Near annual replacement of 12V battery is typical according to Tesla Service Tech

[jamieb]

Woke up to the '12 volt battery needs servicing' warning this morning. 23 months old, 23k miles. Had the LTE upgrade installed 10 days ago then the car sat in the garage for the last week while I was on the East Coast for Thanksgiving. Don't know if either are related.

Car runs fine, Tesla looked at the logs remotely, said the battery was at 14 volts and I wasn't at risk of a non-starting car in the near future but that I should replace the battery in the next few weeks.

 

[FlatSix911]

In my opinion, the main difference is the size of the battery. If the battery was similar in size to an ICE car's battery, it would last much longer.

What size is the 12V battery, IIRC it's a standard automotive size?

 

[JRP3]

It's a 33Ah sealed AGM http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25485&d=1373629187

 

[Ingineer]

This one also fits: Bosch Premium Performance Battery Group Size U1RT | Product Details | Pep Boys

(Originally for a Mazda Miata)

 

[FlatSix911]

It's a 33Ah sealed AGM http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25485&d=1373629187

Thanks - found it http://www.cdtechno.com/product/vrla/deep_cycle.html

http://www.cdtechno.com/pdf/lit/12_1126_0815.pdf

 

[mknox]

Two years for me on original battery.

Are you sure? Mine has been proactively replaced at least twice (no warnings or failures) and the only way I know this is by carefully going over my Service Order paperwork and finding it listed in the repair activities.

 

[JPP]

Just back from my 36k service (...actually at 35k) on my May 2013 S85. Had a 12v replaced at about 6 months (end 2013). Now about 2 years in and no issues. No replacement at this service. All good (...fingers crossed).

 

[redi]

My 12 volt battery lasted 27 months before the "contact service" warning. I have to say, after watching the process of replacement (what a pita location, assembly/disassembly in my VIN for a battery change-out), Tesla's designer/engineers must have believed that the 12 volt battery was going to "last forever".

I understand in the newer VINs the battery has been moved to a more serviceable location, but I have not personally eyeballed that to be true.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

I am not sure if anyone suggested it, but would a LiFe 12V pack work better here? They are supposedly last 2000+ cycles and 10+ years shelf life. I hear they last forever in ICE cars. Considering all the charging and discharging that happens in a Tesla, I think LiFe 12V pack will make much more sense.

Something like this:
Amazon.com: Lithium Iron Phosphate 12V 35AH 480CCA Battery for Golf Cart: Electronics

Or if you want something bigger:
Amazon.com: Lithium Pros C680 12V Lithium-Ion Powerpack Battery with Top Mount Battery Terminal: Automotive

 

[Larry Chanin]

My Model S will be three years old next week. I have about 24,500 miles. To my knowledge my 12 v battery was only replaced once proactively by the service center a few months after it was delivered. I have never received a warning message regarding my 12 v battery in those three years.

A couple of weeks ago I noticed that a coolant pump seemed to be running almost constantly. I also noticed that my vampire drain was over 15 miles per day even with my car set to Energy Savings ON, Always Connected. This situation persisted for a week until the service center could schedule my car for a visit. (The problem turned out to be a fault in the electronics associated with the drive unit pump along with a refrigerant leak.)

With the exception of the early battery replacement I have never seen another battery replacement noted on any of my service tickets, including this last visit when the battery was subjected to more than three times the typical vampire load.

Now that I have mentioned my good fortune, no doubt I have jinxed myself. :wink:

Since I'm coming up on 25,000 miles I plan to take the car in for annual maintenance in a few weeks. I'll make a point of checking with the service center to ensure they check the records on my 12 v battery replacement and replace the battery if warranted.

Larry

I had my car in for annual maintenance and made sure that the service center knew that my 12 v battery hadn't been replaced in close to three years. Even though I have never seen a warning message they informed me that the message came up while they were woring on my car and they replaced the battery.

I think that it's great that parts are proactively replaced during maintenance to minimize driver inconvenience while on the road.

Larry

 

[JRP3]

I am not sure if anyone suggested it, but would a LiFe 12V pack work better here?

Yup, been discussed a few times, along with LiTiO as well. Both would be superior choices, and though a bit more expensive than SLA I'd think the lack of warranty work and customer dissatisfaction would make it well worth it.

 

[Steph_S]

Tesla Montreal wants to charge me $300CAD for a 12v battery replacement because of the number of 'charge cycles' on my vehicle. I already had my 12v replaced once when the car was fairly new due to the old 12v battery supplier.

I paid for - and am covered for the extended annual service, and I also think that tesla's "infinite mile 8-year warranty on drivetrain and battery" should cover the 12v battery. A battery is a battery. I'm not happy.

The annual service should cover "all wear and tear items" except tires.
Elon's 8-year "battery pack" warranty should cover this as well.

I declined to pay for this.

 

[BertL]

Tesla Montreal wants to charge me $300CAD for a 12v battery replacement because of the number of 'charge cycles' on my vehicle. I already had my 12v replaced once when the car was fairly new due to the old 12v battery supplier.

