MR3 same range as P3D+? Possibly more?

[Nate977p]

Hello all!
Had a thought here I did not see disucssed yet. I have a P3D+ and the girlfriend fell in utter love with the 3, to the point where she is selling her 6 month old Prius Prime to get a MR3 (she got such a great deal that real loss on it over 6 months is nearly $0). She was debating a LR3, but she wanted white, which forced a minimum price of $61.5k (EAP, AWD, white). With the recent shake up, she can now do the same in MR for $10k less, which is much more palatable. After doing a 6 year cost analysis, the cost compared to a prime is about $1000 a year more; worth it!

As we discussed it, we were a bit worried on range. Then I realized, she is going to get better range than me probably right? Assuming the MR sticks to the 260 real world, I am getting over 300 wh/mile on my P3D+, thus 20%+ less range. Using that figure, my range is really about 250. And if I have been able to live with that, she should be fine with 260 (drives much less than I).

Am I missing anything, or is it fair to say in the real world, we should expect the MR3 to be better than P3D+? Obviously we will need to get real data, but from the points we have now.

P.S.: as a side note, this weekend on a trip up to NH, I averaged a bit over 400 on a 60+ mile drive . Some mountains, but man can the P3D be a hog; the beat kind of energy hog!

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Am I missing anything, or is it fair to say in the real world, we should expect the MR3 to be better than P3D+? Obviously we will need to get real data, but from the points we have now.

You get better performance out of your 2 motors on the P but lose quite a bit of range compared to the single motor LR if you use it.
So basically:
A lot of fun -> lower range
Cheaper and still pretty fun -> higher range

 

[Need]

I have AWD 18" aero cap removed. Yesterday I drove all over SoCal (180 miles round trip) and trip meter said 214 wh/mile. So yeah, I think a MR RWD with aero cap will likely have longer range than your P3D+.

 

[voip-ninja]

Hello all!
Had a thought here I did not see disucssed yet. I have a P3D+ and the girlfriend fell in utter love with the 3, to the point where she is selling her 6 month old Prius Prime to get a MR3 (she got such a great deal that real loss on it over 6 months is nearly $0). She was debating a LR3, but she wanted white, which forced a minimum price of $61.5k (EAP, AWD, white). With the recent shake up, she can now do the same in MR for $10k less, which is much more palatable. After doing a 6 year cost analysis, the cost compared to a prime is about $1000 a year more; worth it!

As we discussed it, we were a bit worried on range. Then I realized, she is going to get better range than me probably right? Assuming the MR sticks to the 260 real world, I am getting over 300 wh/mile on my P3D+, thus 20%+ less range. Using that figure, my range is really about 250. And if I have been able to live with that, she should be fine with 260 (drives much less than I).

Am I missing anything, or is it fair to say in the real world, we should expect the MR3 to be better than P3D+? Obviously we will need to get real data, but from the points we have now.

P.S.: as a side note, this weekend on a trip up to NH, I averaged a bit over 400 on a 60+ mile drive . Some mountains, but man can the P3D be a hog; the beat kind of energy hog!

No, she won't get more range than an MR than you do with a P3D, regardless of how you each drive it. The MR has a bigger battery. Will she get better efficiency of course she will, the car is lighter and has one motor.

 

[abasile]

I am getting over 300 wh/mile on my P3D+, thus 20%+ less range.

Sounds like you're having fun! On our AWD Model 3, we're getting in the ballpark of 250 Wh/mile, with the aero caps on the 18" wheels. Even in our 2012 Model S, we get close to 280 Wh/mile. This is with mostly mountain and freeway driving, and we're not slowpokes. Honestly, I've been a little surprised that the efficiency of the dual-motor Model 3 isn't better, but it's still good enough for us.

With a RWD Model 3, it appears that the efficiency is truly superior, so it probably wouldn't be hard to get 260 miles out of a "lemur" on a full charge. That's comparable to the range of our Model S 85, and we've been happy taking the Model S on trips.

 

[Nate977p]

You get better performance out of your 2 motors on the P but lose quite a bit of range compared to the single motor LR if you use it.
So basically:
A lot of fun -> lower range
Cheaper and still pretty fun -> higher range

Haha yes P3D is a bunch more fun Still MR should be great fun compared to most other cars!

