-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
taurusking
Member
As far as I can tell.... there is a clear division among MS owners...some agree with how Tesla announced auto pilot features and some don't agree how Tesla handled it.
I encourage all members not to pass comments like..."You are not running TMC"...."I feel sorry for anyone who does business with you".............should be avoided.
These are more personal attacks and I wish moderators suggest members not to post such comments
Please respect others...everyone has their own perspective
I encourage all members not to pass comments like..."You are not running TMC"...."I feel sorry for anyone who does business with you".............should be avoided.
These are more personal attacks and I wish moderators suggest members not to post such comments
Please respect others...everyone has their own perspective
Agree with taurusking: lets be respectful. This applies to the both sides of the debate. The words screwed, embarrassment, financial hit, etc. have negative connotations in relation to the company and to the owners supporting the announcement. Lets not use these either.
Also, I don't quite understand where the embarrassment comes from. Are we worried that a random passer by on the street would disgrace the owner because this particular MS doesn't have AWD and autopilot? Or something worse can happen that I'm missing? Should I be worried?
Also, what financial hits are we talking about here? The purchase was made with the best information available at the moment on both sides. The P85+ car still works, the 0-60, mpg, bps, cu.ft, kWh and all other numbers are exactly the same as they were before the announcement and nobody is forcing the owner to sell. So, where is the financial hit?
From my perspective, the only feature the OP's car has lost was "the latest and greatest feature set". Well, tough cookie, because everybody expects fast development pace from Tesla (and some of us love them for that). Counting on keeping this feature for long is like moving to Seattle looking for sunshine. In other words, it's not a reasonable expectation when buying a Tesla product. The buyers know that (this information is easily available on the forums and reviews). One can't reasonably claim that this upgrade was a surprise any more than claiming that $100K purchase was made without any research.
By this definition, every company messes up every single upgrade. Some companies have it staged, but the same thing happens every time, EVEN IF you know of the upcoming model change. This is how it usually looks like:
step1: a new model comes out. The MSRP is fixed, but dealers sometimes mark the price up. Notice: the markup doesn't happen with Tesla, and I consider it advantage Tesla;
step2: few months/years down the road, the novelty wears off and the markups disappear. Now the buyers can negotiate below MSRP. How much below -- depends on the set of hidden factors (the market is not perfect: it's skewed against the buyers since they have significantly less information than the sellers). Also doesn't happen with Tesla: another advantage Tesla;
step3: few years before the next model comes out (both the buyers and sellers know approximate length of the update cycle), the incentives and discounts roll in. They roll in at one particular day, so whoever bought a car one day before the incentives were introduced, is EXACTLY in the same situation the OP is in. Do we see onslaught of people returning new cars back to the dealers right after Christmas sales drive events are announced?
By my count, Tesla is ahead in 2 out of 3 steps in the model cycle (and that 3rd one doesn't really have an answer anyways). They only have them coming in a rapid succession, and therefore we see this topic here every time a new thing is introduced (the Plus package, the D battery, etc. etc.). I'd say we need to lay it off and enjoy the drive.
Also, I don't quite understand where the embarrassment comes from. Are we worried that a random passer by on the street would disgrace the owner because this particular MS doesn't have AWD and autopilot? Or something worse can happen that I'm missing? Should I be worried?
Also, what financial hits are we talking about here? The purchase was made with the best information available at the moment on both sides. The P85+ car still works, the 0-60, mpg, bps, cu.ft, kWh and all other numbers are exactly the same as they were before the announcement and nobody is forcing the owner to sell. So, where is the financial hit?
From my perspective, the only feature the OP's car has lost was "the latest and greatest feature set". Well, tough cookie, because everybody expects fast development pace from Tesla (and some of us love them for that). Counting on keeping this feature for long is like moving to Seattle looking for sunshine. In other words, it's not a reasonable expectation when buying a Tesla product. The buyers know that (this information is easily available on the forums and reviews). One can't reasonably claim that this upgrade was a surprise any more than claiming that $100K purchase was made without any research.
