Model 3 - LR AWD Waiting Room

[enemji]

Subjectively labeling criteria as "outliers" doesn't make it true. If Tesla hadn't halted LR orders and high volume production, I'm confident they would have continued to sell like hotcakes. Folks are choosing the other trims because they're available, not because LRs are unpopular.

You are missing the point. The batteries are a limiting factor. For the same batteries if they can sell a more popular car and make more $$$, then they will.

 

[enemji]

Exactly, I ordered a 3LR because I wanted a road trip car. Lots of range and AWD for fun weather and mountain passes. I have no use for the extra performance of the 3P and the RWDs reduced battery size is not appealing to me. The Y doesn’t quite have the same range and I just am not that interested in SUV’s / crossovers.

That’s me. I got 2x M3 LR last year right before they stopped orders.

 

[enemji]

Of course they’d still sell like hotcakes; that’s the problem. Tesla doesn’t WANT to sell them when they can put the same battery in a higher margin M3P or Model Y. That’s the ONLY reason the 3LR isn’t available.

The day you see Tesla unable to sell every Model Y and 3P they can make is the day you’ll see the 3LR come back.

Exactly the point I was attempting to make.

 

[enemji]

Subjectively labeling criteria as "outliers" doesn't make it true. If Tesla hadn't halted LR orders and high volume production, I'm confident they would have continued to sell like hotcakes. Folks are choosing the other trims because they're available, not because LRs are unpopular.

Subjectively is what really works. Objectively the Blackberry was the better phone. You think Steve Jobs ran focus groups to design the iPhone?

 

[DrChaos]

Of course they’d still sell like hotcakes; that’s the problem. Tesla doesn’t WANT to sell them when they can put the same battery in a higher margin M3P or Model Y. That’s the ONLY reason the 3LR isn’t available.

The day you see Tesla unable to sell every Model Y and 3P they can make is the day you’ll see the 3LR come back.

The solution to this is obvious: price the 3LR to be margin indifferent vs the Y and 3P, at about $49,990 or $50,490.

There are still people who would prefer the 3LR, as I would and did.

Or even a 3P with the 18" aero wheels and tires, minus $1000 of 3P price. That's the primary reason I wouldn't want a P: hard ride expensive fragile wheels and tires.

 

[msm859]

The solution to this is obvious: price the 3LR to be margin indifferent vs the Y and 3P, at about $49,990 or $50,490.

There are still people who would prefer the 3LR, as I would and did.

Or even a 3P with the 18" aero wheels and tires, minus $1000 of 3P price. That's the primary reason I wouldn't want a P: hard ride expensive fragile wheels and tires.

The LR Y is $3k more than the SR Y. Perhaps they could make the LR 3 $4k more than the SR 3. Make up for the profit difference. And with an additional $3750 in tax credits it would be @ the same price as the SR 3. A win win.

 

[jsight]

You are missing the point. The batteries are a limiting factor. For the same batteries if they can sell a more popular car and make more $$$, then they will.

TBH, if they are battery limited at this point, they don't act like it. They are scaling up semi, stationary storage, and CT in the second half of the year. To me, they appear to be more limited by factory space than supplies right now.

 

[enemji]

TBH, if they are battery limited at this point, they don't act like it. They are scaling up semi, stationary storage, and CT in the second half of the year. To me, they appear to be more limited by factory space than supplies right now.

Oh they are. They don’t say it but they are.

 

[DrChaos]

TBH, if they are battery limited at this point, they don't act like it. They are scaling up semi, stationary storage, and CT in the second half of the year. To me, they appear to be more limited by factory space than supplies right now.

That makes them more likely to be battery limited. Though stationary storage will probably move to LFP. CT will take tons of NCA

 

[jsight]

Oh they are. They don’t say it but they are.

Considering how much they've vocalized the issue in the past, why would they suddenly stop talking about it now? And launch new products that need multiple times more batteries per unit?

 

[Diceroller]

The LR can be ordered again, but it only qualifies for half the tax credit. If you have an existing order, you must go in and reconfirm your design and accept the changes in the pricing.

 

[DrChaos]

The LR can be ordered again, but it only qualifies for half the tax credit. If you have an existing order, you must go in and reconfirm your design and accept the changes in the pricing.

Range (est) for the 3LR is "325+" miles. With the 18" aeros. It used to be 358. Something in the battery pack has changed. I suspect it's LG NMC from China, which is not as good as the Panasonic NCA pack it used to use. The Panasonic pack and cells are made 100% in USA and should get the full credit. The 3P still gets the full 7500. With tax credit the 3P is 45740. With tax credit the gimped 3LR is 43490. Not a big difference. I don't see any option for Acceleration Boost either.

