Model S Service Contracts - the poll edition(tm)!

[jed-99aggie]

No. Just removed from the quote to keep the quote size down.

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Mass. has a similar inspection (what state are you in?) -- and it was no problem inspecting the Roadster. There's an "EV button" of sorts on the inspection equipment which bypasses the emissions check. The safety check doesn't require hooking into OBDII or anything of that nature. There were 0 problems or questions about how to get through the process. I suspect it won't be an issue.

I'm based in Texas. I previously onwed a vintage car before OBDII and know of a few Cobra replica owners and inspections have been a headache in Houston.

Glad to hear things are better in your Roadster experience.

 

[westcoast]

Westcoast,

1. It really sounds like the Model S is NOT for you. You don't seem to understand the point in the startup process the Tesla is in. What you are suggesting just isn't based in reality. There is no possible way for them to pay you, you have simply put Tesla out of business, and if you expect them to preform inspections and service for free then you might as well have put a stop to their expansion. I'm sure that once they have been around for 95 years such as BMW, their ability to both shoulder more of this, better predict costs and margins, and have long standing data on their designs, they will better match your type of car company.


2. I'm not sure how to explain this to you other than to say when you build something new, it never goes perfectly. If you did it well, then it's only small issues and you clear them up and refine the design for the next time. This is a NEW car, and not new in the way that Toyota or Honda releases a new model line, this is new like you are buying the FIRST car Toyota ever made. In fact, if they didn't want to carefully check over the cars regularly and carefully, I would be very very worried, and it would be very foolhardy on Tesla's part. If you expected to be able to just drive the car for 100,000 miles and never check anything, no tie rod ends, no ball joints, no wheel bearings like you would with a Toyota, then again, I say this is not the car for you.

Peter

Yes, my original post was rather melodramatic and a little inane. I'll own it. It's just sheer frustration that Tesla is undermining themselves with these decisions that keep jacking the cost of ownership up.

Now that I'm a little calmer:

1. If they want/need to perform overly detailed "maintenance" to collect data about wear (which as you say may very well be a good idea), they shouldn't be charging customers for that. That is their development cost.

2. The $600 charge completely removes one of the major selling points of an electric vehicle: low maintenance cost. It is strange that they would undermine this so overtly.

RAY: "Have you seen my new car, Bob? It's a Tesla! It's electric!"
BOB: "Cool Ray! No combustion engine! No oil changes! It must cost nothing to maintain! I did the math and my Chevy costs about $500 a year to maintain. Crazy isn't it! "
RAY: "Well... Uh..."


3. They really need to lay out all hidden costs once and for all. What's the 3G plan? What's the supercharging plan?

 

[mal42north]

My gen-1 Prius has 182000 miles on it and I'm still only 2/3 of the way through the original brake pads. Can't imagine the S will do any worse. $600 in service fees is way more than I have ever paid. The Prius maintenance is typically less than $400 per year, and could be a lot less if I took it to an independent shop.

 

[aviators99]

It seems like once a month people on the forum make assumptions and react without all the facts. Snarkiness ensues. It must be that time again. My prediction is that George will post something to calm the waters like he always does. It might take a week or so.

"It seems like once a month people on the forum make assumptions and react without all of the facts. Snarkiness ensues. It must be that time again. My assumption without fact is that George will post something to calm the waters like he always does. It might take a week or so."

There, I fixed that for you.

 

[RDoc]

• The annual inspection service tech would on average spend 3-4 hours with your vehicle. This would include disassembly of various compartments and access to service-only components of the car. Not equivalent to the typical “29 point inspection”. A full checklist is being researched.
• It was confirmed that initially no loaner car will be available. However my request for a fleet of loaner Tesla Roadsters will be taken under advisement …

So we'll have the pleasure of sitting in a Tesla service center for half a day once a year while they inspect the car. Nice.

Of course, you could have someone pick you up and drop you off, or perhaps there'd be a nearby cocktail bar, or I suppose one of your servants could just do it for you.

For $70K + $600/yr one shouldn't expect anything more it seems.

 

[ElSupreme]

Ok I am starting to accept that the maintenance isn't really that big of a deal. It is expensive. I am disappointed. And I am really wondering/worried about what happens after 50,000 miles.

I went through almost exactly 8 years of VW maintenance, which is less than $450 per 12,500 miles. I traveled about 170,000 miles in my two VWs. But I remember my 2 services that were over $600 in that period. I paid them. And remember after a few weeks I was able to take the sting out of my finances. At least this will be rolled up in my financing of the car, and will be mostly invisible to me for 2.5 years.

 

[chmod a+wrx]

So we'll have the pleasure of sitting in a Tesla service center for half a day once a year while they inspect the car. Nice.

Of course, you could have someone pick you up and drop you off, or perhaps there'd be a nearby cocktail bar, or I suppose one of your servants could just do it for you.

