AM ET 3/23/2023
March 23 (Reuters) -
* TESLA EXPECTS TO LOSE FULL $7,500 TAX CREDIT ON ITS CHEAPEST ELECTRIC CAR - ELECTREK
Tesla told employees that it expects to lose the full $7,500 federal tax credit on its cheapest electric car because the batteries come from China.
Since January, some electric automakers have been enjoying a surge in demand thanks to the new federal tax credit program for electric vehicles coming into place.
Tesla has been the biggest winner since its buyers completely lost access to the tax credit years ago after the automaker hit 200,000 deliveries in the US.
For the last three months, eligible buyers in the US could get a $7,500 tax credit on all Tesla Model 3 and Model Y vehicles, which are the automaker’s two cheapest and most popular models.
However, we knew that things would change by the end of March.
When the new tax credit program was announced, it included requirements for battery production in North America and battery material sourcing in countries with free trade agreements with the US in order to get access to up to half of $7,500 credit.
But the guidance on how these requirements would work was not released in time for the new tax credit coming into effect in January, and therefore, they were waived until the second quarter.
By then, the IRS has been expected to release detailed guidance about how those requirements will be accounted for.
Now Electrek has learned from sources familiar with the matter that Tesla has communicated to employees that it expects the IRS to release the guidance any day now, and the automaker expects to lose the full credit on the Model 3 Standard Range – its cheapest vehicle.
The Model 3 Standard Range is built in Fremont, California, in the US, but its battery pack is using LFP battery cells built in China.
The communication to employees appears to have been done to prepare buyers of those vehicles, as the access to the full credit could change if delivery is done on April 1 rather than March 31 – pending official guidance.
As for Tesla’s other Model Y and Model 3 vehicles in the US, they are expected to retain access to the full tax credit as they are using battery cells built by Tesla or Panasonic in Nevada, California, or Texas.
The battery material sourcing might be more of an issue, but Tesla appears confident that it won’t be the case as a large percentage of its battery materials are sourced from countries with free trade agreements like Australia and Canada.
King David
Member
Dead quiet in here. Seems like most of us are in standby with a late May- Early July Delivery? Is the likeliest outcome that they are waiting for Project Highland to get rolling (Q3) and ultimate we are looking at July/Aug/Sept deliveries (Q3)?
Here's the best I could find for what to expect. The page is dated March 21.
Exclusive: Tesla's Model 3, Project Highland Exposed: What’s Changing
Discover the latest updates on Tesla's Model 3 Highland, including changes to its design, technology, and production efficiency.
www.notateslaapp.com
They're guessing a third quarter production start.
King David
Member
Thanks... but I guess what I'm trying to figure out is why they've continued to produce SR and Performance while LR AWD is the only one in a holding pattern?Highland will theoretically apply to all trim models, right? Yet they chose one to pause- seems like I'm missing something
One theory is that they may not have had enough batteries for their two best-selling cars, the Model 3 Long Range and the Model Y Long Range. Order backlog was building on both, and Tesla just decided that they couldn't keep operating with such a huge backlog because people would stop ordering either vehicle. They had enough batteries for one or the other, but not both. The Model Y Long Range was more popular, had the greater profit per vehicle, qualified for the IRA tax credits, and was the focus of the Austin Gigafactory. They had to be able to build more Model Y Long Range at Austin, and they didn't have 4680 battery production ramped, so Model 3 Long Range production was shut down because they needed the batteries. They weren't going to let their new factory sit idle.
The Model 3 SR uses LFP batteries, which is a different source, so those batteries are available.
The Model 3 Performance is a lower volume vehicle with higher margins, so they could continue to build them. It was a good use of available batteries.
