Model X mule(s) show signs of nVidia Tegra X1 Drive PX platform - no rear mirror!

[AnxietyRanger]

The body panels on this seem to fit pretty well. Could those be microphones for noise testing? If they were camera, you would expect them just to use GoPros.

Your guess is as good as mine.

As for the cameras, Tesla has a history of using Logitech cameras:

Model S test mule with multiple cameras

I could swear I recall a recent sighting with some cameras strapped/suction-cupped on the outside of Model S or X (mule), perhaps near the front mirror area, but couldn't find it now. Seeing that setup again might make it easier to compare to this video, so if anyone remembers / find same, please share.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I could swear I recall a recent sighting with some cameras strapped/suction-cupped on the outside of Model S or X (mule), perhaps near the front mirror area, but couldn't find it now. Seeing that setup again might make it easier to compare to this video, so if anyone remembers / find same, please share.

The post that you are looking for...http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/48710-Test-car-spotted-with-new-sensors

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The post that you are looking for...http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/48710-Test-car-spotted-with-new-sensors

Thank you, that was it - much appreciated.

It does look like they are testing a 360 degree all-around camera setup of sorts. It also looks very different from the Model X mule setup.

That said, I still think I can see at times the generic shape of the Logitech kind of camera with perhaps gorillapod-like suction-cup mount in the Model X video. Compare the below:

Or maybe I'm just seeing things and those are some aero mapping sensors or - as someone suggested - noise microphones instead (I have no idea if such exist, just relaying the suggestion).

 

[AnxietyRanger]

A good bit about sensor suite 2 and of course on some of the type of confidential information Tesla offers to some lucky individuals:

Info on Autopilot + v7 from a Tesla employee

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Just so it won't get lost in the large sightings thread, maybe we could speculate on the rear radar (?) being related to the hole in the Model X bumper... Also look at those several frontal cameras again, a little new kind of setup, though.

Green light (autonomous driving) on the roof?

Of course we have speculated (and also seen a Model S mule where) this hole was about towing... (E.g. hole to inspect retractable towing mechanism during testing.)

The last picture seems to be the same car spotted in SF recently. Note the stickers on rear window and hole in bumper

Based on this thread (with a modified Model S), it looks like the hole in the bumper is probably for laser scanning hardware.

That "square hole" in some mules' rear bumper could be where the feed cable goes. ...I'd buy that camper.
You heard it here first!

Rick

Based on pictures in another thread, the square hole looks to be the rear laser scanner.

I was on a road-trip from Redmond to the Bay area this past February (2015). Stopped at the Mt. Shasta Supercharger/BestWestern Tree House hotel and saw this black test car. I didn't talk to any of the Tesla team that was there. The black one was the only car with all the test gear on it. All three of the cars were convoying together and there were also support trucks as well.

I snapped these pictures. There were black squares all around the car (the one on the rear of the car looks kind of like a black square that was in one of the Model X pictures in the X forum Mule thread). There was also gear from this company: Start - Ibeo Automotive Systems in the trunk of the car. My theory is that this may be a benchmark car that Tesla is using to gather data about how a very expensive laser scanner system performs vs. the software/hardware systems they are developing. I wouldn't imagine they would use a full sensor suite of laser scanners all around the car as the cost of the system would be quite expensive. But who knows? View attachment 88087View attachment 88088View attachment 88089View attachment 88090View attachment 88091View attachment 88092View attachment 88093View attachment 88094View attachment 88095

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My guess:

In the upper setup Tesla is testing all-around cameras for parking. This is a separate option or system from autonomous driving or driving aids. In the below picture I expect Tesla testing autonomous driving. Mind you, nVidia DRIVE PX is probably not involved even though it was the initial guess (probably too new), more likely seems a comibination of other technologies, perhaps some upgraded nVidia hardware included though.

 

[Blurry_Eyed]

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My guess:

In the upper setup Tesla is testing all-around cameras for parking. This is a separate option or system from autonomous driving or driving aids. In the below picture I expect Tesla testing autonomous driving. Mind you, nVidia DRIVE PX is probably not involved even though it was the initial guess (probably too new), more likely seems a comibination of other technologies, perhaps some upgraded nVidia hardware included though.

I believe the system I saw at Mt. Shasta on the car pictured above was this: Ibeo LUX Fusion System - AutonomouStuff - Your Single Source Supplier for Autonomy Components
So the boxes around the car don't contain cameras, they actually contain laser scanners that are designed to be fused together for all around vision through various weather conditions and provide the visualization around the car that allows for fully autonomous driving. This is primarily based on my observation of the Ibeo gear in the trunk of the car. I think the camera system that was mounted on the rear view mirror in the car was for benchmarking as it appears to be a fairly high end tri-camera system. If I were Tesla, I would use the car as a benchmark car and then see if I could get much lower cost hardware, or some combination of maybe one or two laser scanners (rather than 6) and the ultrasonics and some relatively inexpensive off-the-shelf cameras to replicate the performance to say maybe 80% or 90% of the much more expensive gear. Then I would trust that over time, the software algorithms could improve the performance of the lower cost system as I kept tweaking the software, gathering real data and observations from cars in the fleet and applying that knowledge to keep updating the code.

So perhaps the X will end up sporting two laser scanners (one in front of the car and one in back), a stereo camera system in the Rear view mirror area (or additional cameras all around the car) and ultrasonics around the car rather than a simple forward camera system with ultrasonics only.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Good post and theory, Blurry_Eyed. Thank you.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Better view of those cameras? And a rear-view mirrorless Model X here as well. Camera locations could support some kind of all-around view. Again, reminder of the DRIVE PX map... although DRIVE PX will perhaps not be the actual technology in Model X, it may well be something else like EyeQ3 + lesser nVidia combo or perhaps those other speculated autonomous-driving brands come into play...

