Model X vs iPace vs e-Tron

[schonelucht]

Currently there are almost no CCS chargers faster than 120 KW and by the time 150 KW CCS chargers become common, Tesla will probably have their own faster charging standard rolled out around the world.

in the Netherlands, there are more CCS2.0 locations than Tesla superchargers. They are also expanding at a faster rate than Tesla. Granted, the Netherlands together with Switzerland are unique but expansion of CCS is underway in Germany, Austria, France as well. Norway, UK and Belgium will follow soon. And that's just the operators that I know of.

With regards to supercharger v3, it's possible that it arrives in the US before large scale adoption of high speed CCS, but I think in Europe Tesla lost this race. v3 isn't yet announced and any build out will take time. It's also unclear if a Model 3 purchased today will be able to take advantage of v3. Meanwhile CCS is rolling out today.

I agree that CCS has been something of a perennial promise but it is finally happening.

 

[wdolson]

in the Netherlands, there are more CCS2.0 locations than Tesla superchargers. They are also expanding at a faster rate than Tesla. Granted, the Netherlands together with Switzerland are unique but expansion of CCS is underway in Germany, Austria, France as well. Norway, UK and Belgium will follow soon. And that's just the operators that I know of.

With regards to supercharger v3, it's possible that it arrives in the US before large scale adoption of high speed CCS, but I think in Europe Tesla lost this race. v3 isn't yet announced and any build out will take time. It's also unclear if a Model 3 purchased today will be able to take advantage of v3. Meanwhile CCS is rolling out today.

I agree that CCS has been something of a perennial promise but it is finally happening.

There may be more locations, but there probably aren't more chargers. Supercharger locations are usually 8-12 stalls, and most CCS installations, at least here in the US are 1 stall, maybe 2.

Are there any statistics on which locations are higher speed CCS vs older, low speed CCS and the power available plus the number of stalls at each location? Places like Plugshare will show you all the sites, but you have to click on all of them to figure out how many and the power available.

 

[daktari]

Jaguar Steering Assist tested on the roads I used for Autopilot.

 

[Richt]

There may be more locations, but there probably aren't more chargers. Supercharger locations are usually 8-12 stalls, and most CCS installations, at least here in the US are 1 stall, maybe 2.

Are there any statistics on which locations are higher speed CCS vs older, low speed CCS and the power available plus the number of stalls at each location? Places like Plugshare will show you all the sites, but you have to click on all of them to figure out how many and the power available.

 

[Richt]

Ok we have a Chevy Bolt so track CCS pretty carefully. At least in the Pacific Northwest to be clear there are no 150kW CCS charger anywhere. On the Portland to Seattle route for instance there are total of two locations with a single charger each.

In comparison there are 30 120kW chargers at two locations between these two spots

 

[Richt]

Ok we have a Chevy Bolt so track CCS pretty carefully. At least in the Pacific Northwest to be clear there are no 150kW CCS charger anywhere. On the Portland to Seattle route for instance there are total of two locations with a single charger each.

In comparison there are 30 120kW chargers at two locations between these two spots

So having a car with a 150kW spec isn’t super useful. The bolt FYI has the potential for 75kW apparently but you have to have a charger that supports it.

 

[SuisseDriver]

The Model X has more interior space, but the footprint of all 3 is very close to the same. The fast charging is going to change and we can't be sure how. On the one hand Tesla has said faster charging is coming, though we have no details, nor do we know how that is going to be rolled out, or if the Model S and Model X will be able to take advantage of it. It may only be for the semi. Currently Tesla offers two supercharger speeds and you can easily tell the difference by looking at them.

As posted on the other thread, there was an e-Tron showed here in Switzerland and I can tell you that an e-Tron is MUCH smaller than a X. It cannot compare.
Interior wise, it is very very similar to the Q5 of my friend. I think that it is based on an ICE plateform because there is a transmission tunnel bump (?!?), and no frunk (there is a small cavity available to put like maybe one charging cable but that's it) and the trunk is relatively small, I think not more than 500-550l.
All in all, my Model S is significantly roomier than an e-Tron.

 

[Richt]

Wow both the ipace and etron are walker and have less interior space. And a transmission bump.

 

[30seconds]

I’m suspecting that a 250mile range Model Y, with similar interior space, will be tens of thousands less.

 

[Richt]

I’m suspecting that a 250mile range Model Y, with similar interior space, will be tens of thousands less.

Yes I agree.

 

[Riggald]

There may be more locations, but there probably aren't more chargers. Supercharger locations are usually 8-12 stalls, and most CCS installations, at least here in the US are 1 stall, maybe 2.

Are there any statistics on which locations are higher speed CCS vs older, low speed CCS and the power available plus the number of stalls at each location? Places like Plugshare will show you all the sites, but you have to click on all of them to figure out how many and the power available.

In the EU, CCS DC Fast Chargers (DCFCs) outnumber Superchargers about 2 to 1.
In the USA, Superchargers outnumber CCS DCFCs by just over 2 to 1. The number of cars trying to use the Superchargers outnumbers the EVs trying to use the CCS chargers by about 6 to 1.

In the USA, there are about 25 to 30 CCS High Power Charger (HPC) locations live, with between 100 and 200 HPCs between them (out of about 1,100 CCS DCFC locations )

 

[wdolson]

In the EU, CCS DC Fast Chargers (DCFCs) outnumber Superchargers about 2 to 1.
In the USA, Superchargers outnumber CCS DCFCs by just over 2 to 1. The number of cars trying to use the Superchargers outnumbers the EVs trying to use the CCS chargers by about 6 to 1.

