Model S/X deliveries with Intel-based MCU

[Mr.D]

But Tesla are happy to sell ‘the future’. That is what I thought I was buying.

I completely agree with you, and I am in the same boat as you. I am expecting delivery this week or the next. In addition my car was scheduled to be delivered in January. Now I am facing a delayed delivery and to top it off, delivering and out to date car. I would be happy if Tesla would accept to forward my deposit towards a new order to show me some goodwill for the delay and make up for the double disappointment. It seems however, they will not allow me to forward my deposit, waiting for a final answer

In regards to Tesla's response. I understand that he can't comment on further updates, but I find it hard to believe that Tesla implements a new set of hardware without having a strategy regarding what to do with updates towards the old MCU units. So they could at least comment on a general level, what is the plan/strategy.

 

[mdelrossi]

Just got word. If I don’t take delivery of the old MCU, they won’t roll it over to a new custom order.

This is just totally ruining the experience. I wish I never knew about the upgraded MCU.

What is their reason why?

 

[MarkS22]

I don't understand this at all, a new version being out does not make the old version worse. It is not logical to enjoy your car less because you know there is a faster MCU out, especially since multiple people now confirmed that the latest software update made their old MCU more fluid and navigation faster. You should actually be happy since the car getting delivered is better than the car you ordered so you are getting more than you expected for your money.

I am getting my car in 2-3 weeks and it for sure has the old MCU as it was produced somewhere around January.

EDIT: Also some people seem to think that just because they moved over to the x64 platform that any optimization for the old MCU will not happen due to it being costly. That is not necessarily true as much of their code will most likely be the same code still. I do not know exactly what they changed but I imagine they have smart developers and have been planning for this move for a while.

If anything the latest update that made the old MCU better being released on the same day as the new MCU started being known would tell us that they are trying to narrow the gap.

Sure it can. After all, “speed” of the interface is perception. You base this perception on what you experience at the time. In 2012, it was comparable to all mobile consumer products and vastly superior to anything in the automotive arena.

Look at video game graphics. Or film special effects. You base quality against other comparable visuals. You’ll see rave reviews of video game graphics for the time that would be completely unacceptable 7 years later.

I’ve said it before, but nothing made me dislike the S more than the Model 3. The S didn’t get worse but it feels worse when something half the price is more responsive. Going back and forth between the two is embarrassing.

Also, Tesla has little history of supporting previous hardware. HW1 was supposed to have on-ramp to off-ramp, traffic signal and stop sign recognition... it hasn’t seen a significant upgrade in about a year. They tend to only include improvements that will also benefit the latest hardware.

 

[MP3Mike]

I am fully aware of the terms I have signed up to - why can you not just give an honest answer? “I do not know” or “I cannot guarantee that” would suffice.

Tesla's response: I trust that is clear. In short, we do not know. We can only speculate based on previous changes in the car’s configuration and take assurance in Tesla’s ambitions to maintain strong relations with all existing owners.

And my response

Steve,

Yet again no straightforward answer!!!

You specifically told them that saying "I don't know" would suffice, and then you complain when they say "We do not know"? Really? Talk about a moving target...

 

[evster]

Also, Tesla has little history of supporting previous hardware. HW1 was supposed to have on-ramp to off-ramp, traffic signal and stop sign recognition... it hasn’t seen a significant upgrade in about a year. They tend to only include improvements that will also benefit the latest hardware.

Main difference here is that Tesla did a "silent change" with the MCU. It is not stated anywhere and probably never will be. AP1 vs AP2 is a hard cut over where Tesla marketing has been very clear about the hardware upgrade and what it means. It will be extremely difficult to explain to consumers why their car e.g didn't get the latest 360 degree camera feature view just because they have older hardware than their neighbor who order the same car 2 weeks later and did get the feature. This will make just no sense. It would have if Tesla officially announce it and add some features in the Design Studio etc, but not by doing a silent hardware change.

With the MCU they probably will continue to develop the same GUI/Features, but it will be a bit slower on MCU1. I still believe that Tesla will push out improvements for browser and also vector maps for MCU1 which will close the gap a bit. Even if the Tegra 3 is a slower chip, it is still enough for what is required in a car. It just need code improvements.

Like I written before... we'll not see any differentiating features in the current Model S/X guise. This will have to wait until the next gen.

 

[Nickg]

Just got word. If I don’t take delivery of the old MCU, they won’t roll it over to a new custom order.

