New Member - charging question

[FloridaSun]

Hi, I recently ordered my Model Y Long Range and have an estimated delivery date between May 4 and 23.. Quite the date range... I'm new to Tesla (even tough I have tons of Tesla owning friends and co-workers) but not new to EV's.. We own 2 EV's right now, 2019 Hyundai Kona Electric and wife has a BMW i3..
My question is regarding Chademo charging of Tesla, specifically the Model Y. I already ordered the Chademo Adapter as I have tons of free CCS/Chademo chargers in my area and I want to take advantage of those. I read in older posts on several forums that Tesla batteries (what I read was mostly about Model S) degrade more with Chademo than they do with Supercharging as the BMS does not handle Chademo charging as well as Supercharging.. Not sure if this is true or if this would apply to the newer Tesla models also?? I have 50k miles on my Hyundai Kona Electric and have charged CCS on free 50kw chargers over 150 times with not noticeable degradation.. I wonder if there is any truth to those claims that Chademo charging will degrade the battery faster than Supercharging?? Has anyone heard about anything like that?? How bad would it really be if I charge on a 50kw Chademo charger once a week??

 

[jsight]

I'd be curious to know why? I can't think of a reason that 300-400 volts at 125 amps (if not less) would be harder on the battery than the higher amperage supercharging.

It would be worse than regular ac charging, I guess, but I'd think even that effect would be marginal.

 

[Silicon Desert]

WELCOME...
I'd say it is probably more important to NOT charge the car to 100% and just let it sit there rather than be concerned about what you charge it with. Frankly I have never understood those claims (relative to supercharging) and when I asked Panasonic about that opinion in the past, he just rolls his eyes and keeps walking. Personally, I am not a battery engineer and my opinion is just a personal one. I'd like to see the data behind those degradation claims.

 

[jcanoe]

When driving to a Supercharger, if you set the Supercharger location as your destination in the Tesla Navigation system the Tesla's battery management system will pre-warm the battery pack for the most efficient, fastest Supercharger session. I don't believe the Tesla vehicle will pre-warm the battery for other than a Tesla Supercharging session.

The CHAdeMO charging session will take longer than a Supercharger session due to the 50kW maximum charging rate for the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter and not being able to pre-warm the battery pack. Maintain the Tesla battery between 20% and no more than 90% state of charge (SOC) for daily use. Expect the charging rate (kW) to noticeably taper above 80% SOC so that would be the optimal SOC to end the charging session.

 

[FloridaSun]

I'd be curious to know why? I can't think of a reason that 300-400 volts at 125 amps (if not less) would be harder on the battery than the higher amperage supercharging.

It would be worse than regular ac charging, I guess, but I'd think even that effect would be marginal.

Thanks! This is what I'm thinking as well.. This was an older post regarding a Model S.. I don't think that 50kw charging should be an issue.. I don't even think that pre-heating is needed for 50kw charging..

 

[FloridaSun]

I'd be curious to know why? I can't think of a reason that 300-400 volts at 125 amps (if not less) would be harder on the battery than the higher amperage supercharging.

It would be worse than regular ac charging, I guess, but I'd think even that effect would be marginal.

Thanks! That's what I'm thinking as well.. Wondering if the Model Y BMS pre-heats the battery for Chademo 50kw charging.. Doesn't seem needed considering the slow speed..

 

[FloridaSun]

When driving to a Supercharger, if you set the Supercharger location as your destination in the Tesla Navigation system the Tesla's battery management system will pre-warm the battery pack for the most efficient, fastest Supercharger session. I don't believe the Tesla vehicle will pre-warm the battery for other than a Tesla Supercharging session.

The CHAdeMO charging session will take longer than a Supercharger session due to the 50kW maximum charging rate for the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter and not being able to pre-warm the battery pack. Maintain the Tesla battery between 20% and no more than 90% state of charge (SOC) for daily use. Expect the charging rate (kW) to noticeably taper above 80% SOC so that would be the optimal SOC to end the charging session.

Planning on keeping charge between 50 - 80% except for the first leg of road trips.. I charged my Kona Electric to 100% only 10 times in 50k miles.. and only discharged below 10% 3 times..

 

[FloridaSun]

WELCOME...
I'd say it is probably more important to NOT charge the car to 100% and just let it sit there rather than be concerned about what you charge it with. Frankly I have never understood those claims (relative to supercharging) and when I asked Panasonic about that opinion in the past, he just rolls his eyes and keeps walking. Personally, I am not a battery engineer and my opinion is just a personal one. I'd like to see the data behind those degradation claims.

Thanks!

 

[jsight]

Thanks! That's what I'm thinking as well.. Wondering if the Model Y BMS pre-heats the battery for Chademo 50kw charging.. Doesn't seem needed considering the slow speed..

Unless it close to a supercharger and you trick the car into thinking that it is navigating to the supercharger, I don't think it will precondition. I agree that it is not likely to be necessary too, especially in FL.

 

[FloridaSun]

Unless it close to a supercharger and you trick the car into thinking that it is navigating to the supercharger, I don't think it will precondition. I agree that it is not likely to be necessary too, especially in FL.

