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My 2 day old P85D suddenly died in the middle of an intersection

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How would Tesla open the car remotely after the 12v was discharged. The car was dead. Are you saying you expected that the tow truck driver would be able to boost the 12v from the nosecone and that Tesla could remote unlock an unstable system from just the boost voltage without access to the center screen to set tow mode?


Good point about lack of power. My 12V didn't die. The tow company that was sent for mine had flat bedded over 100 Teslas, so yeah they're probably adequately versed relative to a two day owner to pop the nosecone--depends on the driver.

Also, I was told that the car could be moved on dollies that wouldn't require the car's cooperation or power.
 
That is why we bought a Porsche and not a Mazda. I am pretty sure she'll be OK. As much as I love my Tesla, I have to say that I've never had a serious problem with a high-end German car.
Anyway ... it is her choice and there is not much I can do about it at this point. Meanwhile, today I pulled into a gas station to withdraw money from an ATM and I enjoyed giving dirty looks to all the people filling up :)

Yeah very true difference between a Porsche and a Maxda. It really is a nice vehicle, and if your wife is happy that's what matters most. I have been in one before and the interior is immaculate I must say.
 
That is why we bought a Porsche and not a Mazda. I am pretty sure she'll be OK. As much as I love my Tesla, I have to say that I've never had a serious problem with a high-end German car.
Anyway ... it is her choice and there is not much I can do about it at this point. Meanwhile, today I pulled into a gas station to withdraw money from an ATM and I enjoyed giving dirty looks to all the people filling up :)

Ha, my wife's Cayenne S has not been anything near perfect. Battery issues, hole in the transmission, breaks needed replace after 30k and it eats oil. Currently the center console computer keeps resetting while driving and is going in next week for service. Did I mention it eats oil. Keep some in the garage as it needs some every 3k miles.
 
That is why we bought a Porsche and not a Mazda. I am pretty sure she'll be OK. As much as I love my Tesla, I have to say that I've never had a serious problem with a high-end German car.
Anyway ... it is her choice and there is not much I can do about it at this point. Meanwhile, today I pulled into a gas station to withdraw money from an ATM and I enjoyed giving dirty looks to all the people filling up :)

This is in humor, and not wishing anything bad, but, I admittedly will let out a chuckle if the Porsche fails...
 
Glad you are all OK.

I've fortunately had no real mechanical issues with my car, but I can see there is no way in this world I'd get my wife to drive one. We planned a family trip over Christmas of c.170 miles total and the forecasts warned of snow. (I'm in the UK and the forecasts are as reliable as reading tea-leaves).

I pressured my wife into leaving her Audi Q7 at home and taking the Tesla (saves on fuel after all). Of course for once the weather report was correct, and the conditions really hurt my battery range (I have a lowly 60). Despite plugging into a 2kW portable charger whilst at my parents and gaining 30 miles (in the summer I can do the whole trip easily and have 20 miles remaining), the last few miles were touch and go. I could see this 40 miles out, so started having to ration the AC, really didn't go down well... from that point home I had to listen to constant loop of "I told you so..." :(


When we finally did get home I couldn't get the car up my driveway to my home charger, and with 2 miles left on the clock, I had to phone round some friends to see if they would put my car up for the night on a slow charge...

She never liked the thought of me getting a Tesla, and whilst events like this I put down to an adventure/challenge, she just sees it as an inconvenience, and unfortunately this trip reinforced her EV prejudices. :(

In fairness I'm also not be brave enough to become an all EV family at the moment. Superchargers here are fairly spotty, and destination charging is a joke. Sometimes pragmatism has to overtake idealism, so while she is happy to ride round in an ICE, it actually works out very well for me.
 
When we finally did get home I couldn't get the car up my driveway to my home charger, and with 2 miles left on the clock, I had to phone round some friends to see if they would put my car up for the night on a slow charge...

Just a little clarity... if you had 2 miles left, why couldn't you get up the driveway? Snow? Seems like a not a Tesla specific issue... In fact, I'm not sure the Tesla was an issue at all for your trip since it looks like you made it round trip after your slow charge. Aside from cutting back on heat, seems more range anxiety than anything.

As a now all-EV household (two Model S), I can say there have been nothing but positives overall. The switch from ICE has been graceful and has no negative impact on daily driving. For trips it takes 5 minutes more planning, and a few % more time to allot for supercharging... and when you consider this is essentially prepaid/free fuel, well, it is hard to argue.

That said, my wife-to-be loves her Model S. :)
 
Just a little clarity... if you had 2 miles left, why couldn't you get up the driveway? Snow? Seems like a not a Tesla specific issue... In fact, I'm not sure the Tesla was an issue at all for your trip since it looks like you made it round trip after your slow charge. Aside from cutting back on heat, seems more range anxiety than anything.

