Still waiting to hear what people have to say about the real-world range and performance of the LFP Model 3s in -35C and below.
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Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion
- Thread starter Baluchi
- Start date
Me too! I guess they’re all just having too much fun driving their cars around.
Tom Lombardi
Member
No, we live in northern Arizona and the temps run about 15f lower that Phoenix. I drive a 90 mile route 3 - 4 times a week for business then charge in my garage. I rarely supercharge, about 10 times in the 19,800 miles since new.
This mothafucka casually flexing HIS PLANE
Tom Lombardi
Member
Lots of interesting information on this thread. 
I live in Scotland which can get a bit cold in winter, I do around 30,000 miles per year and I am about to order a model 3.
I would like a long range because of the range, performance, four wheel drive, premium interior etc but I am starting to wonder if the LFP standard range may be a better option, due to the higher battery degradation I would probably suffer with the long range.
I plan to keep the car for around four years so it will probably end up with quite a lot of miles on it.
I had made up my mind for the exact specification that I wanted but now I am not so sure.
I live in Scotland which can get a bit cold in winter, I do around 30,000 miles per year and I am about to order a model 3.
I would like a long range because of the range, performance, four wheel drive, premium interior etc but I am starting to wonder if the LFP standard range may be a better option, due to the higher battery degradation I would probably suffer with the long range.
I plan to keep the car for around four years so it will probably end up with quite a lot of miles on it.
I had made up my mind for the exact specification that I wanted but now I am not so sure.
Tom Lombardi
Member
On my daily trek I usually run it down to around 50%, so it's charged back to 80% in just a few hours and sits at 80% overnight.
The car is always garaged, however over the summer months it can get to the high 90's inside during the day.
Yes, an RV7a and yes we built and also painted it, our forth kit airplane. Thanks for asking!
I only posted that photo because there's nothing more boring than a guy complaining about range loss.
How cold does it get? We don't have a lot of real world data at say, -10C or lower, but the battery test data seems to say there's a huge loss of range if it gets that cold.Lots of interesting information on this thread.
I live in Scotland which can get a bit cold in winter, I do around 30,000 miles per year and I am about to order a model 3.
I would like a long range because of the range, performance, four wheel drive, premium interior etc but I am starting to wonder if the LFP standard range may be a better option, due to the higher battery degradation I would probably suffer with the long range.
I plan to keep the car for around four years so it will probably end up with quite a lot of miles on it.
I had made up my mind for the exact specification that I wanted but now I am not so sure.
I haven't done the exact calculations, but I think that even with degradation, the LR will still have more range than the LFP SR+ (now called RWD) model. For example, if your LR battery degrades to 85%, you'll have around 300 miles range. If your SR+ (RWD) battery degrades only to 95%, you'll have around 250 miles range. I'll link a video with some data. You can skip ahead to time 19:54 if you're in a hurry.
Nice info about the RV7A!On my daily trek I usually run it down to around 50%, so it's charged back to 80% in just a few hours and sits at 80% overnight.
The car is always garaged, however over the summer months it can get to the high 90's inside during the day.
Yes, an RV7a and yes we built and also painted it, our forth kit airplane. Thanks for asking!
I only posted that photo because there's nothing more boring than a guy complaining about range loss.
I think we might be in the wrong thread as this thread aim for the LFP battery cars.
Anyway; The 80% SOC during long time and specially when hogh ambient temps will degrade the battery quite much.
Theres some research reports even implying that 80% is the worst SOC when it comes to calendar aging for NCA batteries.
80% for most of the time with high ambient temps( more than 25C / 77F or so) will eat a quite big cake of the battery the first year.
Charging during the hot period will increase the battery temp so the average cell temp might be noticable higher than the ambient temp.
Its not hard to find a scenario that cost about 10% the first year, in calendar aging only.
When did you get the car?
Than you for this, I had a quick look but I will sit down and watch the entire video.
The coldest I have seen is -19C but it is very unusual to get even close to that, -6 is a more common minimum temperature in the winter and even that is rare. It does seem that the long range is the better option.