I have a 2022 358 mile and I confirm that if you travel with rated EPA efficiency that range was accurate.

The 3LR with the Panasonic pack was the best model they made, in my opinion.

 

[enemji]

The LR can be ordered again, but it only qualifies for half the tax credit. If you have an existing order, you must go in and reconfirm your design and accept the changes in the pricing.

That’s $3000 less than 2022

 

[jsight]

Range (est) for the 3LR is "325+" miles. With the 18" aeros. It used to be 358. Something in the battery pack has changed. I suspect it's LG NMC from China, which is not as good as the Panasonic NCA pack it used to use. The Panasonic pack and cells are made 100% in USA and should get the full credit. The 3P still gets the full 7500.

I have a 2022 358 mile and I confirm that if you travel with rated EPA efficiency that range was accurate.

The 3LR with the Panasonic pack was the best model they made, in my opinion.

I suspect you are right, and that's disappointing, tbh. That really makes it more expensive than the LR MY too. That's really weird.

I definitely wasn't expecting this refresh to be a downgrade.

 

[DrChaos]

I suspect you are right, and that's disappointing, tbh. That really makes it more expensive than the LR MY too. That's really weird.

I definitely wasn't expecting this refresh to be a downgrade.

I wish they would make the stealth 3P with the 18" aeros.

LG also made the Bolt battery pack which blew up. There is also a recall for LG batteries for home storage in Australia.

LG batteries fail on multiple cars: NHTSA Launches Investigation Into LG Energy EV Battery Failures

No widespread failures from Panasonic cells in 10 years. Or CATL, over less time.

BTW I think this also shows that for the most part the Tesla program to make 4680 cells internally is a failure, in volume or performance. If they were able to do that, then many of the Y's would be using those being built in Texas, and there would be ample supply of the Panasonic NCA's for the 3LR. I suspect they are diverting 2170 NCA's to use in the Y's both in Fremont and Texas, and there aren't enough for the 3LR, which is why it was suspended for some time, and comes back now worse than before.

The YLR is less expensive after credit, and with 19" wheels, has more range than the 3LR with 18".

 

[enemji]

I suspect you are right, and that's disappointing, tbh. That really makes it more expensive than the LR MY too. That's really weird.

I definitely wasn't expecting this refresh to be a downgrade.

I was expecting it.
A LR is LR. You want the NCA, go for M3P. Not surprised at all.

Which is why I purchased 2xM3LR in 2022. I knew this would happen sooner rather than later.

 

[MrRJDio]

I wish they would make the stealth 3P with the 18" aeros.

LG also made the Bolt battery pack which blew up. There is also a recall for LG batteries for home storage in Australia.

LG batteries fail on multiple cars: NHTSA Launches Investigation Into LG Energy EV Battery Failures

No widespread failures from Panasonic cells in 10 years. Or CATL, over less time.

BTW I think this also shows that for the most part the Tesla program to make 4680 cells internally is a failure, in volume or performance. If they were able to do that, then many of the Y's would be using those being built in Texas, and there would be ample supply of the Panasonic NCA's for the 3LR. I suspect they are diverting 2170 NCA's to use in the Y's both in Fremont and Texas, and there aren't enough for the 3LR, which is why it was suspended for some time, and comes back now worse than before.

The YLR is less expensive after credit, and with 19" wheels, has more range than the 3LR with 18".

What would happen if you put 18” wheels on a M3P? Imagine the Aeros don’t fit with the brakes, but is there any aftermarket wheel that would provide similar aerodynamics? Would the M3P then get better than 315?

 

[DrChaos]

What would happen if you put 18” wheels on a M3P? Imagine the Aeros don’t fit with the brakes, but is there any aftermarket wheel that would provide similar aerodynamics? Would the M3P then get better than 315?

Yes, you can do that, but you need to buy a full set of wheels and tires. I explicitly don't want 20" tires, I want the range and longevity of 18".

The M3P with 18" aero would get very close to the old 3LR, the difference being only a slight lowering of motor efficiency. I'm guessing it would get 348-350. Wheels & tires make a major difference in all tests in all EVs. I'm very annoyed at the trend to put substantially less efficient wheels & tires, which also have worse ride quality and worse longevity, on the top range of many EVs.

 

[Diceroller]

Even though the tax credit is halved, the silver lining is the price dropped $3k since I placed my order, so it almost comes out to the full credit amount. Any chance we get some highland updates at least to offset the battery disappointment?

 

[42M3]

So finally got the changes to go through, so what are the disadvantages to having an LFP. While watching comparison video, many people said that being able to always have the RWD at 100% was a great advantage. Do LFP get the full speed at Super Chargers? It doesn't seem to have taken at hit to the 0-60 time either for the Long range.