By this definition, every company messes up every single upgrade. Some companies have it staged, but the same thing happens every time, EVEN IF you know of the upcoming model change. This is how it usually looks like:
step1: a new model comes out. The MSRP is fixed, but dealers sometimes mark the price up. Notice: the markup doesn't happen with Tesla, and I consider it advantage Tesla;
step2: few months/years down the road, the novelty wears off and the markups disappear. Now the buyers can negotiate below MSRP. How much below -- depends on the set of hidden factors (the market is not perfect: it's skewed against the buyers since they have significantly less information than the sellers). Also doesn't happen with Tesla: another advantage Tesla;
step3: few years before the next model comes out (both the buyers and sellers know approximate length of the update cycle), the incentives and discounts roll in. They roll in at one particular day, so whoever bought a car one day before the incentives were introduced, is EXACTLY in the same situation the OP is in. Do we see onslaught of people returning new cars back to the dealers right after Christmas sales drive events are announced?
By my count, Tesla is ahead in 2 out of 3 steps in the model cycle (and that 3rd one doesn't really have an answer anyways). They only have them coming in a rapid succession, and therefore we see this topic here every time a new thing is introduced (the Plus package, the D battery, etc. etc.). I'd say we need to lay it off and enjoy the drive.
dhrivnak
Active Member
+1 Romp. Virtually all products get improved all the time. Sometimes manufacturers announce the features ahead of time. Sometimes they do not. If you must have the latest and greatest I feel sorry for you as you could never be satisfied for more than a short period of time.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Yes, you are right. I made one of the offensive comments and when I read back over it, it looks bad. I apologize to the OP.
I generally think Tesla didn't have a choice and this is the model they have been using - incremental upgrades.
The ICE companies have a predictable change with model years. When 2015 comes out, 2014s get discounted - especially if there was a big change. People who pay full sticker (not necessarily MSRP+) for a fresh new model are happy. People who get a discount on a 2014 are happy. Everyone wins.
This is the downside (IMO) of fixed pricing. For the ICE companies, everyone wins. The only one that doesn't is the late 2014 buyer who still paid full retail because he didn't research the 2015 upgrades. Or he couldn't wait. Or whatever. But the sophisticated auto buyer understands the model year timing and can research the predicted upgrades. The buyer who wants the latest pays more. Again everyone wins.
The challenge with Tesla is that most (essentially all) buyers are sophisticated. The unsophisticated buyer does not order a car 2 months in advance. These buyers are used to benefiting from above average knowledge in the marketplace. Tesla removes this advantage. They kind of have to because the order stream would shut off if they announced a new model year 3 months in advance.
Arguably the sophisticated buyer knows this about Tesla and shouldn't be upset - which seems to be the opinion of most people here. And certainly from now going forward, all buyers should beware.
The change in loaner depreciation really put a $ value on it for recent but before October buyers re autopilot. The increase in AWD pricing helped ease the pain though.
The ICE companies have a predictable change with model years. When 2015 comes out, 2014s get discounted - especially if there was a big change. People who pay full sticker (not necessarily MSRP+) for a fresh new model are happy. People who get a discount on a 2014 are happy. Everyone wins.
This is the downside (IMO) of fixed pricing. For the ICE companies, everyone wins. The only one that doesn't is the late 2014 buyer who still paid full retail because he didn't research the 2015 upgrades. Or he couldn't wait. Or whatever. But the sophisticated auto buyer understands the model year timing and can research the predicted upgrades. The buyer who wants the latest pays more. Again everyone wins.
The challenge with Tesla is that most (essentially all) buyers are sophisticated. The unsophisticated buyer does not order a car 2 months in advance. These buyers are used to benefiting from above average knowledge in the marketplace. Tesla removes this advantage. They kind of have to because the order stream would shut off if they announced a new model year 3 months in advance.
Arguably the sophisticated buyer knows this about Tesla and shouldn't be upset - which seems to be the opinion of most people here. And certainly from now going forward, all buyers should beware.
The change in loaner depreciation really put a $ value on it for recent but before October buyers re autopilot. The increase in AWD pricing helped ease the pain though.
With the Prius we saw exactly that whenever a new model was announced (at least for genII and genIII). Prices of used Prius tanked for a couple of months until the glut of used ones was worked through, then it went back up to the previous levels.
I'd say this was a tie, not a win.
Similar threads