As a now all-EV household (two Model S), I can say there have been nothing but positives overall. The switch from ICE has been graceful and has no negative impact on daily driving. For trips it takes 5 minutes more planning, and a few % more time to allot for supercharging... and when you consider this is essentially prepaid/free fuel, well, it is hard to argue.

That said, my wife-to-be loves her Model S. :)


You are absolutely right, the Tesla performed great. I've only got the RS-A2 tyres on, and I was still getting past lots of stranded cars! My driveway is VERY steep, and tbh I think the Q7 would struggle to get up. In fairness the only real impact of it being a Tesla (other than the heating issue, which if I'd paid more for the 85 is a little moot), was I felt uncomfortable leaving my car at the bottom of the drive with so little charge in sub zero temperatures. If it had vampire drained 2 miles, then it would be stuck. I'd have left the Q7 there without a second thought.

So really the car performed flawlessly, but ultimately it's about perception. Wife just doesn't like the car (here in the UK it's also a bit more of a "wacky choice" all her friends drive SUVs), this trip just gave her more ammo, and TBH I am somewhat to blame!

Of course I could get a new wife that does like them, but that would be very expensive :D
 
How would Tesla open the car remotely after the 12v was discharged. The car was dead. Are you saying you expected that the tow truck driver would be able to boost the 12v from the nosecone and that Tesla could remote unlock an unstable system from just the boost voltage without access to the center screen to set tow mode?

Yes. That's exactly what they did ~1 year ago.
 
This is in humor, and not wishing anything bad, but, I admittedly will let out a chuckle if the Porsche fails...


I doubt you'll get a chuckle. It is all a matter of volume and experience. Porsche has been building engines and cars for a LONG time and not innovating all that much. The result is a more reliable product at the expense of innovation. Tesla is the opposite ... They are hyper-innovating at breakneck speed (pun intended) and accepting that the odd failure is a small price to pay for changing the world. I respect that and I am willing put up with some issues in exchange for driving the coolest car on the planet. My wife is not.

The argument that a Tesla is as reliable is any other ICE car is a false one. Let's not kid ourselves. But that's fine because none of us expect it to be.

My other hobby is flying and with planes, failure means life or death. The engine I fly behind is a Pratt and Whitney Canada PT6 turboprop. Arguably one of the most reliable engines in aviation with a failure rate of one in one million hours. The secret to its reliability: very little has changed in the engine design since its debut in 1963. Tiny incremental improvement here and there. That is how you make a reliable product. You stop innovation in its tracks.
 
Glad you are all OK.

I've fortunately had no real mechanical issues with my car, but I can see there is no way in this world I'd get my wife to drive one. We planned a family trip over Christmas of c.170 miles total and the forecasts warned of snow. (I'm in the UK and the forecasts are as reliable as reading tea-leaves).

I pressured my wife into leaving her Audi Q7 at home and taking the Tesla (saves on fuel after all). Of course for once the weather report was correct, and the conditions really hurt my battery range (I have a lowly 60). Despite plugging into a 2kW portable charger whilst at my parents and gaining 30 miles (in the summer I can do the whole trip easily and have 20 miles remaining), the last few miles were touch and go. I could see this 40 miles out, so started having to ration the AC, really didn't go down well... from that point home I had to listen to constant loop of "I told you so..." :(

When we finally did get home I couldn't get the car up my driveway to my home charger, and with 2 miles left on the clock, I had to phone round some friends to see if they would put my car up for the night on a slow charge...

She never liked the thought of me getting a Tesla, and whilst events like this I put down to an adventure/challenge, she just sees it as an inconvenience, and unfortunately this trip reinforced her EV prejudices. :(

In fairness I'm also not be brave enough to become an all EV family at the moment. Superchargers here are fairly spotty, and destination charging is a joke. Sometimes pragmatism has to overtake idealism, so while she is happy to ride round in an ICE, it actually works out very well for me.

As I said before, I totally sympathize with osama - in more ways than one, while that Porsche surely is a nice looking car, it would more than just kill me to write that check for it, I would - ironically - self-combust, but on the other hand a couple's outlook on things may not be the same and that's a fact of life too. My wife drives her ICE and I hope we keep it as long as necessary before all-BEV is possible, without ever buying another. ;) I could recommend a plug-in hybrid of some sort, if all else fails, as a compromise she'd be happy with and I guess would only maim me, not kill, but I would prefer not to support such strategies by old car makers. smac mentioned Audi, it really pains me to see how little they try. Vorsprung durch Technik my a**. At least some other Germans try a little, but it is still so small steps.

smac's story is very familiar too. What is an adventure to one, is an inconvenience to another. I have been in some minor range-related trouble over my similar bias to avoid ICE use as much as possible and made my share of overly optimistic and, frankly, foolishly brave miscalculations (no flatbeds, though) and heard no end of it at the time. I also reference to the previous studies on the average male trust towards technology being higher than the average female trust, which may explain a little why the scenario probably a little more often plays out this way gender-wise. There is also likely some average difference in use scenarios for cars (say, hauling family vs. driving alone) adding to that effect that probably has, on average, gender-specific characteristics.

