New FSD Beta Button for 2021 Refreshed Plaid and Long Range

[MarcG]

Can you explain 'not' staying back from cars without AP in engaged? Not sure why I need to speed up and stay closer to cars in order to not get docked. I got docked while AP was engaged as well. Multiple freeway trips with AP engaged and I have been docked.

You likely were too close (within a second) of a car while driving over 50mph without AP engaged for enough time (even if it felt really short) that it counted as a high percentage of time, relative of the time you were 1-3 seconds behind a car going over 50mph without AP engaged.

The way it works is like this:

1. Calculate how much time you drove within less than 1 second behind a car while going over 50mph without AP engaged
2. Calculate how much time you drove within 1 to 3 second behind a car while going over 50mph without AP engaged
3. Divide 1 by 2, and you have your unsafe following percentage
4. Note: time spent while driving with AP engaged does not count for either scenario 1 or 2

It sounds like you’re not spending enough time in scenario 2. So even if you spent just half a second in scenario 1 for the entire trip, the fact that you’re mostly using AP means that you’re probably only spending a few seconds on scenario 2, hence your high “unsafe following” percentage.

Example: you drove for 30 minutes, but 29 of those were on AP. Of the 1 minute you did not have AP engaged, you spent 0.5 seconds within a second of a car in front while going over 50mph, and 5 seconds within 1 to 3 seconds behind a car while also going over 50mph. The other 54.5 seconds you were going under 50mph. Hence, your unsafe following is 0.5/5 = 10%.

Make sense?

 

[Oil Freedom]

This isn't just a game. The first users are the ones training the system how to drive. I would much prefer the initial FSD be a very smooth and cautious driver. Not a typical Tesla Plaid driver . This isn't a ploy Tesla is using to delay releasing the perfect FSD they have, they are actually selecting the driving style they want the software to have. Seems like some people forget these details....

Just to be clear, I'm not treating driving and road safety as a game. Since I opted into the FSD beta queue, trying to raise my Tesla Safety Score is a game since we do need to modify our driving to game the scoring system to get the higher score. It's just playing by the rules imposed by the game. This does not mean I'm driving unsafely. It does mean I'm having a different kind of fun with my car and probably making some other drivers wonder why I'm so timid. Once I've been given FSD beta, I look forward to using it appropriately and providing useful feedback.

 

[Oil Freedom]

If you're a driver in the Boston area, "Gap 7" means "Please, everyone, cut in front of me".

Totally believe it! Drove there years ago and quickly learned new required behavior at four-way stop sign intersections. It was very simple: It's your turn if you go through the intersection first. Who stopped in which order was no more relevant than the color of your car!

 

[brunla]

You likely were too close (within a second) of a car while driving over 50mph without AP engaged for enough time (even if it felt really short) that it counted as a high percentage of time, relative of the time you were 1-3 seconds behind a car going over 50mph without AP engaged.

The way it works is like this:

1. Calculate how much time you drove within less than 1 second behind a car while going over 50mph without AP engaged
2. Calculate how much time you drove within 1 to 3 second behind a car while going over 50mph without AP engaged
3. Divide 1 by 2, and you have your unsafe following percentage
4. Note: time spent while driving with AP engaged does not count for either scenario 1 or 2

It sounds like you’re not spending enough time in scenario 2. So even if you spent just half a second in scenario 1 for the entire trip, the fact that you’re mostly using AP means that you’re probably only spending a few seconds on scenario 2, hence your high “unsafe following” percentage.

Example: you drove for 30 minutes, but 29 of those were on AP. Of the 1 minute you did not have AP engaged, you spent 0.5 seconds within a second of a car in front while going over 50mph, and 5 seconds within 1 to 3 seconds behind a car while also going over 50mph. The other 54.5 seconds you were going under 50mph. Hence, your unsafe following is 0.5/5 = 10%.

Make sense?

