Mt Buller from Melbourne

[Leeroy]

…. Is doable in an 3SR+.
Just thought I’d post this if any cares or wants to try something similar with their SR+ . Drive was from Mornington peninsular to Yea supercharger then Mt Buller and return.

Some points of interest,
My general usage is about 155wh/km for my work commute (190km round trip, 50% 100km the rest 80km) this consumption was much higher after leaving the Yea supercharger, didn’t get much below 200 for the bulk of the journey, temp was hovering around 8, lowest was at buller 3.
ABRP suggested a 95% charge at Yea to go up the mountain and back to Yea arriving with 22%. The kids were still playing teslakart on the way up so I kept going and left at 97%
Arrived at the Buller carpark stop with 57% and arrived at the day carpark with 44%. The nav showed I’d be back at Yea with 22% ….. happy.

Not so on the way down.

This was leaving the buller day carpark. Just out of view, but arrival at Yea was showing 18% (still happy)

However the regen just did not eventuate like the prediction. I deliberately switched on the climate to preheat the battery about 20mins before departing the day carpark, however no battery heating whatsoever (parked for about 4hours.)
I did get a reduced regen as I first left the carpark, however no further alerts after the first one and 3/4 regen available the rest of the trip.

You can see here how it missed a fair bit going down the hill and consumption was becoming sphincter clenching as it dropped from 22% quickly to 18then to 8 and I wasn’t sure where it would stop.
Good news is it started to climb back on the cruise to Yea and eventually settled at 11% (presumably as the temp went up?)

I was telling my Mrs (and myself) so long as it’s above 0 we’re all good!

Doing this again, I would charge to 100% leaving Yea, more so to guard if the temp was below freezing.
So it’s doable, depending on your comfort level for arrival SOC.

Other interesting alert I got as was right as I was reversing to the supercharger, ‘range will be significantly reduced if temp drops any further’ which was about 4.

 

[GrimRe]

I love posts like this. People in Europe live this type of cold weather bizarreness everyday but then again, they have access to probably 10x the charging infrastructure.

I wonder if simple Level 1 (i.e. 15A wall outlets) in car parks of snow resorts would largely solve the problem? It would at least keep the battery warm and add maybe a few % overall while parked. Should also help with Regen working when you leave and also cabin pre-heating.

If a Level 1 outlet is 10% the cost of a Level 2 and 1% the cost of Level 3, it would be a better approach to put in 100s of Level 1s and allow EVs to park there for as long as necessary rather than charging and then moving.

 

[cafz]

If a Level 1 outlet is 10% the cost of a Level 2 and 1% the cost of Level 3, it would be a better approach to put in 100s of Level 1s and allow EVs to park there for as long as necessary rather than charging and then moving.

Not sure those numbers hold up, but I agree that places like airport and ski resort carparks would be best served by widespread 15A sockets, eg one for every two spots.

 

[moa999]

As you say 2021, assume this is a MIC SR+ with the heat pump.
Shame the trip prediction didn't work at the start, but seemed very accurate for the remainder of the journey.

Be interested to see the same in a 2020 US SR+, which according to ABRP should still make it.

 

[GrimRe]

Not sure those numbers hold up, but I agree that places like airport and ski resort carparks would be best served by widespread 15A sockets, eg one for every two spots.

Which numbers? An IP66 rated 15A socket is ~$20. A 11kW AC Charger is ~$1,000.

16mm2 is about a big a conductor that residential electricians use. With that you could drive around 5x 15A outlets behind an 80A breaker. Where-as L2 you'd typically have 3 phase which means far more cabling and more expensive breakers. Only benefit is that you could network the chargers to reduce the current when at high utilisation.

Lots of dumb 15A everywhere would be the way to go.

 

[cafz]

Which numbers? An IP66 rated 15A socket is ~$20. A 11kW AC Charger is ~$1,000.

