Model X mule(s) show signs of nVidia Tegra X1 Drive PX platform - no rear mirror!

[EVenthusiast]

Based on my own experiences with dash cams, CCTV, etc. (but NO experience with self-driving vehicles), and on a quick check of the 930e specs (not much data available), I think lack of support for extreme operating temps, and the 90" FOV are some of the main reasons these cameras won't be useful for actual testing.

The way they are configured, I think they are trying to create a (partial?) 360" recording, so they can go back in time and see what exactly what was going on (or maybe even use it to build a virtual test lab).

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Based on my own experiences with dash cams, CCTV, etc. (but NO experience with self-driving vehicles), and on a quick check of the 930e specs (not much data available), I think lack of support for extreme operating temps, and the 90" FOV are some of the main reasons these cameras won't be useful for actual testing.

The way they are configured, I think they are trying to create a (partial?) 360" recording, so they can go back in time and see what exactly what was going on (or maybe even use it to build a virtual test lab).

Sure.

In which case this could be a mule for radar and stereo front ADAS testing, for example, with extra cameras for later verification.

Thank you for the theory, it does make some sense.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Continue previous:

- "A car manufacturer" mentioned around 28:30
- 28:55 mentions EyeQ3 on Tesla last year and Audi Q7
- At 29:40 two Tegra X1 chipped design is shown, to be launched in 2016 on Audi
- DRIVE PX has an EyeQ3 on card around 30:00
- Tegra X1 used for parking (advanced all-around view video processing?)
- Comparison of EyeQ3 and Tegra X1 starting around 30:30
- EyeQ4 mentioned 34:00 coming out as samples in October this year

He does not mention DRIVE PX itself, but talks only of Tegra X1 which DRIVE PX has two.

I think it seems likely Model X has both nVidia and Mobileye chip(s). The big question, how do they differ from what is in Model S at the moment...

The YouTube thread has interesting debate on nVidia vs. Mobileye.

Been thinking about this a bit more and looking at some sources. Be it EyeQ3, EyeQ4, DRIVE PX or some other technology, or a combination of them all, a couple or excerpts that suggest to me Model X will usher in an auto-pilot 2:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/40893-The-X-will-have-a-step-beyond-what-we%C2%92re-currently-shipping-on-the-autonomous-front

“The X will have a step beyond what we’re currently shipping on the autonomous front,” Musk said. “There are a whole bunch of things about the X that have not been revealed.”

Elon Musk says next years Tesla cars will be able to self-drive 90 percent of the time | The Verge

Autonomous cars will definitely be a reality. A Tesla car next year will probably be 90 percent capable of autopilot. Like, so 90 percent of your miles can be on auto. For sure highway travel.

How's that going to happen?

With a combination of various sensors. You combine cameras with image recognition with radar and long-range ultrasonics, that'll do it. Other car companies will follow.

But you guys are going to be the leader?

Of course. I mean, Tesla's a Silicon Valley company. If we're not the leader, shame on us.

The latter doesn't sound like just a software update to current auto-pilot. The EyeQ3 in Model S certainly can do more than it currently does, but the rest of its sensor suite is very small. Alone the fact that today Tesla auto-pilot is only comprised just of one forward radar, one forward camera, one rear camera and twelve ultrasonic sensors. It just makes sense Model X will usher in something more. For example, an average high-end Audi in comparison has for the past years shipped with four radars (two front, two back), five or so cameras and the ultrasonics.

 

[NigelM]

Thread title indicates "no rear mirror" but there's definitely something there on this particular mule/prototype:

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Thread title indicates "no rear mirror" but there's definitely something there on this particular mule/prototype:

View attachment 82150

There is. It has been noted, this latest black mule does not have the bumper/B pillar cameras the white one had - and the black one also has the mirror.

So the white mule is with all-around cameras and no mirror. I doubt that is a coincidence.

Now, which technology they use to accomplish and whether or not the rear-mirrorless or all-around view for Model X ships initially, remains to be seen.

But I do think they are testing both. A Technology pack or Parking sensors pack kind of difference maybe? Or merely the age / focus of the particular mule being different?

Here are views of the white:

 

[EchoDelta]

If they are testing anything regarding visibility and situational awareness of the driver, I really do hope that they make an effort to test it in foggy, rainy, glary, grimy and snowy conditions.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Latest shots show possible B pillar camera hole and no rear view mirror:

Model X Mule Sightings - Page 53

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Great imagery from Jersey Girl show the missing rear-view mirror on another (?) white mule. Great job Jersey Girl!

This allows us to sharpen our observations on previous mules too: +1 for missing rear-view mirror on this mule, -1 for B pillar camera observation.