I paid for - and am covered for the extended annual service, and I also think that tesla's "infinite mile 8-year warranty on drivetrain and battery" should cover the 12v battery. A battery is a battery. I'm not happy.

The annual service should cover "all wear and tear items" except tires.
Elon's 8-year "battery pack" warranty should cover this as well.

I declined to pay for this.

I agree with you. ...especially as the 12V battery is not called out as a customer-replaceable responsibility like it is in most other vehicles documentation, nor are there references that some number of charges will require the owner to replace it in the warranty or service agreements (at least in the US versions I have access to). Tesla provides no specs for the 12V battery in the Owner's Manual and provides no easy access for the owner to replace it like other vehicles do, to me, indicating it's an owner responsibility. My suggestion is to first talk to the SC Manager, then I'd escalate with a business-like letter to Tesla. GOOD LUCK.

 

[jbcarioca]

I had my car in for annual maintenance and made sure that the service center knew that my 12 v battery hadn't been replaced in close to three years. Even though I have never seen a warning message they informed me that the message came up while they were woring on my car and they replaced the battery.

I think that it's great that parts are proactively replaced during maintenance to minimize driver inconvenience while on the road.

Larry

Congratulations, Larry, on escaping the dreaded 12V failure some of us have. I'm really curious to know the actual proportion of 12V failures. Yours, in particular, seems to be essentially typical for high-load ICE 12v replacement. My experience with Maserati, BMW, MB, Jaguar all have had roughly three year battery life. Porsche has been about two years fro both of those I have had. In spite of all our complaints, including mine, Tesla has handled that far better than all those others.

My personal nasty surprises included a Jaguar battery failing six months after delivery and the full price charged to me because of unspecified 'abuse'. Then there was a Porsche that had a battery failure the first winter that I also had to pay for. In both of those i did not fight much. In retrospect I should have because there were ostensibly battery manufacturer service life guarantees.

Contrast that with my Tesla experience which had a 12 V failure in my garage immediately following installation of a third-party charging system, which finally was replaced because it appeared to be the fault. Tesla picked up my car on a flatbed, gave me a loaner, replaced the battery and coordinated the fix with my third party charging provider. Imagine that! Tesla fixed somebody else's fault and picked up the tab. I never was told exactly what the problem was, but my charging system was immediately replaced, tested by Tesla and the third party prior to my hookup, and I was refunded all the charges I had had from the third party during the entire affair.

You're lucky not to have had battery trouble, Larry, but if you had had Tesla would have wowed you with their superb service.

JC

 

[Steph_S]

I agree with you. ...especially as the 12V battery is not called out as a customer-replicable responsibility like it is in most other vehicles documentation, nor are there references that some number of charges will require the owner to replace it (at least in the US version I have access to). Tesla provides no specs for the 12V battery in the Owner's Manual and provides no easy access for the owner to replace it like other vehicles do, indicating it's an owner responsibility. My suggestion is to first talk to the SC Manager, then I'd escalate with a business-like letter to Tesla. GOOD LUCK.

Thank you for your comments. I have 122 000km (75 800 miles) on the car. I can believe that the charge cycles of the 12v might prompt a replacement, but I don't believe it's worth $300 considering i am covered under the service agreement and tesla's 8-year battery warranty.

I require my car today and therefore can not spare the time to have this installed at this time. (I'm writing this from the service centre) . I'll wait until I receive a "12v needs replacement" warning and then call a Ranger (I also prepaid for this). I will escalate up the chain at that time.

 

[Cottonwood]

Thank you for your comments. I have 122 000km (75 800 miles) on the car. I can believe that the charge cycles of the 12v might prompt a replacement, but I don't believe it's worth $300 considering i am covered under the service agreement and tesla's 8-year battery warranty.

I require my car today and therefore can not spare the time to have this installed at this time. (I'm writing this from the service centre) . I'll wait until I receive a "12v needs replacement" warning and then call a Ranger (I also prepaid for this). I will escalate up the chain at that time.

The irony is that the more the car is driven and actively charging the HV, traction battery with the HV->14V DC-DC converter active, the less cycling and wear the 12V battery gets...

 

[JRP3]

That doesn't sound right. The DC/DC should be active any time the DC load pulls the 12V battery down low enough, and there is more DC load when driving than when not.

 

[iffatall]

I have owned my car for over two years (~30k miles) now. My 12V battery has never been replaced. Should I be worried?

 

[Lloyd]

My 2013 original battery was replaced in the first year. Two years + later the replacement is still doing fine. I questioned the service center about replacing it, and they said that the newer batteries are lasting longer as they were intended.

 

[iffatall]

My 2013 original battery was replaced in the first year. Two years + later the replacement is still doing fine. I questioned the service center about replacing it, and they said that the newer batteries are lasting longer as they were intended.

So do you think my Dec 2013 car might have the newer one?

Will have to eventually get mine replaced anyway? Do I need to make sure it happens before my warranty expires.