The other theory is that they wanted a clean break on Model 3 Long Range production so that they could refresh that model. I don't know why that would need the production line to be shut down, but they might be going with a dramatically different production setup for the refresh (which would be consistent with the idea that Project Highland is a nod to Ford's original super-efficient Highland Park factory). The backlog comment would then be interpreted as meaning that Tesla would have to keep building the current Long Range for too long, impairing Tesla's ability to restructure the production line.
myt-e-s-l-a
Member
US unveils stricter EV tax credit rules, effective April 18
REUTERS 8:42 PM ET 3/31/2023
By David Shepardson and David Lawder
WASHINGTON, March 31 (Reuters) - The U.S. Treasury Department unveiled stricter electric vehicle tax rules on Friday that will reduce or remove tax credits on some zero-emission models but grant buyers another two weeks before the new requirements take effect.
The rules are aimed at weaning the United States off dependence on China for EV battery supply chains and are part of President Joe Biden's effort to make 50% of U.S. new vehicle sales by 2030 EVs or plug-in hybrids.
The EV battery sourcing guidance issued on Friday triggers new requirements for critical minerals and battery components and takes effect for vehicle purchases starting April 18.
U.S. officials acknowledged some vehicles will see credits cut or eliminated. Tesla said on Wednesday the Model 3 rear-wheel drive credit will be reduced as a result of the guidance. The government will publish by April 18 a revised list of qualifying models and tax credit amounts.
The $430 billion Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) signed by Biden in August eliminated manufacturers' EV sales caps but imposed new conditions on EV credits. They included a North American assembly requirement from August, price and buyer income eligibility caps from Jan. 1, and now the battery and critical minerals sourcing rules, effective April 18.
Alliance for Automotive Innovation CEO John Bozzella said in a statement his best guess is "few" EVs on the market will qualify for the full $7,500 credit after April 17. He noted the requirement for EVs be assembled in North America to qualify for any credit eliminated 70% of models.
"Some EVs will certainly qualify for a partial credit. Given the constraints of the legislation, Treasury's done as well as it could to produce rules that meet the statute and reflect the current market," Bozzella said.
The IRA requires 50% of the value of battery components to be produced or assembled in North America to qualify for a $3,750 credit and 40% of the value of critical minerals sourced from the United States or a free trade partner also for a $3,750 credit.
Treasury proposes a three-step process for determining the value percentage of critical minerals and a four-step process for determining battery component value.
On Tuesday, the United States and Japan inked a trade deal on EV battery minerals. Treasury says newly negotiated critical minerals agreements can be considered free trade agreements. The guidance lists Japan as having a U.S. free trade deal.
The South Korean government welcomed the new rules, adding they reflected the opinion of the South Korean battery industry substantially and removed a "great deal of uncertainty".
In a statement on Saturday, the country's trade ministry said the government plans to hold further negotiations with the U.S. on the requirements of South Korean companies if necessary.
Senate Energy Committee chair Joe Manchin, a Democrat, said Treasury is ignoring the intent of the IRA in writing the guidance.
"American tax dollars should not be used to support manufacturing jobs overseas," Manchin said. "It is a pathetic excuse to spend more tax payer dollars as quickly as possible and further cedes control to the Chinese Communist Party in the process."
Treasury is not immediately issuing guidance on "Foreign Entities of Concern", a provision due to start in 2024 barring credits if any components or minerals used in EV batteries are made in countries like China.
China has previously criticised EV related rules in the IRA, saying in September they could be violating WTO regulations.
Ford said in February it would invest $3.5 billion to build an EV battery plant in Michigan, using technology from Chinese battery company CATL.
Republican Senator Marco Rubio introduced legislation this month seeking to block EV tax credits for batteries produced using Chinese technology, saying it would "significantly restrict the eligibility of IRA tax credits and prevent Chinese companies from benefiting."
The public will have until mid-June to comment on the proposed guidance.
REUTERS 8:42 PM ET 3/31/2023
By David Shepardson and David Lawder
WASHINGTON, March 31 (Reuters) - The U.S. Treasury Department unveiled stricter electric vehicle tax rules on Friday that will reduce or remove tax credits on some zero-emission models but grant buyers another two weeks before the new requirements take effect.
The rules are aimed at weaning the United States off dependence on China for EV battery supply chains and are part of President Joe Biden's effort to make 50% of U.S. new vehicle sales by 2030 EVs or plug-in hybrids.