No, she won't get more range than an MR than you do with a P3D, regardless of how you each drive it. The MR has a bigger battery. Will she get better efficiency of course she will, the car is lighter and has one motor.

I understand what you are saying on the efficiency side, but do not see where you are countering the range point? Rated obviously doesn't change at 310 vs 260, but 310 seems to be at 250 wh/mile (per me comparing actual and rated). When I am getting over 300 wh/mile efficiency, I'm effectively using 20% more energy, thus get 20% less range, thus 248 mile range. And I am assuming MR3 should be true to rated based on the LR getting 334 EPA and LRAWD accurate to efficiency rating. Am I missing something?

 

[voip-ninja]

Haha yes P3D is a bunch more fun Still MR should be great fun compared to most other cars!



I understand what you are saying on the efficiency side, but do not see where you are countering the range point? Rated obviously doesn't change at 310 vs 260, but 310 seems to be at 250 wh/mile (per me comparing actual and rated). When I am getting over 300 wh/mile efficiency, I'm effectively using 20% more energy, thus get 20% less range, thus 248 mile range. And I am assuming MR3 should be true to rated based on the LR getting 334 EPA and LRAWD accurate to efficiency rating. Am I missing something?

What you are missing is that you assume that she will get EPA efficiency while you are not. If she drives even slightly more aggressively than they do on the EPA test she will not get the maximum estimated range any more than you do.

 

[SR22pilot]

Hello all!
Had a thought here I did not see disucssed yet. I have a P3D+ and the girlfriend fell in utter love with the 3, to the point where she is selling her 6 month old Prius Prime to get a MR3 (she got such a great deal that real loss on it over 6 months is nearly $0). She was debating a LR3, but she wanted white, which forced a minimum price of $61.5k (EAP, AWD, white). With the recent shake up, she can now do the same in MR for $10k less, which is much more palatable. After doing a 6 year cost analysis, the cost compared to a prime is about $1000 a year more; worth it!

As we discussed it, we were a bit worried on range. Then I realized, she is going to get better range than me probably right? Assuming the MR sticks to the 260 real world, I am getting over 300 wh/mile on my P3D+, thus 20%+ less range. Using that figure, my range is really about 250. And if I have been able to live with that, she should be fine with 260 (drives much less than I).

Am I missing anything, or is it fair to say in the real world, we should expect the MR3 to be better than P3D+? Obviously we will need to get real data, but from the points we have now.

P.S.: as a side note, this weekend on a trip up to NH, I averaged a bit over 400 on a 60+ mile drive . Some mountains, but man can the P3D be a hog; the beat kind of energy hog!

Sounds like my situation with my girlfriend. I called Tesla and changed MR single motor to LR single motor. They said you can do it but this week is the last week. That is what Elon meant by "off menu."

 

[Nate977p]

Right that is the big variable I think I am looking to discuss. It is known a P3D+ driven like it was meant to lives in the 300+ neighborhood vs its 250 rating and has an actual efficiency much lower than rated (sticky tires, more accessable power, all the smiles per mile).

But from all my lurking, it seems the LRAWD lives right at rated, as does LR (factoring in fact Tesla lowered rating from 334 to 310). The P+ is understandable to be well off, but all other models, seem to be within few % of rated efficiency/range. Of course flooring it, driving faster on highway speeds, temperature will impact that. My point is my 300+ is my baseline normal driving. No track, average around 65 degrees during ownership, typical commute and that is what others are seeing too. Thus 20% off rated. The other models in normal driving seem to be about spot on the rated. Alright i think I'm circle over explaining now

 

[Nate977p]

Sounds like my situation with my girlfriend. I called Tesla and changed MR single motor to LR single motor. They said you can do it but this week is the last week. That is what Elon meant by "off menu."

Did they allow white on the LR?

 

[Need]

What you are missing is that you assume that she will get EPA efficiency while you are not. If she drives even slightly more aggressively than they do on the EPA test she will not get the maximum estimated range any more than you do.

From what I read, P3D+ efficiency is very low (maybe of the 20" wheels?) even if you drive like an old man. So unless OP's girlfriend drives like Danica Patrick on the track, I think she will get 20% better efficiency than OP driving his P3D+.

