Musk said all cars would get HW 3.0, according to InsideEVs Article

[Tam]

How do you know what HW version you have?...

Please Click on your car menu,

Click on "Software" at the last bottom choice,

Under your VIN, please click on "Additional Vehicle Information".

 

[Tam]

I can attest to EAP (2.0/2.5) being nerfed as late as 12.2020 however 2.0 was notably worse. HW3 was marginally better but saw major improvement as of 16.2020.

I on the other hand can compare my 2017 Model X MCU1 HW2.0 and 2018 Model 3 MCU2 newly-upgraded-this-month-HW2.5-to-HW3.0 and their Autopilot performance are the same.

 

[ElectricIAC]

I on the other hand can compare my 2017 Model X MCU1 HW2.0 and 2018 Model 3 MCU2 newly-upgraded-this-month-HW2.5-to-HW3.0 and their Autopilot performance are the same.

YMMV. I just know that in EAP flavor, AP2 was a huge fail and kept trying to fling us toward the off ramp and jumping back into the travel lane violently every few exits on our latest loaner MX adventure.

And actually, looking back at it this was on 16.2020 same as my P3D. This is a big reason we chose to opt out of a 2017 AP2 MX and go with a 2019 HW3 MX.

 

[moorej999]

So according to this article you should be able to get HW3:
Tesla Delivered New Model 3s in China with Old Autopilot Processors
Granted, the article references vehicles made in China but I would think it would also apply to you? Have you contacted Tesla or the store where you had delivery? Again, I don’t think the car is “less safe” if you don’t have HW3 but i can understand your position.

I have and they said NO WAY I get an upgrade, unless I order FSD.

 

[moorej999]

I on the other hand can compare my 2017 Model X MCU1 HW2.0 and 2018 Model 3 MCU2 newly-upgraded-this-month-HW2.5-to-HW3.0 and their Autopilot performance are the same.

What were the test scenarios?

 

[moorej999]

One way is to read this: Step by Step How To Check If You Have HW3 (Physically)

You can see it now in the display.

 

[Tam]

What were the test scenarios?

They've been competently handling these freeway interchanges in my town driving at 70MPH (automatic speed reduction on curves). No difference in performances between HW2.0, HW2.5, and HW3.0 that I've been using:

No difference on handling from the speed of 70 MPH on Northbound I-5 and exit to a 25 MPH at Tejon Supercharger. This is the function of Enhanced Autopilot with Navigation on Autopilot (Auto Exit) but it can still handle that well with all the Hardware I've tried when I manually override the autosteer (no Auto Exit, it becomes manual exit as if it's plain Autopilot) and the either do TACC with manual steering or re-engage Autopilot.

They all keep lane well on freeways and city streets.

They all do an excellent job with Enhance Autopilot or non-HW3 FSD functions such as Auto Lane Changes very competently both on Freeways and city roads.

HW3 FSD still has the faults of all previous software/hardware versions: They all can kill me if there's a stationary vehicle in front while the automation system is set at 70 MPH because they all won't brake or if they do, I wouldn't notice and I have to manually intervene.

Yes, HW3 FSD still has phantom brakes!

 

[moorej999]

They've been competently handling these freeway interchanges in my town driving at 70MPH (automatic speed reduction on curves). No difference in performances between HW2.0, HW2.5, and HW3.0 that I've been using:

View attachment 556567


No difference on handling from the speed of 70 MPH on Northbound I-5 and exit to a 25 MPH at Tejon Supercharger. This is the function of Enhanced Autopilot with Navigation on Autopilot (Auto Exit) but it can still handle that well with all the Hardware I've tried when I manually override the autosteer (no Auto Exit, it becomes manual exit as if it's plain Autopilot) and the either do TACC with manual steering or re-engage Autopilot.

View attachment 556571


They all keep lane well on freeways and city streets.