Well your explanation is helpful. Still confusing, but that's ok. I think part of the problem for me is when a car suddenly changes lanes in front of you on the highway without AP and there is that brief amount of time while they are accelerating past you, they are closer than expected. The one thing I will say about it, it is the most sensitive of any of the criteria and the hardest to control. I know now if I touch the brakes at all, I'm going to get docked. But at least I can prepare for that in most conditions. (Besides people cutting in front of you or sudden yellow lights from the distance when regen won't stop the car.)

 

[cwanja]

Just to be clear, I'm not treating driving and road safety as a game.

To which you then say

trying to raise my Tesla Safety Score is a game since we do need to modify our driving to game the scoring system to get the higher score.

Why are you gaming the system to get a higher score? Drive like you normally would and if you get a low score, maybe you should reflect on your driving habits. Once you get the FSD beta and start driving like it is Mad Max, you are going to be angry when they remove FSD beta. So just drive like you did before the "button" and get FSD beta when you get it.

 

[Oil Freedom]

Sure, cwanja, I'll get right on that and will spend quality time reflecting deeply on your comments. This may or may not include why strangers (not you, of course) project and assume things about other people they've never met. In the meantime, have a wonderful day and stay safe out on the roads!

 

[MarcG]

Well your explanation is helpful. Still confusing, but that's ok. I think part of the problem for me is when a car suddenly changes lanes in front of you on the highway without AP and there is that brief amount of time while they are accelerating past you, they are closer than expected. The one thing I will say about it, it is the most sensitive of any of the criteria and the hardest to control. I know now if I touch the brakes at all, I'm going to get docked. But at least I can prepare for that in most conditions. (Besides people cutting in front of you or sudden yellow lights from the distance when regen won't stop the car.)

Happy it was helpful, but please feel free to expand on why you're still confused.

Your example of a car especially cutting in right in front of you will only count negatively if (a) you were driving over 50mph, (b) you were NOT driving with AP engaged, and (c) the car ended up less than a second in front of you.

In these situations, what I do is anticipate the cutting in, and engage AP as soon as possible so that the "unsafe following" doesn't get counted.

I do agree with you that it is overly sensitive and seems like a high (and potentially unfair) percentage dock, relative to other measures.

But don't worry too much about it. The good news is that unsafe following is also the least impactful measure when calculating the safety score percentage, so even if it's higher than others, it will have much less impact.

For example, assuming all other metrics are 0, just 5% hard braking will drop your score to 87%, but 5% unsafe following will keep it at 100%.

Even at 20% unsafe following, if all other metrics are 0%, you will still score 100% (true score will be 99.5496% but Tesla uses rounded numbers, so you're good).

 

[jebinc]

Thoughts?

Wiki - MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

You can reboot without stopping. Autopilot even still works while it is rebooting :)

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[drtimhill]

That is all possibly true, but in general, if you have to judge in general using only a couple metrics, theirs should provide good data. Not that a few bad apples can get in, but I can't think of a better simple formula. They can't do this on a case by case basis for every mile of driving.

True, but my point was, why use only a couple of simple metrics? After all, even with the current stack, the car knows if you are approaching a yellow signal, so why can't it make allowances for that? The whole metrics system seems very much a quick and dirty last-minute thing to me.

As someone else has noted, it's probably just designed to find people who ARE smart enough to "game" the system .. since these are the kind of people who know the car well enough to be able to handle the chores of beta testing.

 

[Oil Freedom]

As someone else has noted, it's probably just designed to find people who ARE smart enough to "game" the system .. since these are the kind of people who know the car well enough to be able to handle the chores of beta testing.

Interesting, and maybe true that they really want to focus on people who know their cars and their autonomy, really well. However, I think it's more likely they've just copying the same metrics / model already used by insurance companies and their own plug-in devices. Those are limited to the typical car's systems plus whatever is added to the box (like an accelerometer). I do expect Tesla to upgrade their scoring system to include their vision system. Seems running a red light is pretty serious, even if most non-Tesla's don't have the first clue about such things.

 

[auger]

FYI on FSD rollout and scoring refinement. Everyone with a perfect score will get the button tomorrow night along with 10.2. Pause rollout for awhile. If the first group doesn't screw it up, more will follow.

