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Need feedback on which suspension (coil/air) coming from BMW and AMG cars.
- Thread starter rainman50
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
Gizmotoy
Active Member
That's right. I'm switching to new tires this spring or summer, most likely. The tires I want, Michelin Pilot Super Sports, aren't available in stock 19" sizing so I haven't quite decided what to do yet.
If you go for the P85, I'd give some consideration to purchasing with the 21's and getting a set of the 19's for winter. The car overpowers the 19's, but they're good for the cold and snow. The 21's with summer tires are not that good in the winter.
dennis
Model S Plaid
No.
I'd highly recommend a test drive in a P85+ if you have not already taken one. The significantly better handling convinced me to upgrade the suspension on my P85, and I found the ride and road noise from the stiffer suspension and 21's was not an issue.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
As I understand it, there is an alternative option from the factory to the base all-season tires (and with the base all-seasons I mean the Goodyear Eagle RS-A2 245/45R19). And this alternative seem to come standard on the P85 (as well as the regular 85 kWh)… The alternative being these Michelin Primacy tires:
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Gizmotoy
Active Member
By all accounts I've read the Goodyears have worse grip than the Michelins, despite being summer tires.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
Ok, maybe I got the wording wrong... Do these Michelins have worse grip than the Goodyears?
Gizmotoy
Active Member
I don't believe so. The general consensus is the Michelins are better in every way (except cost).
dennis
Model S Plaid
All Signatures were delivered with air suspension. My car now has the identical suspension components to a P85+ - all rear links and bushings, shocks, sway bars, wheels and tires were upgraded to the P85+ spec.
On the other hand, my original P85 air suspension had softer bushings in the rear subframe and lower control arms compared to current P85's with air suspension. So the handling improvement I got was greater than comparing a current P85 with air to a P85+ (with air).
I'm wondering that if I got the P85 air and 21's that it might be enough to maybe not have that "floating " feeling that people talk about. Also gripping when accelerating in turns is important. I'm trying to keep open options of running 19's or 20's if I think the 21's are too noisy. If I got the P85+ it looks like I could not go to 19's during the summer according to Tesla.
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dennis
Model S Plaid
As stated before, my P85/air/21s had the floaty feeling. The only difference is that new cars come with stiffer bushings in the rear subframe and lower control arms as compared to my delivered Signature.
If it were me making this decision, I would ask Tesla to provide me with test drives in both a P85+ (air/21s) and a P85/air with 19" wheels and the Michelin Primacy tires. That's the only way I know of to compare the handling and the noise from the tires.
if you can afford it the P85+ is the best combo of sport and comfort. I did choose between S85 and P85+. P85 was never an option for me. S85 is for me like a BMW 550 and the P85+ like the M5 but better to use BMW language. P85 seems to be more of a M5 without the handling... Not that diferent from many US powercars... ;-)
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
If you do a back to back comparison, do make sure you pay attention to date of manufacture. An early P will feel different from one produced with the new sub-frame bushings and that car will feel different from one produced with the new lower control arm bushings. It's best to compare a current P and P+.
Again. Thanks for the info and the suggestions. I'll have to see if I can find a Tesla store that has a P85+ and a P85 with the newer suspension mechanicals. What date did they start using all the new bushings and control arms? Maybe a P85 with air and newer suspension mechanicals might be good enough for me.
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mnx
2018 M3P
I checked, and Michelin Pilot Super Sports are still not available in 245/45R19.
Do you know when these changes in the bushings took place? I called a service center and they was not aware of the bushing changes. He said there were no technical bulletins on it.
One another note, since you are quite knowledgeable on the performance of the Tesla, I'm not a high performance person. I like decent handling and really like the pickup of the P85. I'd probably not be the best candidate for a BMW M5, more of a 540iA sport which I have. So knowing that would you still think that I would go for a P85+. I'm trying to find a Tesla store that has one but at the moment there is not one that would be guaranteed to have one in the time frame I would be able to drive it. My last decision on the Tesla is on the suspension and I'm having a difficult time deciding. You had commented in another thread that a P85 with coil suspension would be closer to a 540iA sport.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
I see this two different ways.
First, it really is personal preference so anything I might say is purely based on my personal preferences. I was always an M5 fan right up until they did the V10. I love that approach in a race car and have no use for it in a street car so I moved over to the 540 and then 535 as I could modify the boost tables and make it a blast to drive. Applying this to MS and I bought the P+ then promptly removed the softer air suspension and replaced it with the more immediate feel of coils. Obviously my tastes are out there a bit so I'm not sure my reference point is worth much. Your opinion on this subject is the one that matters thus the recommendation to drive them back to back.
Second, I look at it from a value standpoint. If I had it to do all over again, I'd go P85 on coils with 19s then lower the car where I wanted it and perhaps change to the front to P+ dampers. I prefer less sway bar so that is a plus with the P. The current production P has the right sub-frame and lower control arms. I'd then store the 19s for resale and put a nice light weight set of rims on the car with the better performing less expensive Pilots. Very good value.
WRT the sub-frame and lower control arms, my 4288 P85 had the new sub-frame while sigs did not. I have no idea where in-between they changed over. I did order a set of lower control arms for my wife's Sept 13 delivery S85 and found, when they came in, that they had the stiffer bushings which meant my wife's car also had the stiffer lower control arm bushings. I know P+s had the stiffer LCA bushings from day one so somewhere between the first P+ deliveries and my wife's S85 delivery Tesla decided to move all production to the new LCAs. Again, I do not know where in the months between they did this. Sorry I can not be of more help. I just ferreted out what I needed to know at the time and moved on.
First, it really is personal preference so anything I might say is purely based on my personal preferences. I was always an M5 fan right up until they did the V10. I love that approach in a race car and have no use for it in a street car so I moved over to the 540 and then 535 as I could modify the boost tables and make it a blast to drive. Applying this to MS and I bought the P+ then promptly removed the softer air suspension and replaced it with the more immediate feel of coils. Obviously my tastes are out there a bit so I'm not sure my reference point is worth much. Your opinion on this subject is the one that matters thus the recommendation to drive them back to back.
Second, I look at it from a value standpoint. If I had it to do all over again, I'd go P85 on coils with 19s then lower the car where I wanted it and perhaps change to the front to P+ dampers. I prefer less sway bar so that is a plus with the P. The current production P has the right sub-frame and lower control arms. I'd then store the 19s for resale and put a nice light weight set of rims on the car with the better performing less expensive Pilots. Very good value.
WRT the sub-frame and lower control arms, my 4288 P85 had the new sub-frame while sigs did not. I have no idea where in-between they changed over. I did order a set of lower control arms for my wife's Sept 13 delivery S85 and found, when they came in, that they had the stiffer bushings which meant my wife's car also had the stiffer lower control arm bushings. I know P+s had the stiffer LCA bushings from day one so somewhere between the first P+ deliveries and my wife's S85 delivery Tesla decided to move all production to the new LCAs. Again, I do not know where in the months between they did this. Sorry I can not be of more help. I just ferreted out what I needed to know at the time and moved on.
Thank you very much? You are very helpful. Each time I read on this forum I get more insight into the Model S.
Referencing your second paragraph. So you would go to lighter weight 20's or 21's or stick with 19's?
Interesting that you also had a 540i, probably the manual model.
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