All that said, experience brings with it confidence and I fully expect that as our BEV experiences mature, and the infrastructure around us matures and becomes more familiar, my wife's perspective too will change. After all, she doesn't like an ICE car because she likes smelly gasses and miniature explosions moving vehicles, she wants transportation she feels comfortable with and currently - and for all her life - that has been an ICE car. Comfort levels torwards BEVs will go up over time if the likes of Tesla and the society in general play their cards right.

Most important, though, are the children. As we grew up fueling our parent's cars, if we were so lucky on an exciting visit to this grand place called the gas station, the next generation learns to plug-in - and it will become second nature, I hope. So, Tesla/BEV owners, educate your kids and grandkids. :)

Just a little clarity... if you had 2 miles left, why couldn't you get up the driveway? Snow? Seems like a not a Tesla specific issue... In fact, I'm not sure the Tesla was an issue at all for your trip since it looks like you made it round trip after your slow charge. Aside from cutting back on heat, seems more range anxiety than anything.

The problem with that is, though, it becomes a Tesla (or BEV) specific issue when the infrastructure and convention to remedy the low-range situations is lacking and the primary solution (fast charging on route or home charging in this case) lacks or fails. An ICE you would just drive to a gas station, the one - or the likes of which - you've learned to use since you learned driving and if that one isn't open, you just take it to whichever of the dozen you occasionally use nearby. To an extent, same with car maintenance, which is still very scarce on non-existent for BEVs or Teslas in many places. In almost all of the civilized world there is significant ICE infrastructure and much, much less so for EVs at this point. Add to this the fact that Tesla doesn't represent the long-existing car-maker pool either, which is part of the infrastructure that exists, so it has even less infrastructure in many places - for example, no current ability to charge from DC chargers where supercharging isn't available and many places where a distant ranger is the only service center there is.

With a Tesla, depending on the region, you may or may not have a charging station or a backup charging station nearby. And what smac's wife, for example, (even smac by the sound of it) definitely lacks is convention - even if there is a charging station somewhere, they may not know where or how to operate it or when it is open etc., because it is all quite new and things take planning instead of just doing it by gut-feel alone. A gas station one can usually find by sight alone anywhere they go, and you kind of have a mental map of them in your region, much less so with an EV charging station that remains quite invisible, a secret club of sorts. The society in general is still just trying to find the right way to operate EV charging in many places, with the little charging that there is still being in a sort of pilot mode, tucked away somewhere where it fit (as opposed to a visible lot being reserved for it by city planners) etc. And even if you find a charger, you may find out it is not compatible with your car. Thanks to our lovely ICE industry (urgh), Europe is probably five years behind the average U.S. situation. Now, Tesla superchargers are of course a happily visible exception to this and effort that is spearheading good change, but that isn't readily available everywhere. And superchargers won't be compatible with other cars. Think if gas stations only supported some car brands...

It doesn't help that charging an EV is currently quite slow, compared to what people are used to when filling up their ICE. If you don't see the benefits, or appreciate them enough, you may only see added inconvenience and wait.

For me, and by the sound of it for a lot of us here, all that planning and research and technical details and adapters and experiencing the growing pains of a world recreating its skin so to speak, is very exciting. As smac said, it is an adventure and many of us probably are taking part partly because it is an adventure. But for someone who isn't interested in finding out the details of what and where they get charging and service, and learning a whole new set of new tricks while living in this still-niche fringe, it becomes very offputting fast. In any case, most people don't want a niche solution for anything that they aren't particular about - they often want a convenient, mainstream solution, one that other people use too.

It is probably reminiscent of what driving an ICE was some 100+ years ago, infrastructure-wise. I'm pretty sure some spousal arguments arised over the use of horses vs. an automobile. :) I have nothing against horses, but I hope one day not in the too distant future finding support infrastructure for an ICE is as hard as it is today to find a place for your horses to drink outside your favourite watering hole.
 
My other hobby is flying and with planes, failure means life or death. The engine I fly behind is a Pratt and Whitney Canada PT6 turboprop. Arguably one of the most reliable engines in aviation with a failure rate of one in one million hours. The secret to its reliability: very little has changed in the engine design since its debut in 1963. Tiny incremental improvement here and there. That is how you make a reliable product. You stop innovation in its tracks.

Off topic...