The EV battery sourcing guidance issued on Friday triggers new requirements for critical minerals and battery components and takes effect for vehicle purchases starting April 18.
U.S. officials acknowledged some vehicles will see credits cut or eliminated. Tesla said on Wednesday the Model 3 rear-wheel drive credit will be reduced as a result of the guidance. The government will publish by April 18 a revised list of qualifying models and tax credit amounts.
The $430 billion Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) signed by Biden in August eliminated manufacturers' EV sales caps but imposed new conditions on EV credits. They included a North American assembly requirement from August, price and buyer income eligibility caps from Jan. 1, and now the battery and critical minerals sourcing rules, effective April 18.
Alliance for Automotive Innovation CEO John Bozzella said in a statement his best guess is "few" EVs on the market will qualify for the full $7,500 credit after April 17. He noted the requirement for EVs be assembled in North America to qualify for any credit eliminated 70% of models.
"Some EVs will certainly qualify for a partial credit. Given the constraints of the legislation, Treasury's done as well as it could to produce rules that meet the statute and reflect the current market," Bozzella said.
The IRA requires 50% of the value of battery components to be produced or assembled in North America to qualify for a $3,750 credit and 40% of the value of critical minerals sourced from the United States or a free trade partner also for a $3,750 credit.
Treasury proposes a three-step process for determining the value percentage of critical minerals and a four-step process for determining battery component value.
On Tuesday, the United States and Japan inked a trade deal on EV battery minerals. Treasury says newly negotiated critical minerals agreements can be considered free trade agreements. The guidance lists Japan as having a U.S. free trade deal.
The South Korean government welcomed the new rules, adding they reflected the opinion of the South Korean battery industry substantially and removed a "great deal of uncertainty".
In a statement on Saturday, the country's trade ministry said the government plans to hold further negotiations with the U.S. on the requirements of South Korean companies if necessary.
Senate Energy Committee chair Joe Manchin, a Democrat, said Treasury is ignoring the intent of the IRA in writing the guidance.
"American tax dollars should not be used to support manufacturing jobs overseas," Manchin said. "It is a pathetic excuse to spend more tax payer dollars as quickly as possible and further cedes control to the Chinese Communist Party in the process."
Treasury is not immediately issuing guidance on "Foreign Entities of Concern", a provision due to start in 2024 barring credits if any components or minerals used in EV batteries are made in countries like China.
China has previously criticised EV related rules in the IRA, saying in September they could be violating WTO regulations.
Ford said in February it would invest $3.5 billion to build an EV battery plant in Michigan, using technology from Chinese battery company CATL.
Republican Senator Marco Rubio introduced legislation this month seeking to block EV tax credits for batteries produced using Chinese technology, saying it would "significantly restrict the eligibility of IRA tax credits and prevent Chinese companies from benefiting."
The public will have until mid-June to comment on the proposed guidance.
myt-e-s-l-a
Member
Tesla misses delivery estimates as weak economy overshadows price cuts
REUTERS 11:18 AM ET 4/2/2023
April 2 (Reuters) - Tesla Inc(TSLA) on Sunday missed estimates for first-quarter deliveries as a bleak economic outlook and rising competition outweighed the electric automaker's efforts to prop up demand with price cuts.
Tesla delivered 422,875 vehicles, a record high for the automaker but smaller than analyst expectations for 430,008 vehicles, according to Refinitiv data.
Investors have been watching Chief Executive Elon Musk's gamble that cutting prices would stimulate sales, making up for the profit hit from eroding margins.
Tesla deliveries grew 4% from the previous quarter and were 36% higher than a year ago.
"Sequential growth continues even in the first quarter," Martin Viecha, Tesla's head of investor relations said in a tweet.
The carmaker produced more cars than it delivered, manufacturing 440,808 vehicles for the first three months of this year.
Tesla delivered 6% more of its mainstay Model 3/Model Y vehicles than the previous quarter. But the number of deliveries for its higher-priced Model X/Model S vehicles slumped by 38%.
In January, Tesla slashed prices globally by as much as 20%, unleashing a price war after missing Wall Street delivery estimates for 2022.