They all do an excellent job with Enhance Autopilot or non-HW3 FSD functions such as Auto Lane Changes very competently both on Freeways and city roads.

HW3 FSD still has the faults of all previous software/hardware versions: They all can kill me if there's a stationary vehicle in front while the automation system is set at 70 MPH because they all won't brake or if they do, I wouldn't notice and I have to manually intervene.

Yes, HW3 FSD still has phantom brakes!

Try driving down a single lane windy road with parked cars. I had the experience of it breaking for a parked car after I passed it. Perhaps a recent software update fixed this?

 

[captain_sahaj]

How do you know what HW version you have? I bought my Model 3 in Sept 2019.

Do I have 2.5 or 3? Can I check somehow? I have no intention of ever buying or using FSD but I feel I’m missing out if I don’t have 3 and will therefore need to start a campaign, or petition, or something, to express my dissatisfaction at not having something I don’t actually need....

Go to settings and press view additional information

 

[JayNJ]

See Here's Elon Musk Saying All Tesla Cars Would Get HW 3.0

All cars produced from then on. Not all cars already produced.

 

[JayNJ]

Try driving down a single lane windy road with parked cars. I had the experience of it breaking for a parked car after I passed it. Perhaps a recent software update fixed this?

Autosteer is not intended for that use case. Divided highways only. Only FSD capabilities are being built for local roads.

 

[sduck]

My car was made on June 8, 2019

i've noticed you mention this repeatedly - do they have to tell you the exact date in Canada? Or is the exact date a new thing - I only have May 2108 on my car info. No exact date.

 

[moorej999]

i've noticed you mention this repeatedly - do they have to tell you the exact date in Canada? Or is the exact date a new thing - I only have May 2108 on my car info. No exact date.

I asked and Tesla gave me the date. I have it in writing.

 

[moorej999]

All cars produced from then on. Not all cars already produced.

And my car was produced after that.

 

[C141medic]

If it was me I’d research this further, especially in light of what happened in China. If HW3 was advertised on vehicles prior to your build date you may have some pushback. But, as I and others have mentioned lack of HW3 is not a safety issue. So your car is not more/less safe without HW3. I’ve had FSD from initial purchase since 2018 and I can take it or leave it. In hindsight, I would’ve been more than happy with just EAP/Autopilot.

 

[Tam]

Try driving down a single lane windy road with parked cars. I had the experience of it breaking for a parked car after I passed it. Perhaps a recent software update fixed this?

That's the function of FSD that covers all roads but that's not the function of Autopilot as @JayNJ mentioned.

So, as Autopilot is able to work in city roads, that's a bonus and not a requirement.

For those who just pay Autopilot, Tesla might not have an incentive to include those codes in the case you mentioned.

However, last year, both HW2 and HW2.5 did fail consistently with your scenario.

As they got software updated they got better but not cured.

Now that I have HW3.0, it's still the same: better but not cured.

This is also a kind of phantom brake. The cause is the RADAR is an imperfect tool to differentiate good harmless objects and very a deadly stationary vehicle in front especially at a higher speed. So to be extra cautious, it's programmed to brake even if that turns out to be a non-threatening object/scenario. That's unintentionally for the driver but intentionally designed that way. The trick is how to get an algorithm that doesn't collide at high speed into a stationary object in front and neither brake for a harmless car parking on the side.

Since the first Autopilot death in 2016, Tesla has been trying to improve this problem but I won't hold my breath on that.

"Working on using existing Tesla radar by itself (decoupled from camera) w temporal smoothing to create a coarse point cloud, like lidar"

 

[Tam]

...FSD with HW 3 will become safer than a human one day, then I want it...

In my experience: Auto Lane Change alone is worth the $CAD 10,000. It has refused to change lane on occasions when I thought my side was clear but there was a speeding car far away that I failed to notice or there's a car in my blind spot that I didn't notice in time both in city and freeways.

It has changed lane at all speeds even at stop-and-go in crowded metropolitans that I would have a hard time manually changing lane (too little free gap for me to manually maneuver).