Meridian or TBM? By the way... I' know two folks who had PT6 failures... One on a Cheyenne 2, and one on an EPIC home built. The Cheyenne pilots simply secured the engine and landed. I was at the airport when they came in and they were quite shaken. The Epic pilot ditched in a lake, but all was fine. The 1/million figure is for the engine itself, but they exclude the fuel system. The fuel system (the culprit in both of these failures) has a less stellar record.
 
I doubt you'll get a chuckle. It is all a matter of volume and experience. Porsche has been building engines and cars for a LONG time and not innovating all that much. The result is a more reliable product at the expense of innovation. Tesla is the opposite ....

As a former Porsche owner, I got a chuckle out of that. You might want to familiarize yourself with their fora. Boxster, Cayman, Carrera GT and Cayenne all have their issues.
 
All cars fail. Especially if they are Porsches. ;)

But the interesting assertion posed by osama is, does Tesla break more often - on average - than a larger-volume ICE from a traditional manufacturer?

A good question.

One could argue it might break even less often, due to a different drivetrain with less moving parts. But the newness of both Tesla and BEVs might suggest the opposite.
 
*shrugs*

As far as I can tell, all the infrastructure I need for my daily needs and my normal trips up and down the east coast USA already exists. I have a HPWC at my house, I have a J1772 at my family destination in NJ, a 14-50 outlet at a family destination in NC, and superchargers close enough for everything else. After Charlotte, NC supercharger opens, I'll never be more than 100 miles from one 99.99% of the time, so I can always hop back on the supercharger network from wherever I am. So, if I get stranded somewhere, I personally can't blame the infrastructure, or lack thereof.

I don't dwell on the other 0.001% of the time, because every vehicle has something that will come into play that other 0.001% of the time.

I always find the argument that if a gas station is out of service you can just move on to the next one a very funny one. Really, that's not going to help you if you pulled into that gas station with not enough left in the tank and not enough fuel to make it to the next gas station... (then of course the ICE advocate will start to argue how unlikely that would be in an ICE, blah blah...)

The point is it's just the same scenario as pulling into a charging station with no range left to find the charger doesn't work. As a non-EV/ICE statement: If you arrive at your vehicle's refueling station with no fuel, you're not going to make it to the next refueling station. People need to just stop making the argument that there are plenty of gas stations and thus that is an argument against EVs... it's a very sad argument.
 
All cars fail. Especially if they are Porsches. ;)

But the interesting assertion posed by osama is, does Tesla break more often - on average - than a larger-volume ICE from a traditional manufacturer?

A good question.

One could argue it might break even less often, due to a different drivetrain with less moving parts. But the newness of both Tesla and BEVs might suggest the opposite.

There are certainly fewer things to go wrong on an EV - but that doesn't necessarily mean anything for reliability if some of those things are happening at higher rates.

I would certainly be interested to see some statistical failure data here - to make it meaningful you also have to bucket the severity of failure - how often does the car need something fixed during regular maintenance, need an unscheduled visit, or end up on the side of the road.

Aside from JD Powers type surveys, I haven't really seen data generated/presented for this sort of thing - and the surveys I've seen haven't attempted to segregate the levels of failures.
Walter
 
Off topic...

Meridian or TBM? By the way... I' know two folks who had PT6 failures... One on a Cheyenne 2, and one on an EPIC home built. The Cheyenne pilots simply secured the engine and landed. I was at the airport when they came in and they were quite shaken. The Epic pilot ditched in a lake, but all was fine. The 1/million figure is for the engine itself, but they exclude the fuel system. The fuel system (the culprit in both of these failures) has a less stellar record.


TBM 850. It has the newer PT6A-66D variant. I am not aware of any failures of the 66D due to the fuel system.
 
@AnxietyRanger.

Yep that about sums it up perfectly.


On this particular trip, there are no Superchargers enroute, and 1 offline AC/DC charger. I could have detoured 15 miles and got to another AC/DC charger in the hope it was working.

I so rarely drive outside a 75 mile radius, and most days I'm doing 15 mile commutes. 95% of the time in my situation the car is just like an ICE in terms of anxiety worry (i.e. none) It's when the unexpected happens, that you are left a little exposed.

Even I didn't go "all-in" when I decided on the Tesla, I faced a choice, I could trade in my beloved Lotus Elise and get a P85, or keep it and buy a 60... So far I've not regretted my choice, other than maybe one trip where I was _just_ about within round trip range of an 85, however with no Superchargers en-route or destination charging, I drove the Lotus (which is more than a little tiring on motorways!!). So the bigger battery might bring my the original worry free figure up to say 97%

Things are improving here, and a couple of key Superchargers and more reliable destination charging it will finally push it up to 99%... at that point my next car will probably be a P85D, and the Lotus will go!

Anyway we are getting way off topic, so maybe we need a "Wife(/Girlfriend/Partner) Acceptance Factor" thread. :)