Model X needs a better Quality Control team

[ChrML]

I believe most of the QA issues can be solved by doing a pretty simple decision at top management. The decision is "No car should be shipped from this factory with issues".

Then they should act on that decision. The way to do that is to give the QA team veto rights. The QA team are the only people that can accept a car for shipping. They have to run through a checklist and test drive the car for through a track. Even the most minor issues they refuse to ship the car and drive it back to the production team. They fix, and it needs another test at QA.

The production team owns the storage lot with defective cars and they are also the people responsible for production numbers. Except in order to ship the car, it HAS to pass through the QA team. Meaning they can't try to ship defective cars, every car must be top shape. If the defective car lot has a lot of cars, then that's embarrassing for the production team. Also they get the same numbers for fixing those cars as making new cars.

 

[NewTMSMan]

Spend some time on some other car forums, particularly those that can be considered competitors to Tesla like BMW, Audi, Mercedes. You will see a lot of the same issues and complaining about those brands. As I mentioned before I have a BMW (335d) that has had a few issues but I was also aware before I bought it that other owners were having major engine issues. I still bought the car and accepted the risk. I've never once whined about the car online, only visited the forums where I could get information on the fix.

Just not a fan of the whining and the "I could do it better" attitude of anonymous done nothing Internet posters. It's your right to do it of course, and it's mine to call it out. I'm not referring to anyone in particular including those quoted in this post.

I spend a lot of time on car forums and have owned multiple BMWs, Audis and Mercedes as well. Most recently I have owned an Audi R8, a Porsche Panamera 4S, a Z06/Z07 Corvette as well as less performance oriented cars such as a BMW 328i Wagon, a Volvo V60CC. These are just the cars I have owned in the past 5 years including my Model S and X. I also actively participate in local car clubs as well.

Not sure where you find the moral high ground of calling people out for posting their actual experiences with Tesla and the cars as compared to other vehicles they have owned. If you want to be a fanboy of the cars you buy, have at it, I prefer to provide realistic information about my experiences so that others can consider that when they make a purchase. In addition it also helps bring forward endemic issues and shared solutions (reference my post for example solving Wifi connectivity issues with Telsas terrible Wifi stack).

Just curious what value you think you are providing to the broader community by trying to tell others not to complain about the issues they are unhappy with?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I prefer to provide realistic information about my experiences so that others can consider that when they make a purchase. In addition it also helps bring forward endemic issues and shared solutions (reference my post for example solving Wifi connectivity issues with Telsas terrible Wifi stack).

Hear, hear!

 

[Krazaak]

I think there's a couple issues being reported and at play here. Some are real problems, others aren't. Tesla looping back to fix production line problems later makes absolute sense. If they have a shortage of windshields, bumpers, trailer hitches, whatever; then it makes sense to keep the production line moving, store those cars aside and come back later to fix them. It's a lot faster to recover from 100 Model Xs with no bumper installed than it is to shut production down and wait for bumpers to arrive.

That said, those components should be installed and inspected before delivery to the customer. There have been way too many reports of people receiving cars that are missing trailer hitches or cornering lights and not being informed that the correct part has been ordered. That is either incompetence or intentionally deceptive. If you're coming up on the end of a quarter or potentially the end of the tax credit, then informing the customer that a non-critical component is on back order and offering to let them accept delivery with a due-bill is fine.

The Model X definitely has some build quality or design issues. The falcon wing doors definitely top the list, the front half-shafts, seats, etc. I've owned plenty of German luxury cars though that were plagued by constant failures of critical components that resulted in breakdowns or service visits. Plastic radiator couplings, plastic water pump impellers, plastic engine partitions, plastic crankcase vent lines, front drive-shafts to name a few (mostly cheap plastic parts to save a buck where a metal part might have lasted the lifetime of the car. My last 3 BMWs had critical recalls for problems that were reported multiple times on the forums with BMW denying the problem until finally issuing a recall. The 2007 M6 had a high amperage, un-fused 12V line passing through the body in the trunk that would come loose and burn the car to the ground. The 2010 X5M and 2013 X6M both had front drive shafts that would snap under their own torque and smash the engine and transmission to bits. Honestly, I'm happy my biggest problem at the moment is my FWDs detecting a phantom object and not opening all the way. Every one of those BMWs was a > $100k car that spent weeks in the shop. BMW at least gave me a BMW loaner every time but once.

Some of the smaller annoyances like rebooting the displays in the car are irritating as well. It's just sloppy programming or system design. Even my Windows desktops at home can go a month or more between reboots and Linux/Unix systems that are only rebooted for patches. I put up with it because it's pretty quick and the rest of the car makes up for it, but I think it'll become more of an issue if we don't see better stability in the next major software release. We should be setting the bar higher than Windows ME reliability.