My Kona Electric doesn't even have a battery heater.. On faster chargers, the speed is limited to about 45kw until the battery heats up to 77F on the Kona.. This has only happened once to me.. It's not very common here to see the battery temperature below high 60's.. I understand that Teslas charge quite different and need more heat due to the lower Cobalt content of their batteries.. My Kona's battery is high Cobalt, 622. Not sure how much Cobalt current Tesla batteries have but my understanding is that Tesla tries to go away from Cobalt in the future.. BTW, I hope that my Y will have the 82kwh pack and not the 75kwh.. Will see..

 

[NCC81701]

I read in older posts on several forums that Tesla batteries (what I read was mostly about Model S) degrade more with Chademo than they do with Supercharging as the BMS does not handle Chademo charging as well as Supercharging.. Not sure if this is true or if this would apply to the newer Tesla models also?? I have 50k miles on my Hyundai Kona Electric and have charged CCS on free 50kw chargers over 150 times with not noticeable degradation.. I wonder if there is any truth to those claims that Chademo charging will degrade the battery faster than Supercharging?? Has anyone heard about anything like that?? How bad would it really be if I charge on a 50kw Chademo charger once a week??

I'd be curious to know why? I can't think of a reason that 300-400 volts at 125 amps (if not less) would be harder on the battery than the higher amperage supercharging.

It would be worse than regular ac charging, I guess, but I'd think even that effect would be marginal.

I think the BMS lumps CHADEMO and Supercharging into a single "DC Fast charge" category. If you DC-fast charge enough, the BMS will lock into a permanent reduce DC fast charging speed to preserve the life of the battery.

Electric Vehicle News and Analysis | InsideEVs

Read the latest EV news from the U.S. and around the globe including new model reveals, business news, industry insights, latest technology, and more.

insideevs.com

If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

Hi everyone. I just got off the phone with Tesla with some disturbing news. My car has approximately 30,000 miles on it. I regularly use CHADeMo to charge my car, with the occasional Supercharger charge on road trips. On my last road trip, I noticed that my supercharging rate was significantly...

teslamotorsclub.com

Edit: This was from 2017 so I don't know if there has been any updates to BMS or how it keeps track of fast charging and when permanent degradation will kick in. I know from doing R/C that the charging amperage is more important than how many times you charge faster than 1C... in fact CHADEMO at 50kW is more like 0.6C so it should be fine.

 

[FloridaSun]

I think the BMS lumps CHADEMO and Supercharging into a single "DC Fast charge" category. If you DC-fast charge enough, the BMS will lock into a permanent reduce DC fast charging speed to preserve the life of the battery.

Electric Vehicle News and Analysis | InsideEVs

Read the latest EV news from the U.S. and around the globe including new model reveals, business news, industry insights, latest technology, and more.

insideevs.com

If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

Hi everyone. I just got off the phone with Tesla with some disturbing news. My car has approximately 30,000 miles on it. I regularly use CHADeMo to charge my car, with the occasional Supercharger charge on road trips. On my last road trip, I noticed that my supercharging rate was significantly...

teslamotorsclub.com

Edit: This was from 2017 so I don't know if there has been any updates to BMS or how it keeps track of fast charging and when permanent degradation will kick in. I know from doing R/C that the charging amperage is more important than how many times you charge faster than 1C... in fact CHADEMO at 50kW is more like 0.6C so it should be fine.

Hope that there were updates.. Wouldn't want my charge rate being reduced for that reason.. If my Kona Electric battery didn't degrade from fast charging, neither should a Tesla battery, especially not from slow fast charging.. I would think that Tesla has a way of clearing that out of the BMS to allow full speed again..

 

[Rocky_H]

I read in older posts on several forums that Tesla batteries (what I read was mostly about Model S) degrade more with Chademo than they do with Supercharging as the BMS does not handle Chademo charging as well as Supercharging.. Not sure if this is true or if this would apply to the newer Tesla models also??

Wow. I've been reading two different Tesla forums for about 8 years, and I have never heard such a claim. It is absolutely ludicrous and false!

 

[frankvb]

When charging on Chademo the initial charging rate will be around 42 kW as the extra 8 kW is used to warm up the battery (unless ambient is high of course). After 10 minutes or so that is done and it will put all 50 kW into the battery. I had free charging for a while and used it weekly, it's not that fast unfortunately.

 

[FloridaSun]

When charging on Chademo the initial charging rate will be around 42 kW as the extra 8 kW is used to warm up the battery (unless ambient is high of course). After 10 minutes or so that is done and it will put all 50 kW into the battery. I had free charging for a while and used it weekly, it's not that fast unfortunately.

Chademo is slow but you can't beat free.. I usually charge on CCS (with my current Kona Electric) while at lunch and when I get back, the car is done charging.. Want to use the same charger's Chademo port when I get the Model Y.

 

[house9]

Planning on keeping charge between 50 - 80% except for the first leg of road trips..

Periodically charge to 90+% and then let the car go into 'deep sleep' for 3+ hours, this lets the computer get better estimates of your batteries full capacity.

This is an interesting read:
- How I Recovered Half of my Battery's Lost Capacity