Musk warned the prospect of recession and higher interest rates meant the carmaker could lower prices to sustain growth at the expense of profit. In January, Musk said the price cuts had stoked demand.
Shares have soared more than 68% this year on hopes that Tesla would win the price war it started, although the stock remains more than 50% below its November 2021 peak.
* TESLA VEHICLE PRODUCTION & DELIVERIES AND DATE FOR FINANCIAL RESULTS & WEBCAST FOR FIRST QUARTER 2023
* Q1 TOTAL PRODUCTION 440,808 UNITS
* Q1 MODEL S/X DELIVERIES 10,695 UNITS
* Q1 TOTAL DELIVERIES 422,875 UNITS
* Q1 MODEL 3/Y PRODUCTION 421,371 UNITS
* Q1 MODEL S/X PRODUCTION 19,437 UNITS
* Q1 MODEL 3/Y DELIVERIES 412,180 UNITS
REUTERS 11:18 AM ET 4/2/2023
April 2 (Reuters) - Tesla Inc(TSLA) on Sunday missed estimates for first-quarter deliveries as a bleak economic outlook and rising competition outweighed the electric automaker's efforts to prop up demand with price cuts.
Tesla delivered 422,875 vehicles, a record high for the automaker but smaller than analyst expectations for 430,008 vehicles, according to Refinitiv data.
Investors have been watching Chief Executive Elon Musk's gamble that cutting prices would stimulate sales, making up for the profit hit from eroding margins.
Tesla deliveries grew 4% from the previous quarter and were 36% higher than a year ago.
"Sequential growth continues even in the first quarter," Martin Viecha, Tesla's head of investor relations said in a tweet.
The carmaker produced more cars than it delivered, manufacturing 440,808 vehicles for the first three months of this year.
Tesla delivered 6% more of its mainstay Model 3/Model Y vehicles than the previous quarter. But the number of deliveries for its higher-priced Model X/Model S vehicles slumped by 38%.
In January, Tesla slashed prices globally by as much as 20%, unleashing a price war after missing Wall Street delivery estimates for 2022.
Musk warned the prospect of recession and higher interest rates meant the carmaker could lower prices to sustain growth at the expense of profit. In January, Musk said the price cuts had stoked demand.
Shares have soared more than 68% this year on hopes that Tesla would win the price war it started, although the stock remains more than 50% below its November 2021 peak.
* TESLA VEHICLE PRODUCTION & DELIVERIES AND DATE FOR FINANCIAL RESULTS & WEBCAST FOR FIRST QUARTER 2023
* Q1 TOTAL PRODUCTION 440,808 UNITS
* Q1 MODEL S/X DELIVERIES 10,695 UNITS
* Q1 TOTAL DELIVERIES 422,875 UNITS
* Q1 MODEL 3/Y PRODUCTION 421,371 UNITS
* Q1 MODEL S/X PRODUCTION 19,437 UNITS
* Q1 MODEL 3/Y DELIVERIES 412,180 UNITS
myt-e-s-l-a
Member
Tesla cut prices on both versions of its Model 3 sedan by $1,000 and on its Model Y crossover by $2,000, the website showed. It also cut prices on both versions of its more expensive Model S and Model X by $5,000.
Thanks for this link. We have a M3 LR and its lease is up in June. I guess we will have to go down to one car for a bit since the features listed in this link are IMHO worth the wait.Here's the best I could find for what to expect. The page is dated March 21.
Exclusive: Tesla's Model 3, Project Highland Exposed: What’s Changing
Discover the latest updates on Tesla's Model 3 Highland, including changes to its design, technology, and production efficiency.
They're guessing a third quarter production start.
Hi guys I'm new to the board.... I just purchased a new M3 LR 2023....i live in hong kong and wondering if there will be any new updates on hardware for the 2023 model? I understand that the new 4680 batteries will be adopting to the new model 3 and Y in north America, also new cameras... Wondering if that's the case for Asia cars?
Also is there any other hardware updates coming for the new 2023 model 3?
Also is there any other hardware updates coming for the new 2023 model 3?
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