The trenching, conduit, mounting posts/bollards and the big one - labour - is going to be a large part of the cost so I don't think a 10-fold reduction in cost is likely.

I still said I agree that it's the way to go for destinations like that (where cars are often left for several days), though.

 

[Leeroy]

As you say 2021, assume this is a MIC SR+ with the heat pump.
Shame the trip prediction didn't work at the start, but seemed very accurate for the remainder of the journey.

Be interested to see the same in a 2020 US SR+, which according to ABRP should still make it.

Yes it is a MIC SR+
I did switch off climate as the range dropped to 8% but not sure if makes that much difference with the heat pump?? When it started to climb back toward 11% I turned it back on but mostly to keep the Windows from fogging up. I know Bjorn Nylands test showed about .8kw or so and the drive is only just over an hour, but I guess it ads up.

I was most surprised about the cold weather consumption, I don’t have any scanning apps but im guessing it was going to battery heating.

 

[Flatbat]

Curious, did you get any warnings to reduce speed to make Yea? Perhaps you had already slowed in any case. If not, you likely could have kept trucking without too much worry.

 

[Leeroy]

No nothing at all. As mentioned, only alert was as I reversed into the supercharger and even that alert doesn’t appear too common that I’ve found on any of the forums.

 

[Flatbat]

No nothing at all. As mentioned, only alert was as I reversed into the supercharger and even that alert doesn’t appear too common that I’ve found on any of the forums.

If this is the message you had, it is not uncommon. I see it a bit when it is colder than my usual driving conditions and the battery is low. I even got it today at 8 degrees & took this pic of it.

If your drive is becoming range limited the car will warn you to reduce speed to something slower like 90 kmh to make your destination. As you never got that message you probably did not have too much to worry about. Having said that, I feel your pain when you see the arrival % disappearing before your eyes. Next time try slowing from 100 to 80 for a while and you should see a noticeably improvement in % at destination within a few minutes.

 

[Flatbat]

I deliberately switched on the climate to preheat the battery about 20mins before departing the day carpark, however no battery heating whatsoever (parked for about 4hours.)
I did get a reduced regen as I first left the carpark, however no further alerts after the first one and 3/4 regen available the rest of the trip.

@Leeroy I was just thinking about this remark you made. A couple of thoughts
- I don't think you can actually tell battery heating is occurring in the model 3 as it does not have dedicated battery heater like the S/X. After a 4 hour sit in the snow the battery was probably not even be cold as there is a lot of mass there. If it was cold you should have seen this blue icon ("too cold to access all of its stored energy") and blue section on the battery, which my car is showing right now. If I plug it in and charge, the battery warms by way of the charging circuitry and the blue icon will go away.

- I think the intent of preconditioning is to do so while plugged in and charging to preserve your battery. Turning the heating on for 20min in the car park would have had a negative effect on your range & not warmed your battery. In the model 3 driving warms the battery, so just jumping in and heading off might have been a more efficient (but cold) way to go.

 

[cafz]

I don't think you can actually tell battery heating is occurring in the model 3 as it does not have dedicated battery heater like the S/X.

You definitely can tell.

If you turn on the climate control through the app and the battery is below optimal temperature (not necessarily cold enough to get the snowflake!), you can see the battery heater is on with a specific battery heater icon that appears in the top right hand corner of the climate screen on the app. There's no dedicated battery heater but it uses the motor as a battery heater even when stationary, by directing current through the motor windings in a way which heats the coolant but doesn't produce any torque.

 

[Flatbat]

There you go. I did not know the 3 gave an indication when heating the battery. As you say it uses the motors in waste heat mode. That aside I doubt Leeroy's car was cold soaked and in need of battery heat when he was at Buller.

 

[Wol747]

I love posts like this. People in Europe live this type of cold weather bizarreness everyday but then again, they have access to probably 10x the charging infrastructure.

