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Navigate on Autopilot is Useless (2018.42.3)
- Thread starter wk057
- Start date
I'm usually cool with moving over a lane to let people merge when it's safe and convenient to do so. However, it's not quite correct for people on the highway to yield to merging traffic. The onus is on them to yield to the highway traffic. So, I wouldn't expect this to be correct or desired behavior from NavOnAP
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
While I agree that may be correct for the other driver to yield. I don't think the Tesla should assume the other driver knows that fact and won't run into me. Avoidance is the best policy
It should avoid if it has to, but it doesn't have to make a hole. I don't think this is the reasoning for the behavior anyway.
At the urging of many, I once again tried Nav On AP 2018.48.
Improvements:
No more lane change aborts (so far)
Suggests changes to the right instead of wanting to stay to the left
Got worse/broken/not improvements:
The suggestions are objectively worse than ever. The lane changes it suggests are beyond useless, especially heading back to the right.
It now hugs the right line in an interchange HARD every time I've let it take an exit on its own.
It just disables nav on AP completely when approaching a cloverleaf type exit. "Nav on AP ending in xxx ft..."
Lots of oversteer on lane changes and exits now.
Detailing, the lane changes to the right seem to just be time based. It suggests changes regardless of the environment. I'm in the left lane going 15 MPH faster than a truck to the right that it can see and it's like, "Confirm lane change out of the passing lane..." Um, no thanks.
I've taken over for every exit it tried on its own now. Before it would at least not try to kill me. Now it basically rides on the right side line of the exit, or worse past it, and it doesn't correct this especially in tighter ones. Huge regression there because this actually at least functioned somewhat before.
Two left exits it tried it oversteered several feet over the left lane of the ramp, requiring a takeover. Lane changes are hit or miss with oversteer now too.
I just don't get it, honestly.
Disabled it again.
At the urging of many, I once again tried Nav On AP 2018.48.
Improvements:
No more lane change aborts (so far)
Suggests changes to the right instead of wanting to stay to the left
Got worse/broken/not improvements:
The suggestions are objectively worse than ever. The lane changes it suggests are beyond useless, especially heading back to the right.
It now hugs the right line in an interchange HARD every time I've let it take an exit on its own.
It just disables nav on AP completely when approaching a cloverleaf type exit. "Nav on AP ending in xxx ft..."
Lots of oversteer on lane changes and exits now.
Detailing, the lane changes to the right seem to just be time based. It suggests changes regardless of the environment. I'm in the left lane going 15 MPH faster than a truck to the right that it can see and it's like, "Confirm lane change out of the passing lane..." Um, no thanks.
I've taken over for every exit it tried on its own now. Before it would at least not try to kill me. Now it basically rides on the right side line of the exit, or worse past it, and it doesn't correct this especially in tighter ones. Huge regression there because this actually at least functioned somewhat before.
Two left exits it tried it oversteered several feet over the left lane of the ramp, requiring a takeover. Lane changes are hit or miss with oversteer now too.
I just don't get it, honestly.
Disabled it again.
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
I know what you are talking about. My X suggested a lane change from middle lane to right lane to prepare for an exit a mile ahead. A truck was in that lane. The X slowed to let the truck move ahead and then it changed lanes. Thus, if you are thinking it wanted to move into that lane with a truck there, it would not have done that.
mtndrew1
Active Member
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
help me understand that. If I ignore the suggestion, it just goes away without needing to press a button.
I'm debating about making the trip to Portland tonight on Autopilot or simply taking the train.
I just upgraded my Model 3 to the latest firmware version. As in the one that adds the fart app, and it adds the behavior where it will prompt a driver move out of the passing lane.
But, I don't expect my experience to me any different today than it was a few days ago.
The biggest issues with NoA that I had a few days ago on the same trip is the lack of good quality nav info.
It didn't know which lane to be in from 405S to I5S, and got this wrong.
Numerous times it didn't know which lanes were valid lanes to be in for staying on I5 all the way from where I got on (at the 405S to I5S junction) all the way down to Portland.
Now you wouldn't think this would be much of an issue because I could just ignore the prompts. The problem with ignoring is eventually it will start to try to slow down. It's slowing down because it wants to get over, but there is no reason for getting over so I won't let it. Initially I played silly games with it where I'd push the accelerator slightly when it slowed down to get me back to speed. Eventually I gave up on it, and went back to TACC only until I got past the point of confusion.
It also didn't handle interchanges ramps the way it should. I wouldn't care which lane it hugged as long as it was a smooth operation, but it wasn't a smooth operation. One time it got way too close to a wall that I took over.
If all those weren't bad enough it couldn't properly handle being in the right lane on I5 in WA state. The reason is the on-ramps onto I5 create a big right lane where they're supposed to merge in. This causes AP to try to recenter.
Lastly it aborted at least 10% of the lane changes for no apparent reason.
In summary Navigate on Autopilot is not at all what I expected.
I expected a system that would use Navigation to enhance the experience while on AP along with a system that would act as a "Hey, you gotta be in this lane to get where you're going".
But, that's not what it is.
