ModelNforNerd
Active Member
No one product is going to be universally loved. Nearly 400,000 pre-orders is a sign that should Tesla not wow you in particular, they will go on.
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No one product is going to be universally loved. Nearly 400,000 pre-orders is a sign that should Tesla not wow you in particular, they will go on.
Agree that they will sell lots of 3s regardless. But I still believe that appealing to the most buyers as possible would be the preferred route to reach their goal. The deposits were placed before seeing anything (like mine) or after hearing that the interior display and controls were not the final product, and are of course refundable. After 24 pages, it's obvious this is a big deal even among the technophiles on this forum. I want them to be successful whether I buy one or not (no, not a stock holder).
N5329K
Active Member
400,000 people (more or less) signed up for the option of buying a Tesla car they knew very little about, other than:
1. it would be electric;
2. it would be smaller than the Model S;
3. it wouldn't be burdened by the engineering hubris of the Model X;
4. it would have acceptable (even superior) performance.
Beyond that, they (we) still know very little about the Model 3's interior, its control scheme, the company's ability to build a quality product, the company's ability to support it, etc etc.
As those things become known, the initial, impressive tide of reservations will either flood (if they get things right), or (if they don't) ebb.
Robin
1. it would be electric;
2. it would be smaller than the Model S;
3. it wouldn't be burdened by the engineering hubris of the Model X;
4. it would have acceptable (even superior) performance.
Beyond that, they (we) still know very little about the Model 3's interior, its control scheme, the company's ability to build a quality product, the company's ability to support it, etc etc.
As those things become known, the initial, impressive tide of reservations will either flood (if they get things right), or (if they don't) ebb.
Robin
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I'm sorry, but looking down is never in the direct line of sight of the driver. That's why warnings are always accompanied by an audio signal to alert you. Otherwise your side peripheral vision is much more likely to notice a visual change than a visual change happening below your line of sight. How often do people drive for miles with their turn indicators on. Even turn indicators tend to have a clicking sound, otherwise this would be way more common since people would never notice the visual signal out of their line of sight. In front of you has to be below the steering wheel, slightly to the side doesn't have to be, so it can be higher. Higher is more important than centered, since as you point out your eyes tend to look back and forth, but never up and down.
That being said, in neither case is the driver very likely to notice a purely visual signal. They will either hear a warning and look or notice it when they check the speedometer.
I think you have missed my point. The point is that I have to notice that one alert light has been lit *without* looking down (and/or to the side). You are right, I do not see that the speedometer has changed whenever it is direct in front of the driver or not, so this I would have to look down and/or to the side to see it. But I will see that "some red light" has been turned on so I know I have to find out which and what it does mean - if it is direct below what I'm looking at.
Not always. And I find the ones that does distracting, and not all drivers have a perfect hearing.
One of my current cars has some information placed on about the same position as the top left of the center screen on the TM3, and no - i do NOT notice any visual change there unless I look for it.
We can agree on this. But that does not take away the importance of getting it somewhat centered in front of the driver. If there will be a HUD as has been speculated about, so it can be displayed on the windshield above the steering wheel, it will be a perfect placement for alerts like this. But I can settle with a less perfect/lower placement (but not too low, I will not have to look down at my lap to see them
).This is our fundamental disagreement. I don't think you will. I definitely don't think you are more likely to see it through the steering wheel than on the Model 3 center screen. My experience after decades of driving is that I hear a tone and have to look around to see what light turned on. It is never the light that alerts me no matter what the placement.
And my experience after decades of driving is that I do notice red or yellow lights that is turned on in that area, and I do notice the blue light indicating "high beam on" - as long as they are not hidden behind the steering wheel (and that is a problem om some cars). The only alerts that has audible warning that I'm aware of in any car I can remember to ever have driven is the turn indicator, door open and safety belts.
alseTrick
Active Member
alseTrick
Active Member
Driving home tonight (dark out) in moderate interstate traffic, I kept my head still and after focusing on the car ahead of me, I looked 1) down to my binnacle and back up to the car ahead of me, 2) down and to the right towards where my A/C and radio controls are located. For reference, this looks to be my exact interior, plus an alternate view.
It is very easy to move my eyes up/down from the road to your binnacle. So much so that no head movement is even required.
It's also not difficult to keep my head still and still read the digital display telling me the temperature/time/radio station. However, it's close to the limit of how far I can move my eyes without also requiring to turn my head. Not a problem if, as I said, all I'm doing is looking at a simple digital reading of a few numbers (speed, radio station, temperature). But most likely an issue if I'm trying to pay attention to what AP is seeing. (If there is no hud and no binnacle, the AP screen has to go somewhere, right?)
It seems unlikely I'd be able to fully focus on an image similar to what is on the current S/X's "second" screen without moving my head. I know from experience, when I flip between FM/AM or or different A/C settings (actions not possible via steering wheel buttons), I lose complete focus from the road. How would that be different when driving with AP, if the AP display is on the singular center screen? Certainly Tesla isn't completely removing that screen from the 3? Once the car is truly autonomous, it won't matter anymore, but that won't be for years.
Recently this thread had got me thinking, "Maybe it won't be so bad if the 3 only has the center screen (no HUD, no binnacle). It might be clear and easy to read." But nope. There is 0% chance that looking down and to your right, especially when having to view AP info or if a dashboard warning light pops up, is safer than a traditional binnacle. Not only is it not safer, but I'd venture a guess that there's a 100% chance it's less safe.