This is just totally ruining the experience. I wish I never knew about the upgraded MCU.

Tesla

Well, then, DS better make darn sure all the body panels are aligned and the welds are all clean.

I have bought 100k Range Rovers and Porsche’s in the UK. Tesla’s response to this is the pits - I thought they were better.

You specifically told them that saying "I don't know" would suffice, and then you complain when they say "We do not know"? Really? Talk about a moving target...

Do you work for Tesla? I have just asked them if I give them £100k ($140k) next week my car (with the Tegra MCU) will not be abandoned from a software or functionality update vs the x86 platform. Pretty reasonable question?

 

[GatorGuy]

Main difference here is that Tesla did a "silent change" with the MCU. It is not stated anywhere and probably never will be. AP1 vs AP2 is a hard cut over where Tesla marketing has been very clear about the hardware upgrade and what it means. It will be extremely difficult to explain to consumers why their car e.g didn't get the latest 360 degree camera feature view just because they have older hardware than their neighbor who order the same car 2 weeks later and did get the feature. This will make just no sense. It would have if Tesla officially announce it and add some features in the Design Studio etc, but not by doing a silent hardware change.

With the MCU they probably will continue to develop the same GUI/Features, but it will be a bit slower on MCU1. I still believe that Tesla will push out improvements for browser and also vector maps for MCU1 which will close the gap a bit. Even if the Tegra 3 is a slower chip, it is still enough for what is required in a car. It just need code improvements.

Like I written before... we'll not see any differentiating features in the current Model S/X guise. This will have to wait until the next gen.

Seems possible and I sure hope you are right.

 

[bhzmark]

The response:

No soup for you

And my response

Steve,

Yet again no straightforward answer!!!

I will publish this response on TMC. I will not agree a delivery unless you can give me an answer to my question:

‘Will future software development and functional changes will be lockstep across both hardware platforms?’

The ball is in your court. I am seriously disappointed with the ducking and diving. I have not asked for anything financially - just an honest answer which you have not provided.

Nick

 

[MarkS22]

Even if the Tegra 3 is a slower chip, it is still enough for what is required in a car. It just need code improvements.

Totally see where you’re coming from but if this was true, why even upgrade the chipset at all? Why did they never release a kernel upgrade with improved browser?

I suspect they’ve squeezed as much as they can realistically. If they didn’t optimize it over the past six years, why start now on a dead-end platform after newer hardware is out?

I think vector maps will help but it’s not going to change refresh rates of satellite maps or switching screens.

 

[Vedettes]

Was planning to take delivery of our MX Vin 904xx. Got a call from DS. We did get the upgraded MCU, but apparently they are putting a hold on deliveries due to a problem with the driver display going blank. Back to the waiting game.

 

[Nickg]

The response:

No soup for you

Yeah but for £100k ($140 - CAD$185} I expect more. I can’t believe you North Americans are a push over from a consumer rights issue?

 

[MarkS22]

They don't know. Tesla themselves might not even be 100% sure about that.

But if they ever plan on doing something like shown here are @3:50 I just don't see how the old one would be able to handle that.

This has really nice rendering speed, but Mercedes UX is horrible. When he was demoing the main instrument cluster, you can see it’s such a mess. The visuals for driver assist are so primitive and don’t give you true situational awareness. One car and a straight road only.

Put someone who has never used either and ask them to Navigate to a location on this Mercedes and then on any Tesla. It’s night and day. My three year old can open the sunroof on a Tesla. My six year old can easily select music to stream.

It’s a great example of how intelligent UX/UI design can be more important than processor speed.

(My wife’s car is a 2017 Mercedes.)

 

[Mr.D]

Totally see where you’re coming from but if this was true, why even upgrade the chipset at all? Why did they never release a kernel upgrade with improved browser?

I suspect they’ve squeezed as much as they can realistically. If they didn’t optimize it over the past six years, why start now on a dead-end platform after newer hardware is out?

I think vector maps will help but it’s not going to change refresh rates of satellite maps or switching screens.

I completely agree. I think (in fear of adding petrol to the fire) that those who believes Tesla will deliver an update that will majorly improve the performance are fooling them selves, and are arguing the opposite case because they do not want to acknowledge that they know are stuck with an inferior product.
Furthermore, do we have a public statement saying that MCU1 will get the new Vector maps and a new browser? As far as I know, Elon has only said they are working on new maps, and a solution to improve the browser.... withholding the fact that you need MCU2 to get this, makes it no farther from the truth.