For $70K + $600/yr one shouldn't expect anything more it seems.

this is just like getting my colonoscopy....i dread it for months....feel like i'm in a daze while it all happens...and afterwards, despite knowing I don't have cancer....just feel bloated and have the sharts for the rest of the day....

 

[contaygious]

It's not too bad, but the part I don't like is that I don't drive enough miles to justify yearly checkups. For over 100k I should get a few years free service.

Also, what about tire rotations? Don't they need a lift for that? Or are all tires the kind where you can't rotate them?

 

[brianman]

Because in an attempt for transparency they elect to give out Transforming Automotive Service | Blog | Tesla Motors information in a blog format (such that it is not necessarily complete). Then people here add their speculation based on incomplete information. The complaints stew for a while until George B comes to clarify.

I think I understand what you meant, but I take issue with use of the word 'early' when it speaks about preliminary servicing information being revealed after customers have taken delivery.

Edit: I meant servicing, not warranty. Corrected.

 

[v12 to 12v]

Someone posted a copy of the entire warranty document at Tesla Motors. I believe it was Rod and Barbara.

 

[Jason S]

Ok I am starting to accept that the maintenance isn't really that big of a deal. It is expensive. I am disappointed. And I am really wondering/worried about what happens after 50,000 miles.

I went through almost exactly 8 years of VW maintenance, which is less than $450 per 12,500 miles. I traveled about 170,000 miles in my two VWs. But I remember my 2 services that were over $600 in that period. I paid them. And remember after a few weeks I was able to take the sting out of my finances. At least this will be rolled up in my financing of the car, and will be mostly invisible to me for 2.5 years.

This is pretty much where I am at this point. I haven't had a car yet that had this kind of maintenance cost for the first few years but review with others makes this seem pretty normal for cars in the 100k price range. And I'm happy that the Ranger fees are very reasonable.

I marked myself down for the 'expected something like this' option, mostly because I was worried about Ranger mileage fees.

this is just like getting my colonoscopy....i dread it for months....feel like i'm in a daze while it all happens...and afterwards, despite knowing I don't have cancer....just feel bloated and have the sharts for the rest of the day....

And this one just made me burst out laughing.

 

[Beaker]

Thank you letting us in on your conversation. :biggrin:

I just got off the phone with a Tesla Ownership Experience Advocate (TOEA). This was in follow up to me speaking with my configuration consultant yesterday regarding my concerns and lack of understanding regarding the Tesla Service communication (9/10/12). While was the TOEA was not able to answer all of my questions he demonstrated diligence and proactive intent to provide greater clarity on remaining items.

Based on the discussion, he was able to articulate the following:
• The annual inspection service tech would on average spend 3-4 hours with your vehicle. This would include disassembly of various compartments and access to service-only components of the car. Not equivalent to the typical “29 point inspection”. A full checklist is being researched.
• From the announcement, I was quick to jump onto the disingenuous nature of the replacement parts claim (namely brakes). While it was not confirmed, the TOEA is checking into other items like XENON bulbs, Brake fluid or cooling system flush, etc. A full table of service intervals is being researched.
• My state requires a safety inspection annually (after the first 2 years). This is intended to check if the horn, blinkers, brakes, etc. are all functioning. Our state also requires SMOG testing. This will be confusing for the local independent guy to do, when they can’t locate the gas cap and OBDII port. The TOEA is checking into if this is to be included as part of the stated annual inspection. It would certainly prove more convenient, ensure another purpose for annual interaction and, I believe, provide Tesla owners a better overall experience.
• The features of System Monitoring and Remote Diagnostics, do actually occur using cellular based (3G) communications (not WIFI). This can occur on your vehicle weather you subscribe to the data package or not. Tesla is enabling this “channel” of radio communication as part of Tesla Service. For me this was value, and a complete missed point in Monday’s announcement.
• SW updates. I see three buckets: 1. bug fixes; 2. implementation of aforementioned features; 3. wholly new features. The TOEA stated with out a doubt, bucket 1 and 2 are included in the vehicle purchase. These are not annual service dependent and will be pushed when ready (i.e. testing completed). Bucket three is being researched. This also leads to the question if you are a pay $600 annually option, do you only get bucket 3 at the annual service? This is also being researched.
• We also discussed topics regarding what warranty is invalidated if I fail to service annually. This proves to be a grey area. It sounds like if not appearing for annual service causes a part to fail (e.g. battery cell overheats) than customer liable. If the part is not a service item (e.g. seat motor) and fails it will still be covered. Given that on the larger batteries warranty coverage extends beyond 4/50k, I asked for clarity on Tesla Service during years 5, 6, 7. This is being researched.
• It was confirmed that initially no loaner car will be available. However my request for a fleet of loaner Tesla Roadsters will be taken under advisement …

All in all, a very productive conversation in backing me off the ledge of walking away. Glad I was able to meet this TOEA and look forward to learning the responses on the outstanding items.

