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Near rear end collision captured on cams
- Thread starter rhaekar
- Start date
Good job for the SUV driver to miss you. Their reactions were good and obviously saved you from a lot of drama. Hopefully they werent injured.
I think first and foremost the CHP was at fault. Unless there was an actual emergency and he had to stop in that spot, and even then, he should have called a second unit and have it stationed further back on the highway to warn drivers.
Use the common sense, never stop on the highway or on/off ramps. That's irresponsibly dangerous. It's just saying, let's see out of the next 50 cars, which ones will pay a bit less attention and crash. He should give a fine to himself.
As much as I agree with a previous post saying that the driver who slowed down to an almost stop should be fined, yes, but cops can't do that because they also want drivers to slow down and move over when they are on the highway for the officer's safety. Which makes sense.
Use the common sense, never stop on the highway or on/off ramps. That's irresponsibly dangerous. It's just saying, let's see out of the next 50 cars, which ones will pay a bit less attention and crash. He should give a fine to himself.
As much as I agree with a previous post saying that the driver who slowed down to an almost stop should be fined, yes, but cops can't do that because they also want drivers to slow down and move over when they are on the highway for the officer's safety. Which makes sense.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Not only did the CHP have his blinker on, but he also had his flashing lights on AND he moved about a foot forward as if he was going to enter the roadway. I think I would have yielded to him also as soon as I saw him start to move with his wheels cranked to the left.
A completely boneheaded move by the CHP!
How do you know he wasn’t stopped for legitimate reason? Maybe he was just completing a traffic stop and the car he pulled over just left. To think he stopped there just for fun seems quite presumptive.
Your eyes must be better than mine. I slowed it down and CHP looks to be in the same position (close to the white line) when we first see him to the point the white car slows down. He’s got his wheels pointed left, which is normal during a traffic stop ic case someone rear ends his vehicle. It has less of a chance to darting completely forward. If the OP can stop in time, no reason the car behind him shouldn’t be able to. Unless or course he was going too fast or not paying attention to traffic in front of him. Looks to be both in this instance given how fast he swerved.
It’s an emergency vehicle stopped on the shoulder. I’m surprised people are blaming the Cop.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I agree that he probably just completed a traffic stop (I mentioned that above).
It's hard (impossible) to tell from the video on Youtube - you'd have to see the original full resolution dashcam, but the question is WHEN the cop started signaling. It MAY have been going when the cop first came into view, but the resolution makes it impossible to tell. The impression I got, given that the cop immediately moved and was signaling around the time the white car stopped, was that he had just thrown out his blinker, because he was clearly in drive - he moved nearly right away.
My reaction, if I came around a corner, saw a cop NOT signaling, with emergency lights on, I wouldn't worry about it; I would assume a traffic stop, slow down a bit, and go by giving plenty of room. But if that cop with emergency lights then started signaling, and I felt I had room to stop safely, I would probably stop. I don't really feel like I would have a choice. If I didn't feel I could stop safely I would probably blow by (swerving out of the lane to provide clearance and hoping ELDA doesn't go off
), but I would feel very squeamish about that option. However, on a blind exit...I don't know...I might not stop in either case...but I wouldn't want to be put in that scenario! If indeed the cop threw a blinker without making sure there was NO traffic coming, in that blind scenario - I passed this exit yesterday, it's pretty blind given the speeds involved - I think it's kind of on him. You have to expect that traffic is going to come to a screeching halt if you have emergency lights on, and you signal that you want the road. The only time you enter the road as a cop in that scenario is when there is no one coming and you will inconvenience no one. I think this is likely part of their training, just like the angled parking. Otherwise they'd be causing accidents all the time.
I would also say, again, it's really hard to tell speeds from the dashcam video. It's not like I don't think the white truck has some blame - they were clearly not paying enough attention on a blind corner! You have to always assume that there are terrible shenanigans going on just around the blind corner, and have a plan.
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Dr. J
Active Member
Around a blind curve on a fast-moving freeway, at an exit. I'm not blaming the cop. But the outcome is kinda predictable.
Agreed, but unfortunately the Cop isn't the one who dictates where the traffic stop takes place, it's the person he's pulling over that dictates it. Odds are, he initiated a traffic stop on the highway and the person pulled onto the shoulder on the curve. Trust me, the Cop has no interest in stopping on the highway shoulder, or exit shoulder unless he absolutely has to. The exit shoulder is way safer than the highway shoulder, even around a blind corner in this case. But again, not his choice and the OP and white car in front had no problem stopping. Why didn't the care behind the OP? Because they were going too fast and/or not paying attention.
Dr. J
Active Member
Agreed on all counts. The one thing in the control of the cop is when he signals to get back on the road. I can't tell from the video whether that choice was optimal. But you're right--the fool that ran off the road was speeding excessively and should be ticketed.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I totally agree with this, but I also think that with great power comes great responsibility. Depending on exactly what was the TIMING of the blinker/signalling (see above), the CHP's actions were a contributing factor.
I agree with everything you said. I can't tell either when he threw on the blinker, but I don't think it really matters. He obviously wasn't going to pull out until safe. Isn't it up to the people driving behind other people to be responsible for stopping if someone in front of them does? If he has a blinker on or not, people should slow down for the lights. Some people even stop for them, regardless of if a blinker is on or not.I agree that he probably just completed a traffic stop (I mentioned that above).