There is a large hole and missing trim where we have previously witnessed what looked to us like a top B pillar camera. However, with the new data, I believe we are witnessing this very hole in the previous images as well. Also, a missing rear-view mirror might of course just mean it hasn't been installed on this particular car yet.

Here's the blowup:

Here is what an assumed missing sensor looks on the front wheelwell - similar hole left by the missing sensor. However, in the case of the top B pillar, the hypothesis of a camera or sensor there is not necessarily the likeliest one - it could be an attachment point for the missing side panel as well.

I guess it isn't completely impossible the hole might be for a B pillar side-facing camera. However, it seems clear there wasn't a camera there at the time of the original sighting. We know there is a hole. It'd be fun to check out other car's structures and see if they have a similar hole just for clipping in the window side panel? Or if it could signify something more. I'm leaning on missing trim only.

For comparison here are the earlier shots of missing rear view mirror and what looked like a top B pillar camera - in some images it looks like two squares in the top B pillar area, but the other one may just be a reflection of this hole:

Then there is a black mule that had the rear-view mirror, none of what look like a foglight area bumper camera and no evident B pillar camera either, that too for reference:

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Now that we have determined to B pillar spot to be merely a hole - and thus can't really speculate much - I took another look at the front foglight area with better scalings and higher-quality source images I was able to find. Also, I took a look at what the apparent ultrasonics in the rear of the car look like for comparison.

The white spot in top right is probably nothing, and the wheelwell sensor probably just the front side ultrasonic, even though BMW 7 has a camera in this exact spot. What I'm left pondering is what is that round thing to the left of the foglight. Maybe just an ultrasonic without its cover?

To me it looks like it is recessed inside a circle, but basically similar element as the front wheelwell round thing. It could just be an ultrasonic sensor without its cover, placed in a new location. Unfortunately the rear offers no real help, it has usually covered ultrasonics, that do look different than these two sensors in the front - leaving open the chance that the front sensors might be something else.

However, since I can't see any other ultrasonics on the front - and there should be six of them (unless they are hidden by camo or the overexposure) - I think it is possible these two blackish round things are ultrasonic sensors. Either current ones or the long-range ultrasonics mentioned in some Tesla speech perhaps.

This mule has been seen doing active lane keeping in the videos, and nose bumper cameras would have fit nicely with this, but it is also possible it was doing this with the usual top front camera, although the mule looks like it may not have that camera in the usual position...

So, I unfortunately I don't know if we are yet seeing Tesla's answer (whenever it may come) to the all-around camera feature in these pictures. If such exists in the mules seen, it has eluded us. The missing rear-view mirror is intriguing of course, but since the rear window is camoed, I doubt they could be testing a new top rear camera either.

Of course, there remains the Model S camera mule to pique our interest still.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I went through the Palo Alto video of the (same?) mule and while I could easily spot the rear ultrasonics, no other ultrasonic-lookalikes could be seen on the front than the wheelwell and foglight sensors. Which, I guess, could suggest they are just ultrasonics and not cameras.

What is interesting, though, is that this car is clearly doing lane-keeping testing but the top of the windshield shows only a slim patch here we'd expect the front camera to be. And one can't follow lanes with ultrasonics of course.

tesla model x in palo alto - YouTube

I wonder what the exact setup on that car is and what are we missing.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Here is a working theory for the locations of Model X ultrasonics on this mule, if they are that - compared to an auto-pilot Model S. In this scenario I'm assuming they are ultrasonics and not cameras, although all this is speculation of course:

I checked out the black mule video too - Tesla Model X Prototype May 8 2015 - YouTube - and was able to make out the front wheelwell "sensor" on the opposite side as well, but the resolution isn't enough to determine more about the front sensors overall.

- - - Updated - - -

Here are the three different rearview spottings we've seen, two missing the mirror having "badges" in its place (these two may possible be the same car), one with the mirror and a more substantial camera/rain sensor assembly.

It is of course possible that the cars missing the mirror are only missing it because the mirror assembly wasn't ready yet.

Sources:
http://www.leftlanenews.com/photos/auto/tesla-model-x-picture-11-1.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diLU5DMeKuE
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/45281-Model-X-mule(s)-show-signs-of-nVidia-Tegra-X1-Drive-PX-platform-no-rear-mirror!?p=1024493&viewfull=1#post1024493

 

[vandacca]

AR, its been my experience that if the sensor is very black (no light is reflected back) and shiny, its likely a lens to a camera. If the sensor is similar to the surrounding paint and a matte finish, then its an ultrasonic sensor. Therefore, I would expect that the sensor ahead of the front tire is likely a camera. With regards to the sensor next to the fog lights, there is no need to have an ultrasonic sensor with so much custom hardware around it (IMHO), so I would say thats a camera as well.