All it seems to be right now is AP like it was with automatically taking an off ramp. It might be the right one, and it might not be the right one. It still gets confused by off-ramps it's not even supposed to take.
It's not at all maps driven like I expected.
It wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal if Elon wasn't so busy trying to convince people how awesome it was.
I'll probably create a post in the Northwest forum of this site to see what kinds of experiences my neighbors have had. It seems like having good maps for the WA, OR region simply wasn't a priority.
I just upgraded my Model 3 to the latest firmware version. As in the one that adds the fart app, and it adds the behavior where it will prompt a driver move out of the passing lane.
But, I don't expect my experience to me any different today than it was a few days ago.
The biggest issues with NoA that I had a few days ago on the same trip is the lack of good quality nav info.
It didn't know which lane to be in from 405S to I5S, and got this wrong.
Numerous times it didn't know which lanes were valid lanes to be in for staying on I5 all the way from where I got on (at the 405S to I5S junction) all the way down to Portland.
Now you wouldn't think this would be much of an issue because I could just ignore the prompts. The problem with ignoring is eventually it will start to try to slow down. It's slowing down because it wants to get over, but there is no reason for getting over so I won't let it. Initially I played silly games with it where I'd push the accelerator slightly when it slowed down to get me back to speed. Eventually I gave up on it, and went back to TACC only until I got past the point of confusion.
It also didn't handle interchanges ramps the way it should. I wouldn't care which lane it hugged as long as it was a smooth operation, but it wasn't a smooth operation. One time it got way too close to a wall that I took over.
If all those weren't bad enough it couldn't properly handle being in the right lane on I5 in WA state. The reason is the on-ramps onto I5 create a big right lane where they're supposed to merge in. This causes AP to try to recenter.
Lastly it aborted at least 10% of the lane changes for no apparent reason.
In summary Navigate on Autopilot is not at all what I expected.
I expected a system that would use Navigation to enhance the experience while on AP along with a system that would act as a "Hey, you gotta be in this lane to get where you're going".
But, that's not what it is.
All it seems to be right now is AP like it was with automatically taking an off ramp. It might be the right one, and it might not be the right one. It still gets confused by off-ramps it's not even supposed to take.
It's not at all maps driven like I expected.
It wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal if Elon wasn't so busy trying to convince people how awesome it was.
I'll probably create a post in the Northwest forum of this site to see what kinds of experiences my neighbors have had. It seems like having good maps for the WA, OR region simply wasn't a priority.
Well, you can still use Autopilot without NOA enabled. Though the diving into exits/entrances does get annoying. At least TACC still mostly works!
Normally I'd use TACC only. At least back with AP1
TACC only works fine on this trip except one spot on I5N, and one spot on 405N where it will do a false braking event due to an overhead sign. The one on 405N is right when the road dips a bit below a sign so this completely freaks it out.
But, I wouldn't get to see how NOA is different in this version than last.
I'm also debating about how to document the behaviors. Maybe I'll try mount my phone so it can record the LCD to document the stupidity.
I thought Tesla had a specific autopilot team email, but I'm not finding it.
Correct, at least for a suggestion to switch to a faster lane
But, if it's asking you to change lanes because it thinks you need to be a specific lane then it will be relentless.
Tesla's slogan really should be "The car for those who love to argue with their cars"
not only that. In the future, where they'll enable unconfirmed lane changes, the car still warns you ahead of time, but there's still no way to decline short of disengaging.
Sticking with my original tweet on the topic.
Jason Hughes on Twitter
Tesla Clippy.
"Hey! It looks like you're trying to drive to Nebraska? Would you like some help?"
@elonmusk @tesla
mtndrew1
Active Member
Mine does not go away. It continues to prod me to change lanes for a long time and even leaves gaps in traffic to accommodate the lane change it thinks is going to happen. I’d like to tell it to just stop worrying about changing lanes until a freeway interchange or exit is coming up.
SpudLime
Active Member
Still with you on this. Its suggestion to change lanes is always too late even in mad max mode.
The ONLY reason I dont disable is that I have hope that it is recording(learning) my actions and the NN will eventually understand.
The ONLY reason I dont disable is that I have hope that it is recording(learning) my actions and the NN will eventually understand.
On me it never did this unless it thought I should be in a different lane than I was.
I would advise turning off the lane change recommendation based on speed as I think this creates confusion as to lane changes needed versus just lane requests to pass slower traffic.
What surprised me more than anything else was how bad it was at knowing which lanes ended, and which lanes continued on. So it sometimes would do what you described where it would purposely slow down to leave gaps to get over even when it never needed to get over.
I am pretty sure the logic behind this thing is very simple. From the map, it knows it needs to be in the right lane, or the left lane. To get ready it just asks for lane changes to the right (or left) until there's no lane to the right (or left) of the current lane. It doesn't really incorporate any information about lanes that are ending. I'm not sure the maps even have that information.
Do not try to use it through the construction in Tacoma. It does not yet know about the lane realignment. If you do use regular AP through there, be prepared to have to accelerate, as it will think you have gone to surface streets. It is annoying that it is not getting this yet via fleet learning, or kicking back to regular AP at a minimum.