 

[brunla]

I'm a little concerned with the yoke and FSD beta. I don't believe there are any new refreshed S models in the program (that I have seen). In YouTube videos people let the wheel slip through their fingers while it is fully turning, so they can take control at any moment. With the yoke, that is obviously not possible. With the rectangular shape, this seems like it is going to be a little trickier to navigate during right and left turns. I love driving the yoke, but a little worried about it with FSD.

 

[jebinc]

I'm a little concerned with the yoke and FSD beta. I don't believe there are any new refreshed S models in the program (that I have seen). In YouTube videos people let the wheel slip through their fingers while it is fully turning, so they can take control at any moment. With the yoke, that is obviously not possible. With the rectangular shape, this seems like it is going to be a little trickier to navigate during right and left turns. I love driving the yoke, but a little worried about it with FSD.

You can always withdraw from the beta program, if you are concerned.

 

[MarcG]

I'm a little concerned with the yoke and FSD beta. I don't believe there are any new refreshed S models in the program (that I have seen). In YouTube videos people let the wheel slip through their fingers while it is fully turning, so they can take control at any moment. With the yoke, that is obviously not possible. With the rectangular shape, this seems like it is going to be a little trickier to navigate during right and left turns. I love driving the yoke, but a little worried about it with FSD.

Yep, I’m with you and called this out in different threads a couple of weeks ago. I’m still willing to try FSD in the city with the yoke, but I have a feeling it will feel safer with a round wheel.

 

[brunla]

You can always withdraw from the beta program, if you are concerned.

There is no need to be rude or snarky on a thread I started. This is a place for people to come and discuss this new technology and how a new steering yoke will play into it. I want to hear thoughts and ideas about it. Not sarcasm. I paid for FSD like everyone else did and it is completely human to wonder how this will work together.

 

[brunla]

Yep, I’m with you and called this out in different threads a couple of weeks ago. I’m still willing to try FSD in the city with the yoke, but I have a feeling it will feel safer with a round wheel.

It's just going to be interesting. I haven't seen any videos with the yoke and how people handle it.

 

[jebinc]

There is no need to be rude or snarky on a thread I started. This is a place for people to come and discuss this new technology and how a new steering yoke will play into it. I want to hear thoughts and ideas about it. Not sarcasm. I paid for FSD like everyone else did and it is completely human to wonder how this will work together.

@brunla Wasn't trying to be overly snarky, but you do have a choice. As I have posted a few times over the last couple of weeks, I too almost withdrew from the program - too frustrating, especially when you're driving a Plaid like a granny. The only way Tesla will know how the yoke performs, is to have willing beta testers with yokes. If you don't want to be one, because of your concerns, you can opt out at any time. Thanks for the downvote.

 

[impastu]

There is no need to be rude or snarky on a thread I started. This is a place for people to come and discuss this new technology and how a new steering yoke will play into it. I want to hear thoughts and ideas about it. Not sarcasm. I paid for FSD like everyone else did and it is completely human to wonder how this will work together.

I for one didn't read @jebinc response as rude or snarky...tricky to read emotion into online posts. However, his response was to a post of yours that simply made an observation and didn't ask a question or pose a challenge. You simply shared anticipated anxiety about the yoke. I an intrigued by the differences and reserve judgement for when I get it. I'm sure we'll adjust and embrace.

 

[jebinc]

I for one didn't read @jebinc response as rude or snarky...tricky to read emotion into online posts. However, his response was to a post of yours that simply made an observation and didn't ask a question or pose a challenge. You simply shared anticipated anxiety about the yoke. I an intrigued by the differences and reserve judgement for when I get it. I'm sure we'll adjust and embrace.

@impastu Agreed, internet chat lacks all the dimensions for effective communication to occur 100% of the time. I replied to @brunla above.

 

[impastu]

@impastu Agreed, internet chat lacks all the dimensions for effective communication. I replied to @brunla above.

All that being said, Wilson is slinging it tonight! Maybe he's a Rams fan and getting cranky. I'm a fan of the cleaner birds, the Eagles.