While I'm expressing my opinion, I might as well indicate that I feel that the "hole" on the B-pillar is also the location of a camera. In past photos, that location looked very shiny.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Yep, one can certainly see what look like lenses there, but missing or unfinalized trim - together with poor or distant camera quality - has done tricks before. Hopefully we'll get better images shortly.

But I think it also needs to be said: It is possible this mule doesn't have any extra cameras in the marked areas, but ultrasonic sensors and/or missing trim instead.

For example, the fog-light ultrasonic might be a part of the same "grille" that extends next to the foglight on the Model S as well (only part of it is camoed away) and might just miss its color-matching cover.

This is speculation, of course.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

OK, so the prototype in the latest video obviously is the one spotted by Jersey Girl on May 27th.

2015-06-05 Tesla Model X (Pre-production) - YouTube

You can see the same window stickers but most importantly the same broken front wheelwell trim. There was talk this mule came on a trailer with Michigan plates, so perhaps it had been testing out of state, it was speculated. The stickers on the windows perhaps suggest this is not a mule we have seen before, although of course stickers are easy to add. If it is a previously seen mule, it could be this one but that lacks the B pillar stuff I mention below.

The video is too low resolution to suggest much new - although one can see on the video this mule also has the full glass, spoiler area protrusion and blinking-on-camera rear lights suggesting LED lighting - so the best we can start with is the JerseyGirl photo. There are in fact two JerseyGirl photos of this mule from slightly different angles/places.

On the topic of the speculative "auto-pilot 2", there are a couple of speculative locations of suspect on this mule. Of what I now assume are the new locations of ultrasonics and not bumper cameras, the foglight ultrasonic seems to be there, but the front wheelwell sensor is missing. The third, which has been hard to see on the white-clad mules is not visible in this photo due to - I assume - low resolution and lighting. What is interesting, and not seen on previous white mules, are several protrusions in the area where auto-pilot Model S cars have their front radars. On the white mule, this area has been empty. Of course, this could just be broken or missing trim, and could mean nothing new. In this image we also get a peek at the camouflaged nose cone area, whatever that means.

The second question is that of the B pillar. As we have previously seen, the white-clad mules have had a large rectangular hole in this area suggesting perhaps just a trim connection point or, as has been speculated, a B pillar camera slot. Indeed, many previously seen Model X mules have had odd protrusions and cabling in the front window area - as does this mule too. The top trim piece does not quite fit in and a small square or circle is peaking underneath that panel of trim. Notably, that is not the location of the hole we have witnessed in previous mules, which was located more to the left. Also, on the opposite side, a piece of wiring can be seen hanging out, connecting to the B pillar - that, of course, could be unrelated and only have to do with missing interior trim on the rear.

On the video, this area of the trim is acting out very oddly too - almost as if there is some sticker on the window, not trim under the window, and some rectangular or circulater darker/lighter spots can be seen. The window is now closed, it was open in the JerseyGirl photos.

Could be nothing, of course.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I took another look at the B pillar area where we've spotted the mystery square hole on white mules, the mystery circle on the black mule and another time on the latter mule a speculated sticker covering this area. A set of photos with labels at the end of this message.

It seems that the speculated sticker over the mule window is there to cover the area where we previously witnessed a hole, that (at least at some point) was speculated to house a B pillar camera. On the JerseyGirl photo of the same black mule (the window stickers and front wheelwell damage seem to match) we can see a piece of badly fitting trim covering this area, but a protrusion coming underneath instead. On the video this badly fitting piece of trim seems to be replaced by a sticker/tape simulating the same shape over the actual window itself. In the video (the topmost black mule image below) there doesn't seem to be this trim under the window glass at all, but it is missing like on the white mule, although the speculated sticker over the window seems hides this partially.

Finally, we have seen another older black mule sighting with black, final-looking trim covering the hole area completely. This piece of trim seems to be similar to the badly fitting trim on the JerseyGirl mule.

I'm not personally at all comfortable at saying this is necessarily a camera. I would expect a camera on the B pillar to work best if it were a fisheye outside of the B pillar trim, not underneath the front window where it couldn't "bulge" out of the side of the car. In fact, the middle image with a protruding circle would be closer to where I'd expect a camera (a little right of it on the external glossy front door trim). But I am just noting what is there and something seems to be actively being done to this area of the mules.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The latest Model X sighting, the one posted by apparently a Michigan poster seems to feature the same or similar Model X as the Jersey Girl sighting that came off a Michigan plated truck reportedly.

The latest mule sighting does not have the broken front wheelwell sensor area, but it does have the same sticker in the front door window. It also features the same trim in the top right corner of the front door that is slightly ajar, like on the Jersey Girl sighting, suggesting something peeking underneath. The resolution makes it hard to tell, but it could have the same circular feature as the Jersey Girl mule does.