It's hard (impossible) to tell from the video on Youtube - you'd have to see the original full resolution dashcam, but the question is WHEN the cop started signaling. It MAY have been going when the cop first came into view, but the resolution makes it impossible to tell. The impression I got, given that the cop immediately moved and was signaling around the time the white car stopped, was that he had just thrown out his blinker, because he was clearly in drive - he moved nearly right away.
My reaction, if I came around a corner, saw a cop NOT signaling, with emergency lights on, I wouldn't worry about it; I would assume a traffic stop, slow down a bit, and go by giving plenty of room. But if that cop with emergency lights then started signaling, and I felt I had room to stop safely, I would probably stop. I don't really feel like I would have a choice. If I didn't feel I could stop safely I would probably blow by (swerving out of the lane to provide clearance and hoping ELDA doesn't go off
If indeed the cop threw a blinker without making sure there was NO traffic coming, in that blind scenario - I passed this exit yesterday, it's pretty blind given the speeds involved - I think it's kind of on him. You have to expect that traffic is going to come to a screeching halt if you have emergency lights on, and you signal that you want the road. The only time you enter the road as a cop in that scenario is when there is no one coming and you will inconvenience no one. I think this is likely part of their training, just like the angled parking. Otherwise they'd be causing accidents all the time.
I would also say, again, it's really hard to tell speeds from the dashcam video. It's not like I don't think the white truck has some blame - they were clearly not paying enough attention on a blind corner! You have to always assume that there are terrible shenanigans going on just around the blind corner, and have a plan.
So the blinker should dictate whether or not someone three cars back should be driving responsibly?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yeah, I just ask myself how I would manage re-entering the freeway in this scenario. I would not do it the way the cop did. I would wait for traffic to clear before I even started signaling.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
No, of course not. That would be a nonsensical thing to say. That's why I said it was a contributing factor. If the cop had not been signaling, my guess is this accident would not have occurred, in SPITE of the bad driving by the third car.
And the CHP had a choice about when to turn on that blinker. And it's something they have to do many, many times a day. They're very experienced with how and when to enter the freeway. In general, in my experience, they do it very well, even if they have their emergency lights on (because they are trained to not cause accidents!). That is all I am saying.
Yes, and if the car he pulled over hadn't been violating the law, he wouldn't have been there in the first place, are we now blaming the car he pulled over for the car almost hitting the OP? Where does it stop? So, big deal, he turned on a blinker and didn't proceed, and likely didn't intend to until it was clear. I suppose we can agree to disagree, but the fact an emergency vehicle is stopped on the road on the shoulder, whether he has a blinker on or not shouldn't matter. Who knows if the white car would have stopped anyway. Can't we just put blame on the person at fault? The JA that was driving terribly?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yes, I believe it is the law in California to slow down or move over for emergency vehicles, just like in quite a few other states.
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
We can agree to disagree, though I actually don't think we disagree much. In the end, it is the white truck's fault - you have to be driving at a speed where you can stop safely and be alert.
That being said, there have been many times in my daily driving that I have had to modify my driving and behavior to accommodate other people's extremely bad driving to avoid an accident. It is my duty as a driver to avoid accidents, even if an accident that would otherwise occur wasn't going to be my fault! Similarly, I also try to drive in a way such that no one else has to change their driving to avoid hitting me.
The CHP also has that duty, but more so, especially given the fact that they have the right of way when their emergency lights are on.
It's very clearly an extremely dangerous activity to be stopped by the side of the freeway, and also to re-enter it. There are procedures and guidelines to follow to minimize risk. My guess is that the CHP did not completely follow their standard procedure & training in this case. It's possible their training isn't granular enough to recommend HOW to signal to enter the freeway, but my guess is that it does. But who knows...
Looks like the Cop caused the whole mess.
You should shake the SUV for not ramming into you. Just because you could stop quicker doesn’t mean the SUV could and didn’t do anything wrong. He knew he couldn’t stop so he avoided you and the cop. Didn’t look like he was following to close either. Until you slammed on your brakes. SUV made a potentially really bad situation for 3 cars just a not so great situation for himself.
You should shake the SUV for not ramming into you. Just because you could stop quicker doesn’t mean the SUV could and didn’t do anything wrong. He knew he couldn’t stop so he avoided you and the cop. Didn’t look like he was following to close either. Until you slammed on your brakes. SUV made a potentially really bad situation for 3 cars just a not so great situation for himself.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I have found it's really hard to make this determination from these dashcam videos due to the warped perspective. I looked at some landmarks quickly and it looks like he was following at less than a 2-second following distance (it looks like closer to 1 to 1.5 seconds), and that is far too close. Should be 2-second minimum (if you have performance tires!), and ideally longer at freeway speeds, and it was definitely not that.
On this exit, it is easy to exit and come around that corner at 70mph. The hill coming down to it is quite steep and there is always a lot going on. Sometimes traffic can be backed up at that exit. I always am on high alert in that area.
With the original file it would be easier to measure it, but seems hard on Youtube to go frame by frame.
