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Model X vs iPace vs e-Tron

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wdolson

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Jul 24, 2015
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Clark Co, WA
I looked at the basic specs for the three. I'm not all that impressed with the eTron and iPace's efficiency. They both have batteries closer in size to the Model X 100, but range closer to the X 75. IMO that's a drawback with a long range CCS charging network that may not be up to Tesla's for a long time.


2018-10-03_002.jpg
 
Another important metric you left out is 0-60 mph acceleration.
  • Model X 100D: 4.7 seconds
  • Model X 75D: 4.9 seconds
  • Audi e-tron: 6.2 seconds (what a joke)
  • Jaguar I-PACE: 4.5 seconds
It's also worth noting that the Model X is much larger than the others and the only electric SUV with available 3rd row seating.
 
Am I the only one to list the availability as an important criteria?

e-tron should be hard to get and on order only.
i-Pace is being has a super slow production ramp. About 600 sold to date.

Anyway it is always fun to compare a 2016-2018 Model X to cars that may be available in 1 or 2 years.

Sorry for venting my frustration that no legacy automaker has a way to produce a serious number of batteries before 2022.
 
OK, model X100D is top in about every spec (it's simply Huge), but the e-tron does fill in some gaps left open bij the I-PACE:
towing capacity 1800kgs (I-PACE 750kgs) and faster AC charging (relevant here in Europe...).

The Model X has more interior space, but the footprint of all 3 is very close to the same. The fast charging is going to change and we can't be sure how. On the one hand Tesla has said faster charging is coming, though we have no details, nor do we know how that is going to be rolled out, or if the Model S and Model X will be able to take advantage of it. It may only be for the semi. Currently Tesla offers two supercharger speeds and you can easily tell the difference by looking at them.

CCS fast charging is speced and there are cars coming onto the market that promise to be able to take advantage of it, but we don't know how common the fast chargers will be, or how widespread. CCS can offer a wide range of charging speeds from near glacial on up to faster than Tesla's current fastest on paper. The bulk of CCS chargers already out there are much slower than Tesla's slowest.

It's possible that CCS 150KW chargers will be common, but it's also possible Tesla could close the gap and/or CCS doesn't live up to its promises.

You can add:
+ Model X: premium interior
+ i-Pace: Luxury interior
+ e-tron: Luxury interior

If you don’t care about panel gaps, interiors quality. Model X is top on evertyhing else.

The build quality of the Jag and Audi will almost certainly be more consistent and better on average. They both will have more creature comforts. Tesla's creature comforts are on par with well trimmed non-luxury cars at a higher price because of the drivetrain. Coming from a Buick (a 1992 at that), it's plenty for me, but for those used to the European luxury car brands, Tesla's interior features are spartan.

Am I the only one to list the availability as an important criteria?

e-tron should be hard to get and on order only.
i-Pace is being has a super slow production ramp. About 600 sold to date.

Anyway it is always fun to compare a 2016-2018 Model X to cars that may be available in 1 or 2 years.

Sorry for venting my frustration that no legacy automaker has a way to produce a serious number of batteries before 2022.

Both the iPace and e-Tron have started production. The first year of the Model X had very low production numbers too. The current production of the Model X is close to 50K a year. Initially the e-Tron and iPace will be lower volume, but it looks like they are aiming at about that by this time next year.

I do agree both the iPace and e-Tron are limited by battery production. Tesla is semi-limited by battery production, but is constantly expanding.
 
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I've test driven a new I-Pace. Great vehicle. Much better fit and finish than the X. 0-60 time has actually tested already at 4.0 seconds instead of 4.5 as advertised, and that matched my impressions from driving it. However - it's a brand new vehicle with zero history behind it and I wasn't willing to be the first guinea pig. So I bought a P85DL instead.
 
I went to the Jaguar event to drive the I Pace. Most of Jaguar Electrifies event was dedicated to showcasing their gas cars. The iPace was a side show. If they learned anything from Tesla they would have released an EV in each size and price segment (sedan & SUV, compact and full sized) each of those offers should have better specifications than Tesla, just with Jaguar's esthetic and build qualities. Jaguar claims they'll be there in 5 years. In 5 years no one will be able to catch Tesla. Apple released the first iPhone 11 years ago. Ask Google, Facebook, Microsoft, and Amazon how well they did catching Apple with their efforts to make a phone, and they have all the money and best engineers in the world. For people who only drive Jaguar but want an EV option, this might work for them. For people who want an EV ecosystem with lots of product choices, Tesla will be the only way to go.
 