Tesla needs to do a better job of informing their service center staff of common problems and remedies. My FWD sensor issue was no trouble found until I parked it in the sun for them to recreate the problem. Of course, the problem came back again this week when we had a nice warm sunny day. That said, this also is not a problem unique to Tesla. I had to tell the BMW dealer how to change the oil on my M6. Even after I printed the BMW technical service bulletin with the instructions and gave it to the service advisor, they still screwed it up. After 3 years, they finally performed the 4th oil change properly because I insisted the technician come out and speak to me before they changed the oil.

 

[Xtek]

I agree the increased sales from model 3 will put more of a strain on Tesla, but I trust they will get it figured out because they are smart and all. Saying that those buyers on average will be less tolerant seems a bit elitist to me. I would expect way more of the "don't you know who I am" attitude from model S/X owners.

I don't know, I think you might be looking at this from a one-sided perspective. I don't think saying 3 buyers will be less tolerant is elitist. I think that S/X owners are MUCH more tolerant because they are fans, they are paying an investor tax. Go look at most Tesla YouTubers and you'll realize most are Tesla apologists. Meaning regardless of the issues they have they are still big Tesla evangelists and Tesla bulls. People who are buying the S/X are doing so because they want the company to succeed, not because it's a luxury car. Let's be honest, the interior of the S/X is not luxury. Coming from my Audi S6 the X feels like a medium-ish built high-mediumly appointed interior. It's nice, but it's not luxury. However, that doesn't give Tesla a pass on quality.

A large amount of people whom are buying the Model 3 are buying it because it's a car. People are going to be comparing this car to cars with similar prices and expecting similar build quality.

I don't think it's whining, I think it's asking for higher standards. While Tesla is a new company that doesn't mean they should just shrug and accept where they are. They are obviously pulling people into paying a premium for their tech/electric drivetrain. Now is the time they turn that growth into profit by truly making their cars better.

 

[sub]

I think I haven't made my point clearly enough and agree calling people "whiners" is not the most constructive way to have a conversation. My tolerance for certain things has diminished to near zero at this point in my life.

I'm not suggesting that people should not come here and post about the issues they have had with their car, including delivery etc. I appreciate the posts from people that give detailed feedback on an issue and describe how they handled it.

I'm not defending or denying that Tesla needs to get better. Other manufacturers have just as many problems, I currently am advised not to park my BMW in the garage due to it potentially burning my house down until it can be fixed under recall by the dealer.

Do I think BMW intentionally made the error in the design? No I do not. Do I think I could design an automobile that is flawless from delivery to crushing? No.

It's the attitude from people that expect perfection and complain endlessly when they don't get it as if Tesla is intentionally trying to make them unhappy.

When I said "done nothing's" I didn't think I would need to clarifytjat its doubtful anyone that has time to come here and act as if they can do better has actually done anything near the difficulty or scale of Tesla, aka arm chair QB's.

Am I a Tesla fan boy? Hell yes I am. However, I'm all for constructive criticism. Do I expect that all 10k employees do exactly as they are told and for management to never make a mistake, no. I live in the real world.

Here is only one thing you can be certain is different between a model S/X buyer and a model 3 buyer, one is not willing to or does not have the financial means to buy a Model S/X. It's nonsense to claim anything else regarding their personality, demands, or fandom. I could have bought a Tesla from day 1, decided not to until now for multiple reasons. However, I walked out of my first test drive (5 years ago) and knew what I had just experienced and bought a pile of TSLA instead. I may still switch my model X order back to a model 3 due to tax rebate issue (had 2 reservations, cancelled one when my deposit went firm on the model X).

Claiming that model 3 buyers are different in any way other than what I've just said is elitist. That's ok, own it, I'm an elitist myself but I don't claim to know things I can't possibly know.

 

[Krazaak]

I don't think Model 3 owners are really any different than S/M owners. Some will be people just buying a car and others will be Tesla fans that didn't want to or couldn't afford an S or M. What will be different though, is the sheer volume of Model 3s on the road. If they aren't substantially more reliable than the Model X and to a lesser extent the Model S, then there's going to be a lot of strain on an already strained service model.

 

[NewTMSMan]

Am I a Tesla fan boy? Hell yes I am. However, I'm all for constructive criticism. Do I expect that all 10k employees do exactly as they are told and for management to never make a mistake, no. I live in the real world.

Here is only one thing you can be certain is different between a model S/X buyer and a model 3 buyer, one is not willing to or does not have the financial means to buy a Model S/X. It's nonsense to claim anything else regarding their personality, demands, or fandom. I could have bought a Tesla from day 1, decided not to until now for multiple reasons. However, I walked out of my first test drive (5 years ago) and knew what I had just experienced and bought a pile of TSLA instead. I may still switch my model X order back to a model 3 due to tax rebate issue (had 2 reservations, cancelled one when my deposit went firm on the model X).