With recent Traffic Lights and Stop Sign Control, I don't like to confirm green light with the gas pedal but actually, for now, I can rationalize to like it because it makes me more conscious of intersections than before. And that's a good thing. But this annoyance is only temporary because the car can go on green if there's a lead car with the latest version that I haven't got it yet.

It will get better and I think it will make my driving even better.

However, I don't think Level 3 or 4 as in Tesla Video Demo will happen any time soon.

In 1960, scientists gave it 20 years to happen. Recently, in the 2010's, it's all hyped up that it would happen in 2020.

It might be many more decades away and many versions of hardware away (HW4 is in the work already). HW3 is not the end of your bill (time to beg for more money for the next version after HW4, then HW5...). That means I might pay for HW4 in a few years to get better results.

But I don't want to sit on the sideline and wait. I want to grow old with its progression.

 

[moorej999]

If it was me I’d research this further, especially in light of what happened in China. If HW3 was advertised on vehicles prior to your build date you may have some pushback. But, as I and others have mentioned lack of HW3 is not a safety issue. So your car is not more/less safe without HW3. I’ve had FSD from initial purchase since 2018 and I can take it or leave it. In hindsight, I would’ve been more than happy with just EAP/Autopilot.

I was unequivocally told that the only way to get HW3 was to order FSD for 10k CAD.

 

[moorej999]

In my experience: Auto Lane Change alone is worth the $CAD 10,000. It has refused to change lane on occasions when I thought my side was clear but there was a speeding car far away that I failed to notice or there's a car in my blind spot that I didn't notice in time both in city and freeways.

It has changed lane at all speeds even at stop-and-go in crowded metropolitans that I would have a hard time manually changing lane (too little free gap for me to manually maneuver).

With recent Traffic Lights and Stop Sign Control, I don't like to confirm green light with the gas pedal but actually, for now, I can rationalize to like it because it makes me more conscious of intersections than before. And that's a good thing. But this annoyance is only temporary because the car can go on green if there's a lead car with the latest version that I haven't got it yet.

It will get better and I think it will make my driving even better.

However, I don't think Level 3 or 4 as in Tesla Video Demo will happen any time soon.

In 1960, scientists gave it 20 years to happen. Recently, in the 2010's, it's all hyped up that it would happen in 2020.

It might be many more decades away and many versions of hardware away (HW4 is in the work already). HW3 is not the end of your bill (time to beg for more money for the next version after HW4, then HW5...). That means I might pay for HW4 in a few years to get better results.

But I don't want to sit on the sideline and wait. I want to grow old with its progression.

My point is - this is not what Musk said we would get and I am disappointed.

 

[moorej999]

That's the function of FSD that covers all roads but that's not the function of Autopilot as @JayNJ mentioned.

So, as Autopilot is able to work in city roads, that's a bonus and not a requirement.

For those who just pay Autopilot, Tesla might not have an incentive to include those codes in the case you mentioned.

However, last year, both HW2 and HW2.5 did fail consistently with your scenario.

As they got software updated they got better but not cured.

Now that I have HW3.0, it's still the same: better but not cured.

This is also a kind of phantom brake. The cause is the RADAR is an imperfect tool to differentiate good harmless objects and very a deadly stationary vehicle in front especially at a higher speed. So to be extra cautious, it's programmed to brake even if that turns out to be a non-threatening object/scenario. That's unintentionally for the driver but intentionally designed that way. The trick is how to get an algorithm that doesn't collide at high speed into a stationary object in front and neither brake for a harmless car parking on the side.

Since the first Autopilot death in 2016, Tesla has been trying to improve this problem but I won't hold my breath on that.

"Working on using existing Tesla radar by itself (decoupled from camera) w temporal smoothing to create a coarse point cloud, like lidar"

You just proved my point - "better but not cured". Now I don't get "better" when I should have!