Tom Lombardi
Member
It will be 2 years old this May. You seem pretty knowledgeable about NCA batteries, could this be just because it's sitting in a cold garage?
When I move the slider it now shows I have 196 miles at 100% this morning. It's 55f in our garage. I fully understand that cold reduces driving range dramatically, as much as 30%, however, does it also effect the amount of available capacity this slider is reporting? Does your Tesla do this?
I have the scanmytesla app and a dongle, the CAC "calculated amp capacity" is plummeting. With my luck it will level off at 29% degradation.
I'm strongly considering trading it in to Tesla.
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55F is a very good temp to store lithium batteries. Low temperature reduces the calendar aging. High temps increase the aging by quite much. 55F is not cold and the range do not reduce until the battery is close to freezing.
I have mostly about 8-10C (45-50F) in my garage during the winter period and I do not loose any range at this temp. Last week, a full charge got med 507km/315 mi which is the ”full range”.
If you worry about that, check the cars range in the screen in the car when the charging just finished. Also note the SOC.
The battery will be warmer after the charge, probably almost room temp, depending on the charging speed.
The app do not always show the correct range so degradation should not be checked in the app. Despite full range in my car(507km) the app sometimes show me 497 or 499km and some times 507km with the slider at 100%.
Note SOC and range(at the battery symbol) in the car, divide the rsnge with the absolute SOC number ( ie 80% = 0.8).
That is the range of the car.
If the range seems low, you could let the car sleep with low SOC( preferably below 20%, 10-20%) for at least some 3-4 hours.
This make the BMS see the open circuit voltage at low SOC.
You already charge to 80%(?) so the car see the open circuit voltage at 80% for some hours each night?
These values (20 + 80%) should be enough for a ok assumption of the battery capacity.
I found camp verde to be quite warm on the summer period, may to september.
High temp + high SOC will cause high calendar aging.
As I guess we are in the wrong thread( LFP type of lithium battery) I wouldnt like to post a picture of calendar aging for the NCA. Search my username and “calendar aging” and you will find some good info plus pictures.
You definitely have a Long Range model, which is NCA battery. We're talking about LFP batteries here. I'm still wondering how much range loss I'll get with highway driving when it's -30C out.
Tom Lombardi
Member
Yes, the app indicated 196 mi and as a test I charged to 100% and it ended up at 206 mi! I never let it sit at 100% so I then drove the car down to 80%.
I think your theory of what might have happen seems valid, in the summer our garage gets pretty warm and my car spent a lot of time at 80%! A better strategy would be to charge overnight closer to departure. Also, I'll give a few BMS open circuit calibrations a try.
Thanks for your thoughts on this, you've given me a few things to think about.
I have a 2022 RWD coming in the next few weeks. I live near boston ,I will be parking in an unheated garage with a 32amp charger. I know I should always have it plugged in. My question is for optimum battery health should I always charge to100%? I also have a 15 min commute should I preheat while its plugged in? or just drive since the car won't be that cold? thanks
Have a look at the manual.
Always keep your Tesla plugged in. LFP batteries can be charge to 100% all the time.
I suppose "cold" is a matter of perspective, but I'd preheat to warm the cabin if nothing else. Preheating will also help your range in "cold" weather but that might not be important if you start at 100% and have a short commute.
Did Tesla ever fix their departure charging to actually complete charging at departure time? I recall when they finally added this feature a few years back it would always complete charging at something like 6am regardless of when you actually departed. The depart time only affected preheating of the car.
On a related note, do they test how much power your outlet can actually supply? Voltage can sag at higher current depending on home wiring so some cars like my Bolt EV will do a short "test charge" of a few seconds when you plug in the power cord in order to calculate a very precise time needed to start charging in order to complete exactly at departure time. Korean EVs don't do this and would often finish an hour or more before actual departure setting because their calculations were just based on maximum 32A allowed by the plug with no regard of available voltage.
Yes
I don't think so, but they give you the option of setting charging amps (from 5 to 12 for L1, max for L2 varies by model) so that an exact charge time can be calculated. I haven't paid a lot of attention, but I think the time updates during charging if power changes.
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