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Model X Crash on US-101 (Mountain View, CA)
- Thread starter mookhead
- Start date
jeffro01
Active Member
OMG... Tesla's update is monumentally concerning... Absolutely monumentally concerning. That should NOT HAPPEN. I immediately retract any previous statements and my confidence in AP is now considerably shaken. How in the hell can that happen? That simply can't happen and if it can, then it's time for Tesla to disable AP in ALL CARS until they can guarantee it won't happen again. I repeat, this Tesla "fanboy" has seen enough. This is disturbing... I love AP, I use it all the time and life would suck without it but this is unconscionable....
Flame away if you will...
I so monumentally disappointed in Tesla and Elon Musk right now, completely and utterly disgusted.
Jeff
EDIT: To be clear because I know I'm going to get piled on for my emotional reaction to the Tesla update, I don't expect any support for my stance and I fully understand where each and every rational and reasonable counterargument would come from. I really do get it.
Flame away if you will...
I so monumentally disappointed in Tesla and Elon Musk right now, completely and utterly disgusted.
Jeff
EDIT: To be clear because I know I'm going to get piled on for my emotional reaction to the Tesla update, I don't expect any support for my stance and I fully understand where each and every rational and reasonable counterargument would come from. I really do get it.
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Nope.
You cannot say anything about "touch the wheel" because there's no way to detect it! The "hands on wheel" detection there is now depends on you actually trying to steer (or otherwise try to put some torque on the steering wheel). As for the "could see the barrier" - again, there was sun in the eyes, coming from under bridge and such - so we cannot really assume that either.
Yep, my thoughts exactly. I'm thinking the driver may have told the car, with a double detent on the lane change stalk, to enter the gore (is that what it is called?) area. Tesla will have this data however if that was the case. Other than that I don't see how the car was on autopilot in a non-lane **IF** it was in autopilot for at least a 1/2 mile prior to impact.
zmarty
Member
Calm down, Autopilot is at the moment a driver's aid. It has multiple limitations, including not stopping for stationary objects and misdetecting lanes. It is what it is. It is not a self-driving car and Tesla made this very clear. Once I get my Model 3, I plan to have a discussion with any driver that will use my car and explain the limitations to them.
I do not understand how you have 2K comments in this forum and still react that way, you should know the limits of AP by now.
And that smart cushion is a small thing to notice. In the "day before" dash-cam picture that Tesla previously posted you can see that someone tried to mark it with a cone (on the right) but you can see that it had been knocked over. Orange traffic cones are not a reliable way to mark hazards for weeks while we wait for them to repair it.
And Tesla's picture looks like an afternoon image with sun lighting up the barrier. The crash happened in the morning with the sun behind and barrier in the shadow.
Also, sometimes that barrier has been left with no warning markers at all...
( Note, somebody else died there in November 2015 )
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You don't get hands on wheel warnings in TACC only. Tesla stated he had been warned prior to the accident.
They did not specify the timeline. it's entirely possible the warnings were long ago and autosteer was enabled and disabled in the interim multiple times. The only clear thing we know is at the time of impact autopilot (I assume autosteer) was enabled.
Tam
Well-Known Member
Autopilot might mistaken the gore point that could fit a car as a lane--a lane enclosed by solid white lines on each side--picture from @NeverFollow displayed earlier:
Autopilot is not perfected.
Incrementally, autopilot will get better.
In the mean time, please expect the unexpected!
Second AP fatality (in China) described here:
Autopilot Cited in Death of Chinese Tesla Driver
Actual dashcam video of the death midway down the page here:
Tesla 'Autopilot' crash which killed Chinese driver shown in new footage | Daily Mail Online
Autopilot Cited in Death of Chinese Tesla Driver
Actual dashcam video of the death midway down the page here:
Tesla 'Autopilot' crash which killed Chinese driver shown in new footage | Daily Mail Online
P100DHG.
Member
This question may have been asked and answered somewhere in the 50 pages of this thread
Did the Model X involved the fatal crash have AP1 or 2?
Did the Model X involved the fatal crash have AP1 or 2?
Regarding the warnings. I actually looked thru the manual a bit more (eating dinner but trying to follow discussion) and saw that you are always supposed to have your hands on the wheel when Autosteer is active. After how many seconds of not having your hands on it will you get a warning?
Tam
Well-Known Member
I think this case is still in court to determine whether Autopilot was involved. There's a dash cam but it did not record any Autopilot bells to indicate whether it was turn on or off.
Tesla wanted to access the vehicle log but the family wanted a third party to do that.
And that's where we are: awaiting for accessing the car log.
I would not be surprised if Autopilot was involved because again, it is beta and imperfect, but until the car log is retrieved, it's just speculation.
It depends on a lot of things, like how confident AP is, curvature of road, ... could be over a minute, I think.
That said, autopilot does not know if you are holding the wheel or not! Try holding the wheel but not resist any movements of the wheel in autosteer mode and you'll get the nag about placing your hands on the steering wheel.
P100DHG.
Member
"In the US, there is one automotive fatality every 86 million miles across all vehicles from all manufacturers. For Tesla, there is one fatality, including known pedestrian fatalities, every 320 million miles in vehicles equipped with Autopilot hardware. If you are driving a Tesla equipped with Autopilot hardware, you are 3.7 times less likely to be involved in a fatal accident."
It is with certainty AP equipped Tesla will crash and lead to fatalities. When driver pays attention, AP provides extra level of safety. Data shows indeed most drivers pay attention, but unfortunately there are times both AP and driver fail to prevent an accident.
It is with certainty AP equipped Tesla will crash and lead to fatalities. When driver pays attention, AP provides extra level of safety. Data shows indeed most drivers pay attention, but unfortunately there are times both AP and driver fail to prevent an accident.
Another streetview picture showing someone drifting to the left towards the gore area:
( There is a reason why the paint is so worn down there... People keep driving over it either by mistake or to pass a car in front of them. )
( There is a reason why the paint is so worn down there... People keep driving over it either by mistake or to pass a car in front of them. )
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