 

[evster]

Totally see where you’re coming from but if this was true, why even upgrade the chipset at all? Why did they never release a kernel upgrade with improved browser?

I suspect they’ve squeezed as much as they can realistically. If they didn’t optimize it over the past six years, why start now on a dead-end platform after newer hardware is out?

I think vector maps will help but it’s not going to change refresh rates of satellite maps or switching screens.

Have we seen any improvements in the GUI since launch? During my 2 years of Tesla ownership I think it's all been the same. Same map with bitmaps etc. No noticeable optimizations along the line.

Personally I don't care about the satellite overlay or the browser. If the vector maps makes the map slightly faster that's great news. The zipping between menus is quite okay and I think they got a notch quicker in the latest release. Actually flipped around between them in my car today and thought it was really rather quick. Quick enough and nog laggy at least.

Of course the new Intel chip will always be faster. But my main point of view here is that the old MCU with some vector maps would not feel that much worse in normal usage. At least for me who never will use satellite overlay or browser even if I had the fastest processor in the world in my car

 

[Dutchie]

I have the old MCU. I drove yesterday and using the screen, I tried to be annoyed about the lack of speed. I wasn't and couldn't. The old MCU is pretty fast and will not disappoint in real life. So people receiving a car with the old MCU, don't be discouraged. You will have a great car with a super responsive screen!

 

[evster]

I completely agree. I think (in fear of adding petrol to the fire) that those who believes Tesla will deliver an update that will majorly improve the performance are fooling them selves, and are arguing the opposite case because they do not want to acknowledge that they know are stuck with an inferior product.
Furthermore, do we have a public statement saying that MCU1 will get the new Vector maps and a new browser? As far as I know, Elon has only said they are working on new maps, and a solution to improve the browser.... withholding the fact that you need MCU2 to get this, makes it no farther from the truth.

I assume you involve me in one of those who believe that upgrades will come for MCU1. And just to inform you, I have no reason to protect the MCU1. I'm actually sitting on the fence to hit the "order" button for a new Model S. But currently don't think the MCU-upgrade is enough. I want CCS-port for EU, new facelifted rear, maybe some more interior upgrades etc before I order. So will probably wait some more months.

Regarding the vector maps... according to @verygreen I remember that I read somewhere that it is just a parameter in the code to enable the vector based maps and that they currently are in hidden mode for us normal users. I think he did enable it on MCU1 and there is info in some thread here on TMC. Can't remember which one though.

When it concerns the browser upgrade, Elon has tweeted several times regarding that a upgrade is in the works to those who have complained how slow it is. I can't imagine he just on several occasions just made things up and was referring to a coming hardware change. That just don't make sens. There will for sure be some sort of software upgrade coming for all MCU1 owners. Be sure of that. And this I'm not saying because I hope so, just because I believe it will happen. I actually couldn't care less because I'll probably be in a new Model S with the new MCU2 in a couple of months anyway...

 

[evster]

Here is a link to the thread with Vector maps for MCU1 that was discussed in November last year...
Vector Maps incoming?

This is why I think the upgraded navigation will enable all this vector stuff when it comes along in due course... Tesla have said that a lot of improvements to the navigation is coming. This WILL roll out to MCUx. Those who believe otherwise can please raise a hand

 

[MP3Mike]

Was planning to take delivery of our MX Vin 904xx. Got a call from DS. We did get the upgraded MCU, but apparently they are putting a hold on deliveries due to a problem with the driver display going blank. Back to the waiting game.

I wonder if that gives us confirmation that the IC has been redesigned as part of the MCU refresh...

 

[MP3Mike]

Totally see where you’re coming from but if this was true, why even upgrade the chipset at all?

It is possible that the Tegra 3 is being end-of-lifed and that the supply of them will come to an end soon. Or it could be that they did the redesign as a cost cutting measure. (Replacing two Tegra systems with a single Intel Atom system?)

 

[MP3Mike]

Do you work for Tesla? I have just asked them if I give them £100k ($140k) next week my car (with the Tegra MCU) will not be abandoned from a software or functionality update vs the x86 platform. Pretty reasonable question?

No I do not work for Tesla. You asked a question and told them that you were OK with a "I do not know" answer, and then refused to accept the "I do not know" answer. Pretty unreasonable don't you think?