I wonder if simple Level 1 (i.e. 15A wall outlets) in car parks of snow resorts would largely solve the problem? It would at least keep the battery warm and add maybe a few % overall while parked. Should also help with Regen working when you leave and also cabin pre-heating.

If a Level 1 outlet is 10% the cost of a Level 2 and 1% the cost of Level 3, it would be a better approach to put in 100s of Level 1s and allow EVs to park there for as long as necessary rather than charging and then moving.

I imagine the deal breaker would be billing the users. Dozens of sockets, each costing $xxx to install, let alone the electricity, would have to be amortised by charging the users - and doing that’s not trivial.

 

[Wol747]

>>….consumption was becoming sphincter clenching….<<

In the aviation world this used to be known as a “sixpence-halfcrown” event. Post decimal, I don’t know <g>.

 

[GrimRe]

I imagine the deal breaker would be billing the users. Dozens of sockets, each costing $xxx to install, let alone the electricity, would have to be amortised by charging the users - and doing that’s not trivial.

I'd pay $10 per day extra to park in a stop with a 15A with unlimited usage (at the snow that is, not anywhere else) wouldn't you? That would pay for the capital cost and operational cost (i.e. electricity) quick smart. In fact, it would be quite a good ROIC

The trenching, conduit, mounting posts/bollards and the big one - labour - is going to be a large part of the cost so I don't think a 10-fold reduction in cost is likely.

I still said I agree that it's the way to go for destinations like that (where cars are often left for several days), though.

Good point. Even so, I think you could do $200 per outlet on a large enough scale. Contrast that to $1,000 for the hardware then another $500 for connection per bay (increased complexity etc) for L2 its around 8x reduction.

If an EV owner is willing to pay $10 whether its L1 or L2 as there is zero competition at the top of a mountain, putting in a 15A would be a really great way to maximise profits.

 

[Anubis]

You definitely can tell.

If you turn on the climate control through the app and the battery is below optimal temperature (not necessarily cold enough to get the snowflake!), you can see the battery heater is on with a specific battery heater icon that appears in the top right hand corner of the climate screen on the app.

Good to know this.
Anyone got a screen shot of the screen with the icon?

 

[cafz]

.
Anyone got a screen shot of the screen with the icon?

 

[Candleflame]

I love posts like this. People in Europe live this type of cold weather bizarreness everyday but then again, they have access to probably 10x the charging infrastructure.

I wonder if simple Level 1 (i.e. 15A wall outlets) in car parks of snow resorts would largely solve the problem? It would at least keep the battery warm and add maybe a few % overall while parked. Should also help with Regen working when you leave and also cabin pre-heating.

If a Level 1 outlet is 10% the cost of a Level 2 and 1% the cost of Level 3, it would be a better approach to put in 100s of Level 1s and allow EVs to park there for as long as necessary rather than charging and then moving.

I have been on both sides of the... ehh ocean? It is a question of slightly different technicality. In Europe the distances are much smaller so the range matters less and chargers are more abundant. you also travel on the motorways if necessary for long distance driving which doesnt cause the same efficiency loss - the winter tires are being frozen by the cold which increases their efficiency (unlike Australia where it gets cold but not THAT cold so the winter tires are too soft. UK has the same problem, hence winter tires are not compulsary there). If you do travel longer distances people drive 140-150km/h as opposed to maybe 110-120km/h in Victoria which makes the consumtion of the HAVAC system less relevant.

Also people in europe dont know any better. Their cars are inefficient all year round. Not like in Aus where its 30C and the AC draws like 600W and we are stuck at 90 km/h on the motorway with a range of 600km haha.


From a technical standpoint, how do you drive a SR+ up Mt Buller? Like id assume on top of Mt Buller in winter you'd want winter tires but on the bottom you want your summer tires back at the winter tires get way too soft? Or do people bring all season tires?

 

[GrimRe]

Also last time I checked petrol is like $2.50Aud per litre? Imagine having twice the fuel consumption AND twice the fuel price