It is possible these are the same mules, or mules from the same / similar fleet. Of course, the wheels are different, which may or may not mean anything.

My earlier notes on this mule - just to be clear, I don't think this is an intentional leak, but I just posted notes to consider that possibility as well.

Thank you for sharing.

Key takeaways from the latest sighting:

- The overall shape of the mule is the same as we've seen since the beginning of 2015, suggesting this is the direction we'll probably see upon reveal...
- Nosecone question inconclusive. It is probably the same camoed shape we have seen on the mules, so it is probably wrapped, missing parts of the trim and may or may not contain a traditional nosecone in the final version (I guess one alternative could be, a front bumper shaped like a nosecone without an actual separate element) - I'm leaning on a nosecone being there
- The falcon wings seem the new lighted design as teased by the update photo from last fall, the design is notably lighter compared to the 2012-2013 prototype, falcon wing moonroof window(s) are there, not that we ever expected them to not be, but it hadn't really been confirmed prior to this
- Windshield glass all the way to the falcon wings is there and would seem to be without a cross-beam around A pillars, but seems still camoed to hide this
- Rear-view mirror is there, although it doesn't seem it has final trim around it yet
- There is a circle on the top of the B pillar exterior, which I guess could be a camera, but also it could be mere artifact from camera/compression and/or reflection - I'm leaning on it being nothing, if there is an all-around camera system (which seems likely), we probably haven't seen it in action yet (not properly at least)
- The photo isn't wide enough and the resolution isn't high-enough to make out anything new about front bumper-area sensors or cameras, but the front wheelwell sensor certainly looks merely an ultrasonic
- I can make out only two second-row seats, is this an executive edition (some SUVs have such an option for second row) or is the third seat folder/swiveled whatnot away
- I can't make out a third row in this, but it could of course just be folded away - we have seen evidence of third-row neckrest silhouettes on rear-shot mule images. Of course the interesting question isn't whether or not there will be a third-row, which we know there will be, but whether or not it is optional and what that option might mean for the second-row.
- This is the first we've seen of the new falcon wing locking mechanism, the 2012-2013 prototypes used to have these rails on the bottom of the B pillar (those might still be there of course) but here we can see what looks like the locking mechanism on the hemline of the car that didn't seem to be there on the old prototypes
- Michigan location for the poster would jive with the fact that JerseyGirl sightings had Michigan truck plates and we speculated Tesla has been testing in Michigan
- Loved the USE EXHAUST HOSE when running engine, suggests this may be a more of a generic facility and perhaps the photo was taken by an outsider - maybe a place Tesla rents/buys services from? Wild speculation, of course. Could be just a Tesla facility that has been used with ICEs as well, we know the history of their factory etc. of course.
- Is it possible the non-wrapped driver's seat isn't the same as the other wrapped seats, it doesn't seem impossible they might borrow a driver's seat from Model S while hiding other production seats at this stage. Then again, maybe they are all final or near-final seats.
- Shot being taking without fully showing front suggests perhaps an intentional leak and/or hiding of a front plate, the only other reason (beyond accident) would be a front license plate perhaps?

Any other notes?

 

[thegruf]

this thread - looks like sonebody is playing with new cameras maybe 360 view

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/48710-Test-car-spotted-with-new-sensors

 

[AnxietyRanger]

This mule seems to have the Model S tested multiple cameras on top of the front window as well as potential new sensors/cameras near the foglights:

Brian (TslaUp) on StockTwits

- - - Updated - - -

Here is the Model S "mule" reference:

The nose-cone camo depressions reminds me of the mock-up:

 

[AnxietyRanger]

We have some new video of a Model X mule test setup.

Unfortunately the video is only 720p, so worse than usual for video. That said, the sighting itself is quite unique as far as I call tell, with the test rigging it has.

Now, one could imagine these are cameras - especially the B pillar and front corner locations have been spied or speculated with potential all-around cameras there - but I guess we can't rule out aero mapping sensors etc. either.

There seems to be a fourth one by the front mirror. The video also shows the setup on the opposite side (at least on the roof/B pillar area).

Wasn't there a Model S or X mule with suction-cup cameras or the like outside of the car? Anyone recall that spotting? Link? Are we seeing external Logitech webcams here too or something else? Other reference point showing camera-like sensors in the past few messages as well as here:

Model S test mule with multiple cameras

By the way, since this mule is marked 61, we have seen 62 in June:

Model X Mule has front bumper camera(s)? - Page 3

 

[gjunky]

Now, one could imagine these are cameras - especially the B pillar and front corner locations have been spied or speculated with potential all-around cameras there - but I guess we can't rule out aero mapping sensors etc. either.

The body panels on this seem to fit pretty well. Could those be microphones for noise testing? If they were camera, you would expect them just to use GoPros.