I encourage you to also reach out to Tesla directly. I got the impression they are having regular internal meetings/education sessions to respond to this situation. Your input and feedback will help them improve this sticky Tesla Service announcement.

 

[AustinPowers]

Ok I have a 6 year old car with 110,000 miles. Whenever the car is on and the parking brake isn't the HIDs are on. They still have life left in them. And are very bright. It appears that all HIDs are not created equal.

My thoughts exactly. I have never known anybody who has had to replace HID's at all, let alone after two years.

If Tesla was expecting the Model S HID's to last only two years, honestly they should change to a better supplier.
But actually I don't think Elon would allow such crappy hardware to be installed in the Model S. At least in that I still have absolute faith.

 

[jerry33]

My thoughts exactly. I have never known anybody who has had to replace HID's at all, let alone after two years.

I guess question is how many hours do you drive your car per year? HID bulbs last between 2000 and 3000 hours, which is a bit over two years driving for me these days (there are now some long life ones that last 4000 hours).

 

[AustinPowers]

I guess question is how many hours do you drive your car per year? HID bulbs last between 2000 and 3000 hours, which is a bit over two years driving for me these days (there are now some long life ones that last 4000 hours).

Wow, that IS a lot of driving. If my math is correct, 3000 hours equates to over 4 hours of driving (with HID's on that is) each night/dawn/dusk (you don't leave your HID's on during daytime, do you?) of every day for two years, correct?

I don't think the average car user drives such a lot during dusk/night/dawn every day. And of course one would think that people who drive that much would have leased company cars that are exchanged every about three years anyway.

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My best guess is the ones sold here are made in Mexico by $1.00/day workers while yours are made in Germany by workers who get a living wage. VW screwed me once--never again.

Fair enough.

 

[ElSupreme]

I guess question is how many hours do you drive your car per year? HID bulbs last between 2000 and 3000 hours, which is a bit over two years driving for me these days (there are now some long life ones that last 4000 hours).

My HIDs are ALWAYS on, they are my DRLs, and main beams. The only way to turn them off is to pull the parking brake. Every last mile, of my 110,000, have been driven with them on, not including sitting stopped with my car on. I have maybe driven about 1/4 mile with the parking brake on. So assume a 35-40 mph average over the life of the car that puts me around 3000 hours. Remember 2000 hours is a 40 hour a week job for a YEAR!

 

[AnOutsider]

My thoughts exactly. I have never known anybody who has had to replace HID's at all, let alone after two years.

If Tesla was expecting the Model S HID's to last only two years, honestly they should change to a better supplier.
But actually I don't think Elon would allow such crappy hardware to be installed in the Model S. At least in that I still have absolute faith.

I had one go about 2 months after getting my GLI. It was fixed free and didn't have any more problems after that,

 

[mknox]

My HIDs are ALWAYS on, they are my DRLs, and main beams. The only way to turn them off is to pull the parking brake. Every last mile, of my 110,000, have been driven with them on, not including sitting stopped with my car on. I have maybe driven about 1/4 mile with the parking brake on. So assume a 35-40 mph average over the life of the car that puts me around 3000 hours. Remember 2000 hours is a 40 hour a week job for a YEAR!

That sucks. My CTS has a separate set of DRL lamps so the HIDs are only on after dusk. I have had to replace a DRL bulb, but a lot less expensive than an HID I would imagine.

 

[spleen]

My thoughts exactly. I have never known anybody who has had to replace HID's at all, let alone after two years.

If Tesla was expecting the Model S HID's to last only two years, honestly they should change to a better supplier.
But actually I don't think Elon would allow such crappy hardware to be installed in the Model S. At least in that I still have absolute faith.

The HIDs in my Infiniti both went out after *10* years (within a few months of each other) and had to be replaced. But they were not used as DRLs. Cost about $1000+ each to replace including labor (Infiniti does not recommend user replacement).

 

[epley]

Amen, Bluetinc. I am an engineer, and the fact that Tesla wants to thoroughly inspect this thing every 12,500 miles impresses me, more than anything else. Yes, it hurts the wallet a bit, but I see it as buying a *major* peace of mind. However simple this drivetrain may be, it is new and a completely unknown quantity over many thousands of miles. We may know how brake rotors and pads wear on an ICE, or how ICE transmissions wear, but we know nothing about how a drive inverter wears over thousands of miles and hundreds of jackrabbit accelertions, do we? I will gladly pay Tesla to come my own house and inspect this car for a few hours a year, for the same amount I paid out of pocket over five years of owning my BMW, which had "free" 4-yr 50K mile maintenance included in the purchase price (and who knows what I paid for that). This is the price of being an early adopter, and I am fine with that...and thankful I won't have to pay Ranger fees as I had originally anticipated!

This is how I feel as well. Nicely stated!