In the USA, there are about 25 to 30 CCS High Power Charger (HPC) locations live, with between 100 and 200 HPCs between them (out of about 1,100 CCS DCFC locations )

Are you talking locations or stalls? And most of those are 20-50KW CCS chargers whereas all superchargers are either 72 or 120 KW.

 

[Magellan55]

e-Tron charges faster as well.

Depends what you mean by faster - higher kW maybe, but the X is more efficient so the number of miles you gain per minute is probably in the X's favor, or at least a wash. And that's if you even consider the much roomier X to be a fair comparison. e-Tron is a little bigger than the i-Pace, but the i-Pace is really the size of the Model 3. Model Y is probably the best comparison, and from what I've heard will be a Model 3 with SUV styling. Compare miles-per-hour charge rates to that, and contest over.

 

[Riggald]

Are you talking locations or stalls? And most of those are 20-50KW CCS chargers whereas all superchargers are either 72 or 120 KW.

For Supercharger, it's stalls. i.e. counting 2 stalls per super charger. For CCS, it's chargers.

20kW CCS are therefore excluded from the figures.

If it is below 50kW, by definition it is not a CCS DC Fast Charger (DCFC).
CharIN, the standards body for CCS, defines Fast Charger as 50 to 149kW, and High Power Charger (HPC) as 150kW and up.

In the USA, I expect CCS HPCs will start to outnumber CCS DCFCs in about 12 months' time.

In the EU, there are so many CCS DCFCs, that it will be a long time before HPCs outnumber them.

Yes, the bulk of installed CCS DCFCs chargers are 50kW. HPC rollout only started 12 months ago, and only 6 months ago in the USA

Equally, Superchargers can be 34kW, depending on occupancy rate, and whether you are the first or second vehicle to connect to the Supercharger. (assuming a 135kW or 145kW Supercharger).

 

[scottf200]

Dec 5 Roland van der Put / @RolandvanderPut (Head of Network Technology @Fastned)

Great technology and good to have these chargers at an increasing number of @Fastned stations!

The e-tron charges at 150 kW until 80% as can be seen in the attached charge curve of an e-tron that visited one of our stations (disclaimer: data from a pre-production vehicle).

https://i.imgur.com/wcQ0PFz.jpg

 

[Brando]

You can add:
+ Model X: premium interior
+ i-Pace: Luxury interior
+ e-tron: Luxury interior

If you don’t care about panel gaps, interiors quality. Model X is top on evertyhing else.

Doesn't seem current panel gaps are a problem.
Some people seem to find the white interior very nice.
IF you found either of these a serious problem, you won't buy, would you?? Used market of Model X seems to be better than most all other SUVs, right? So, I'd suspect not a "real problem" is it. And it seems Model X still cheapest per mile to drive. (is tire use/wear overly expensive compared to others??).

Still waiting to find a worthy competitor of Tesla? Just ask WSJ, Wall Street analysis, other auto execs and many reassure that Tesla will prove to be "inferior" to 100 year old vehicle producers. Still waiting to see.

I do have high hopes for some of the other new start ups. Especially this one from Sweden:
Uniti - An electric car to redefine urban mobility
And I hope dyson might try to avoid the top end of the market and make something affordable - but that would seem against his recent business history of products. But he is avoiding making vehicles in the industrialized West and going for China production.

Perhaps the Internet/virtual reality will allow humanity to walk/bike much more in the future IF Elon can get us reasonable prices for connectivity.

 

[Brando]

Seems we are still waiting for someone to match performance of Tesla SuperCharger??

PS - I think that Audi is the winner for Madison Avenue marketing of EVs [Electric Vehicles] eTron.
Volvo is a close 2nd with Electric trucks.
Interesting to see if Madison Avenue can "help" others to match Tesla Sales.

Is anyone near Model S [I guess in some markets - China perhaps? - Merc S Class - and gov't embassy sales too?]
Model X - any Luxury SUV match ~50,000 per year? Let us know. (Cayenne/Macan ~39,000??)
Model 3 - only 1/2 year to see so far, 2019 will be very interesting numbers to watch.

 

[VT_EE]

Not a good customer review of the iPace. It looks like the range is worse than advertised and Jaguar dealers don't have a clue.

Jaguar I-PACE buyer shares ownership experience: range issues, regrets, Teslas, and why EV training matters

 

[wdolson]

Consumer Reports' Talking Cars had an episode on the i-Pace and they didn't think that much of it either. It has the gadgets of a European luxury car, but it's quite small compared to the Model X and had a poor range even though it has close to the same size battery as the X. Nobody really compares to Tesla in efficiency per pound (or Kg).

 

[OCR1]

Not a good customer review of the iPace. It looks like the range is worse than advertised and Jaguar dealers don't have a clue.

Jaguar I-PACE buyer shares ownership experience: range issues, regrets, Teslas, and why EV training matters

I saw that article too. $90K for the car and the dealer can’t figure out why it won’t even go 200 miles on a charge. Jaguar is going to have some teething pains trying to figure out the EV market. It makes sense though. Tesla has been doing this for 15 years. Why would anyone expect other manufacturers to produce a comparable product to Tesla on their first try?