You left out one additional difference between Model S/X owners and people with Model 3 deposits. We are living with Teslas every day, while people with deposits are living with the hope that they have a great owner experience. I wish you great luck.

On a side note my 3 month old Model X 100D is again out of commission as of this morning with steering and parking brake alerts and the loaner X P100D I have (as my S is also in service) just developed a high speed front end vibration and also is headed back. Glad I have my Volvo V60CC.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

On a side note my 3 month old Model X 100D is again out of commission as of this morning with steering and parking brake alerts and the loaner X P100D I have (as my S is also in service) just developed a high speed front end vibration and also is headed back. Glad I have my Volvo V60CC.

Oh dear, so sorry to hear this.

My Model X has been trouble-free in comparison, it only had spoiler, seat rust, charge port door and ghosting issues - as well as the weird gremlin of memory loss on radio stations. But still, these have been mostly "cosmetic", nothing threatening the daily commute.

I can't imagine what it would be like if it was unreliable to drive, luckily I've not had that - other than my Model S having 12V replaced, but that was its only hardware issue on my 2014 Model S.

p.s. Anecdotal supporting evidence of the speed over quality angle:

Let's just say there were so many imperfections in the exterior that it took us 30 minutes to document and photograph. We were told different stories by the delivery staff : 1) this is pretty normal and 2) no I don't see what you mean and 3) this is normal for EOQ cars. We were also told that production is always going top speed and this is how some cars come to them and they give them to service to fix.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Another IMO notable comment:

It's simple, quality is not incentivized at Tesla, but speed is. You get what you measure.

I especially like ths quote:

“We’ve been building a Model S since 2012. How do we still have water leaks?”

This is stimply poor quality management: Employees who worked on Model S and Model X described pressure to keep the assembly line moving, even when problems emerged. Some told of batches of cars being sent through with parts missing - windshields in one case, bumpers in another - because there were none on hand. The understanding, they said, was that these and other flaws would be fixed later.

 

[Peteski]

I think, in general, forums of any brand only attract serious fans and serious complainers! I think neither of these stereotypes are particularly representative of a typical owner. I don't see how it will be any different with Model 3 owners, except maybe less of each extreme stereotype relative to the vast number of buyers who will never frequent these forums or look too closely at build quality issues - unless serious enough to stop the car functioning.

As an example, our daily hack is a Nissan Qashqai. On the Qashqai forums there are a very small number of "enthusiasts" who critique and report on every tiny detail. But there must be literally millions of owners like myself who just drive the thing around without giving it a second thought as long as it drives from A to B. Our Qashqai currently has maybe half a dozen minor gremlins, the panel gaps are all over the place, the paint quality is appalling, the dash occasionally re-boots itself randomly and the driver's seat is looking a bit ropey after 40K miles, but I simply don't give a *sugar* and certainly haven't discussed it on any Nissan forums! Now we also own a Porsche 911 and those forums have far more enthusiasts as you would naturally expect, so the level of critique is also considerably higher as those owners tend to go through their cars with a fine tooth-comb. Tesla S/X forums are far more like Porsche in that respect i.e. full of serious fans and critique, but I wouldn't expect quite the same for Model 3, especially when they end up as typical mid-management company cars in lieu of the usual midrange BMWs and Audis. Many owners will simply not look or care about minor quality issues as long as the base car is reasonably reliable and the overall driving experience reasonably enjoyable.

I guess I'm just not buying into the idea that Model 3 owners are going to be super-critical of quality issues, especially compared to S/X owners who have invested more money and probably time into their cars.

 

[dmeyer]

There's also a key distinction in perspective here. As an owner I'm quite happy, and haven't seen the evidence that new/better quality control is needed. I see the anecdotes, but I don't find them particularly compelling of a larger concern that I should carry around with me.

If I was wearing an investor hat, otoh, I would be relatively more interested and concerned, because I would need the see ongoing quality and efficiency improvements to help justify the future-looking price of the stock.

 

[cubbie]

No, they don't need a better team, they need a completely new team... Quality issues are ongoing, predictable, and fluctuate in severity based on relation to quarterly end... This has to indicate that the current management and staffing for this team aren't working and should be replaced with people who can actually do the job consistently, and reliably...

Jeff

Totally agree I would prefer to wait a little bit longer and the car arriving with a lot of faults. My model x had problems with falcon wings, the chrome trim has so many clips missing. It’s a shame they could take a little bit more care.

 

[flyinghawaiian]

Just picked up our Model X a week ago. The lower outside passenger door trim is coming off. We didn't catch it on pickup but shortly thereafter. I love my X but i just have to smh at the poor quality control.

We also noticed some of the rubber trim around the doors look like they were ripped off instead of cut off.