I also wonder if the steering wheel (or your right hand on the right side of the steering wheel) will obscure the leftmost part of the screen. Another reference pic (please ignore the binnacle in this pic). It wouldn't obscure the speed for me, based on where I place my right hand, but any important info in the bottom left (AP?) would become more complicated than current Tesla vehicles to view.
It is very easy to move my eyes up/down from the road to your binnacle. So much so that no head movement is even required.
It's also not difficult to keep my head still and still read the digital display telling me the temperature/time/radio station. However, it's close to the limit of how far I can move my eyes without also requiring to turn my head. Not a problem if, as I said, all I'm doing is looking at a simple digital reading of a few numbers (speed, radio station, temperature). But most likely an issue if I'm trying to pay attention to what AP is seeing. (If there is no hud and no binnacle, the AP screen has to go somewhere, right?)
It seems unlikely I'd be able to fully focus on an image similar to what is on the current S/X's "second" screen without moving my head. I know from experience, when I flip between FM/AM or or different A/C settings (actions not possible via steering wheel buttons), I lose complete focus from the road. How would that be different when driving with AP, if the AP display is on the singular center screen? Certainly Tesla isn't completely removing that screen from the 3? Once the car is truly autonomous, it won't matter anymore, but that won't be for years.
Recently this thread had got me thinking, "Maybe it won't be so bad if the 3 only has the center screen (no HUD, no binnacle). It might be clear and easy to read." But nope. There is 0% chance that looking down and to your right, especially when having to view AP info or if a dashboard warning light pops up, is safer than a traditional binnacle. Not only is it not safer, but I'd venture a guess that there's a 100% chance it's less safe.
I also wonder if the steering wheel (or your right hand on the right side of the steering wheel) will obscure the leftmost part of the screen. Another reference pic (please ignore the binnacle in this pic). It wouldn't obscure the speed for me, based on where I place my right hand, but any important info in the bottom left (AP?) would become more complicated than current Tesla vehicles to view.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The positioning of the screen in the Model 3 seems to be much higher and closer to the steering wheel than the temperature control display on your car. I don't think your test represents the position it would be in the Model 3.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
I've had great practice for this. The pop-up screen in my A3 is only slightly higher than where my Model 3 screen will be.
alseTrick
Active Member
Actually that was mine too. I don't believe looking at the Model 3 center screen will be any more distracting from the road than looking at the same display through the steering wheel. Both require moving your eyes almost the same amount.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
If I had the time I might do a photoshop, but that requires finding a picture of the two dashes taken from the same camera position to get an accurate overlay. But from just looking at the pictures you linked, it looks like the positioning of the Model 3 screen is significantly higher than the display in your car (and also a bit closer) and that can make a significant difference in how much eye movement is required from the road, and change the results of the test.
Personally, I use center mounted GPS unit (that is mounted a bit higher than the Model 3 screen) and it is actually easier to look at that (less eye movement) than my speedo. So the exact positioning really matters.
alseTrick
Active Member
Literally no insight into what is going to happen with the AP display or how Tesla can make it visible without reducing safety? Cool.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Well if your original premise wrong (that there is more eye movement required versus a traditional binnacle), I'm not sure what kind of insight that would provide into the AP display. We first need to establish what you claim is true. I tried to play around with photoshop but it was hard to find a Model 3 picture that matches the camera position, but here is my best effort using T logo on steering wheel as reference keeping in mind Tesla steering wheel is an oval instead of a circle, keeping in mind dash and windscreen position. It's still a bit off given the camera angle is not the same (rear view mirror doesn't match, the screen appears to be shifted right, etc).
I used this image to overlay.
https://d2odvx3v4cbpyu.cloudfront.n.../04/Tesla-Model-3-Center-Dash-Touchscreen.jpg
I used some red labels to make things more clear. Red circle on left is your car's existing speedometer, red square to immediate right-top of that is the Model 3 speedometer.
Your AC screen is much lower and to the right (marked as AC). Your AM/FM button (small box next to AM/FM label) and radio screen is even lower than that.
I'm basically not seeing that the Model 3 speedometer would require more eye movement. It might if it was placed at the same place as your AC controls, but it's placed significantly more left and higher.
As for AP display, it can be put immediately below the speedometer (similar to how it is in S/X). The UI might have to change from S/X to simplify things and make it take less display space (thus keeping mostly in the top left corner of screen for minimal eye movement), but not seeing how it's as bad as you put it.
Exactly. Here is another photo for comparison, and you can use the steering wheel position as a reference - you can see that speedometer display is much higher and much closer to the steering wheel than your AC vent..
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
I'm baffled when someone says glancing to the upper right of the steering wheel to see the speedometer is unsafe. A glance takes a fraction of a second. I also look at my rearview mirror, and side mirrors, which takes both eye and head movements, and I do this more often than I check my speedometer (usually just go with the flow of traffic). Checking the side mirrors is unsafe? NHTSA would disagree. I also turn my head back to check my mirror blind spots before changing lanes. I look at the fuel gauge and the clock, the outside temperature, and adjust the heater/AC controls from time to time, all while I'm keeping track of traffic. Anyone who says he has to always keep his eyes rigidly locked straight ahead scares me! Where's the situational awareness of traffic around you?
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