But compare this map to the video's camera rigs, for one reference on where manufacturers tend to place such cameras:

shot a Model X today in Berkeley

sorry for poor video (cop was behind me)

got a shot of the frontend in the end
Tesla Model X Berkeley 21 July 2015 - YouTube

Thank you for braving the cop. This is a great, great video with good quality close-ups of all the pertinent areas. It also confirms there seems to be several cameras suction-cupped there. A good look at the spoiler too, which looks quite plasticy, probably not final parts or lacks paint. To me the front looks the same as always, perhaps a little more finalized, but of course it is in a camo wrap - still, a great look at it. As for those cameras, they indeed are in locations that could support all-around view, but it could be pretty much anything since we can't see any cameras inside finalized trim. Interior is Model S, as seen before, and probably nothing final.

Perhaps in some way seeing cars with suction-cup cameras this late in the game could suggest they are not ready to show finalized panels with cameras, which could either mean they are hiding them, or they are not yet ready. Former could be exciting for those expecting significant changes between mule and production, latter could be scary for those who fear delays and/or lack of features in initial Model X production.

Interesting to see what comes eventually out!

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Oh - and no rear-view mirror (1:17).

 

[NigelM]

These Bosch videos have been around for a while but I don't recall them being posted here:

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Not to crowd the other thread with Model S images, this potential rear side-sensor comparison seemed interesting to me - of course having rear corner radars/etc. is an expected next step for auto-pilot sensor suite and an old thing on the Germans:

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Thank you NigelM for the great video! Was new to me.

 

[NigelM]

Thank you NigelM for the great video! Was new to me.

Wasn't one of those older leaked photos believed to have been taken in Michigan? Bosch also has locations in the same area and well.....

http://www.bosch-mobility-solutions.com/en/de/index.html

Edit: yeah that old leak was assumed to be at Gentex, but they also already work closely with Bosch and supply many Bosch components. Who knows.....

 

[timf]

The Bosch facilities are only about a mile away from where I spotted the Model X. I see prototype vehicles from various manufacturers coming and going from there all the time.

 

[Sosius]

These Bosch videos have been around for a while but I don't recall them being posted here:

Not to get too far off-topic, but do you think the interface shown in the top video is v7? It kind of matches the description given by Footbag in another thread (flat, black background, etc).

 

[Uncle Paul]

When I was a kid, and a house fuse blew, we just put a copper penny in it's place until we could get a proper replacement. Maybe we could do that with our Teslas and get Ludicrus speed. (Kidding of course...kinda)

Maybe to replace Iconal we could need to use a Nickle : >)

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Good speculation about Bosch.

Anyway, a under-mirror camera spotted? Tesla sure tests MANY different camera locations on the mules... This particular camera location is used by competition for all-around parking camera side views FWIW.

Camera under the mirror housing?
View attachment 89037

 

[NigelM]

Good speculation about Bosch.

None of what I posted about Bosch was speculation, it's fact with links and videos. You may speculate on what it means if you wish.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

None of what I posted about Bosch was speculation, it's fact with links and videos. You may speculate on what it means if you wish.

Acknowledged. Nothing ill was meant by me, quite the contrary.

To be clear, my reference was to Gentex vs. Bosch Michigan pondering.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

To recap my speculation from 2015 after the Autopilot 2.0 reveal, I think some things of note:

1. Tesla was testing an intermediate plan as well as later iterations. I posted earlier speculation about AutoPilot 1.5 that added to this. Elements that were tested in-between seemed to be at least:

- Rear-view camera on the roof of the Model X in first after-launch PR images. This was in the infamous area of the green sticker. It may have been a Gentex rear-view mirror camera to improve rear visibility or it may have been a part of some Level 3 (but not 5) capable Autopilot "1.5".

- Dual front cameras. Of course these were seen in the same initial Model X launch PR images and a casing was seen in the shipping Autopilot 1 Model X cars. This was likely still a second iteration Mobileye based system (perhaps with improved pedestrian and sign/lights detection that Elon talked about at the interview at the nVidia event when referencing to things they're working on for the Model X in 2015) that was abandoned - maybe due to the delays at Mobileye that Elon referred to as high engineering drag coefficient. Maybe this was the Elon visit at Mobileye in the spring, the last chance to see whether or not they'd ship this system with the Model S facelift or abandon it. They famously abandoned it, of course.

- Rear radars. There were imagery suggesting Tesla testing rear corner radars in the hauled desert Model X mule as well as in some of the Model S mules seen. Whether or not these would have been a part of an intermediate Autopilot "1.5" update or related to validation/verification/technology selection for Autopilot 2.0 is unknown.

2. The Autopilot 2.0 as shipped actually matches the nVidia DRIVE PX speculation in this thread from 2015 quite well. Look at the image below from 2015. It appears the white Model X mule that started this thread and/or one of the Model S mules later in this thread with multi-camera setups may well have been sporting early DRIVE PX testing equipment, while some other mules may have been running Autopilot 1.5 (the ones with dual front cameras and rear radars). The location of the side camera that was spotted in this thread matches the location of the Autopilot 2.0 front-facing side camera of course.

Whether or not some of the elements, the top-mounted rear-view camera, the rear corner radars might still appear in a future iteration of Tesla vehicles is a good question. I am leaning on no at this stage - they probably were part of an intermediate Autopilot "1.5" that was being tested or technology selection/validation for Autopilot 2.0 that did not make the cut.

That said, added radar coverage for a future Autopilot "3.0" would not be out of the question, of course. Even ignoring the Lidar question, radar coverage is one area were Tesla's solution is clearly trailing the future self-driving plans of e.g. Volvo and Audi.