 

[MountainPass]

I guess it's like driving a Dodge Viper. Passing everything on the road except the gas station!

 

[Lunares]

https://i.redd.it/fcd1127n4ut11.jpg

here's a great range chart for the various models. The "true" range of a Model 3 LR RWD using 18" wheels + the aero, going 65 mph on the highway is around 350 miles. A P3D+ on 20" tires is 284. Downrating the Model 3 LR by 17% (260 MR range advertised / 310 LR range advertised) gives you 293 miles at 65 mph.

So yes, very possible for her MR to outrange your P3D+ on 20" tires. But the more important factor by far will be "how fast do you drive"

 

[ecarfan]

As we discussed it, we were a bit worried on range.

When evaluating whether or not the range of a Tesla is sufficient for one’s needs, ask yourself how frequently you need to drive more than about 75% of the car’s EPA range (to allow for cold weather and/or elevation gains) and what is the availability of Supercharges in your region?

The vast majority of vehicle trips in the US are less than 100 miles/day. And Superchargers are plentiful in the northeastern US (and in most — but not all — other parts of the US as well).

I suspect that the Mid Range Model 3 is probably sufficient for her needs. But only she can answer that question.

 

[SCW-Greg]

https://i.redd.it/fcd1127n4ut11.jpg

here's a great range chart for the various models. The "true" range of a Model 3 LR RWD using 18" wheels + the aero, going 65 mph on the highway is around 350 miles. A P3D+ on 20" tires is 284. Downrating the Model 3 LR by 17% (260 MR range advertised / 310 LR range advertised) gives you 293 miles at 65 mph.

So yes, very possible for her MR to outrange your P3D+ on 20" tires. But the more important factor by far will be "how fast do you drive"

There’s actually an updated version of this chart (but I can’t find it at the moment) that includes the medium range battery.
The chart indicates that the OP might actually be correct.

The M3 Performance has far less range than advertised.

 

[MP3Mike]

She was debating a LR3, but she wanted white, which forced a minimum price of $61.5k (EAP, AWD, white). With the recent shake up, she can now do the same in MR for $10k

Well it isn't really the "same" if you are comparing a AWD LR to a RWD MR. She could have done a RWD LR before the "shake up"...

 

[JeffK]

MR driven like a normal person will definitely get more range then my P3D+ driven by me, no doubt in my mind.

 

[Troy]

Hi. Here is a chart I created that includes the Model 3 Mid Range.
I explained the battery size and range calculation for the MR in a blog post here: Estimated range and battery specs for Tesla Model 3 Mid-Range - Teslike.com

 

[Perry]

Hello all!
Had a thought here I did not see disucssed yet. I have a P3D+ and the girlfriend fell in utter love with the 3, to the point where she is selling her 6 month old Prius Prime to get a MR3 (she got such a great deal that real loss on it over 6 months is nearly $0). She was debating a LR3, but she wanted white, which forced a minimum price of $61.5k (EAP, AWD, white). With the recent shake up, she can now do the same in MR for $10k less, which is much more palatable. After doing a 6 year cost analysis, the cost compared to a prime is about $1000 a year more; worth it!

As we discussed it, we were a bit worried on range. Then I realized, she is going to get better range than me probably right? Assuming the MR sticks to the 260 real world, I am getting over 300 wh/mile on my P3D+, thus 20%+ less range. Using that figure, my range is really about 250. And if I have been able to live with that, she should be fine with 260 (drives much less than I).

Am I missing anything, or is it fair to say in the real world, we should expect the MR3 to be better than P3D+? Obviously we will need to get real data, but from the points we have now.

P.S.: as a side note, this weekend on a trip up to NH, I averaged a bit over 400 on a 60+ mile drive . Some mountains, but man can the P3D be a hog; the beat kind of energy hog!

She'll definitely get better range than your P3D. My P3D only gets 160 miles of range on full charge. The 310 is highly exaggerated. The only way to get that is if you constantly baby the car to a point where you start questioning why you got a performance in the first place.

 

[MXWing]

I think there’s more imaginary girlfriends in this thread than imaginary range estimates.

As bad ass as 350 watt miles is in my 3P+, doesn’t sustain when traffic happens.

Also, MR range won’t look anywhere as good if yoI drive it with any spirit.