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I went to the Jaguar event to drive the I Pace. Most of Jaguar Electrifies event was dedicated to showcasing their gas cars. The iPace was a side show. If they learned anything from Tesla they would have released an EV in each size and price segment (sedan & SUV, compact and full sized) each of those offers should have better specifications than Tesla, just with Jaguar's esthetic and build qualities. Jaguar claims they'll be there in 5 years. In 5 years no one will be able to catch Tesla. Apple released the first iPhone 11 years ago. Ask Google, Facebook, Microsoft, and Amazon how well they did catching Apple with their efforts to make a phone, and they have all the money and best engineers in the world. For people who only drive Jaguar but want an EV option, this might work for them. For people who want an EV ecosystem with lots of product choices, Tesla will be the only way to go.

Apple was a bigger and better established company when they introduced the iPhone, but phones were a new thing for them. Google has done OK in the phone business. There are more copies of Android out in the world than iOS. But Google wasn't in the phone business 11 years ago either. What is more critical with this analogy is that most of the biggest companies making phones 11 years ago are shells of their former selves, and anyone with a decent market share today other than Apple is using the Android OS.

If the analogy holds for cars (which it probably won't), the car business in ten years time will be a number of legacy automakers which are hollowed out shells of their former glory and a bunch of newer companies competing with Tesla.

I don't see the legacy car companies going away because cars are a significantly tougher technology to get into than phones and it's a tech that is very different from electronics manufacturing. Smart phones have all the same tech as a laptop computer with a new network interface (cellular network) added. The processors are much less powerful and the user interface is simpler, but the core technologies aren't much different.

Cars are heavy industry. Modern cars have a lot of electronics, but ultimately they require skill with bending and shaping metal. I think LG is planning on getting into the EV market. They already have the skills at metal bending from their home appliances manufacturing.

Things also change in the car industry much slower than electronics because turnover is slow and mass production is much harder. Apple and Android were able to dominate the phone space in a few years because manufacturing tens or hundreds of millions of smart phones a year is easy. A production line and parts chain can be retooled from some other electronics gadget to make smart phones in a few months, and they can crank out millions of copies a month after that.

Cars have significantly more parts, many of which need to move, and there is more hand labor putting them together. They require large factories to make and the supply chain requires large factories for the major components. For EVs, battery supply is key and look at what it's taking Tesla to be able to produce 500 K cars a year. The world has around 1.2 billion cars, 2400X Tesla's yearly production targets for the near term.

Because it takes so much effort just to get in the door as a car maker, the legacy car makers have a moat that will keep out a lot of would-be competition. They are having a hard time processing the fact that a competitor got the small foothold it did.

Some legacy car makers are going to hit hard times as the world transitions to EVs. We could see legacy automakers bought out by companies that want to get into the car game. Amazon-Ford? AGM (Apple General Motors)? Others will be bailed out by governments and will only make it on taxpayer money.

I do think the car industry is going to go through a shake up like the cell phone industry did, but it's going to look different.
 
Jag i-Pace seems to have the Madison Avenue angles down.

ps- millions and millions were lost in the cell phone markets - Nokia and Blackberry are just two examples.
Motorola certainly had their share of problems too. Just say'n it wasn't exactly "easy".
Manufacturing complex quality products never is.

Even TVs went thru disruption and of course digital cameras.
We live in truly amazing times.
 
The bigger issue for both of non-Teslas is that there is no SuperCharging network that makes long distance driving easy. If you want just a luxury in-town vehicle, then the other two are worth looking at.

I think the question of how the legacy makers are going to solve the challenge of providing a fast charging network is really interesting - especially in the US. I guess that discussion deserves its own thread ...
 
One other thing to consider with vehicles from other manufacturers is the limitation on how many times you can fast charge

I’m reliably informed that an eGolf taken to a dealer around the corner needed its battery replacing because because of excessive fast charging - at the owner’s expense

KIA also impose a limit on how many times you can rapid charge

I’m not saying Audi and Jaguar are in the same boat, but this is one thing I don’t have to worry about with Tesla....
 
e-Tron charges faster as well.

If you can find a fast CCS charger. All of Tesla's superchargers are 70 KW or 120 KW, with the majority being 120 KW, especially on the highway where people need the fastest charges. Faster rates are coming for Tesla.

Currently there are almost no CCS chargers faster than 120 KW and by the time 150 KW CCS chargers become common, Tesla will probably have their own faster charging standard rolled out around the world.

On paper there are European cars that can charge faster than Tesla, but in the real world, that can't happen today and if it ever does it may only be a short blip in time when there are some faster CCS chargers out there in a few locations.

One other thing to consider with vehicles from other manufacturers is the limitation on how many times you can fast charge

I’m reliably informed that an eGolf taken to a dealer around the corner needed its battery replacing because because of excessive fast charging - at the owner’s expense

KIA also impose a limit on how many times you can rapid charge

I’m not saying Audi and Jaguar are in the same boat, but this is one thing I don’t have to worry about with Tesla....

For people who live in apartments or condos and need to rely on public chargers, this is non-trivial. One of Tesla's secret sauces is their battery management.
 
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