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New vs Used value - From a buyers point of view

Navyguy

Dreamer
Nov 1, 2015
96
0
OH
Looking at a Pre Owned Model S from their site, I can see what seems a fully loaded Model S P90DL which costs 132,500 after EV Inc. and 140K cash price. with 1,228 miles

Well a new one costs (maxed out) 141,500 Cash and 124 After EV. (127 if I keep the rear facing seats as on the used) tell me in what freaking world that makes sense?


ANY used vehicle should at least have lost 20% of its value,. these cars MAYBE 10% AT LEAST. The fact you get to choose what you want. color etc. and its brand spankn' new you may as well go new. would be nice to be able to get one a little cheaper used.

NOPE:

Model S P90D 102535 | Tesla Motors



On a side note.

This is why i am kind of against an auto manufacturer who has zero competition to be allowed to also sell their own cars unlike most other manufacturers having to use independent dealers.

Private party MAYBE you can do slightly better but you lose so much in piece of mind. and they do that on purpose and inflate the resale value, when really NO car holds its value like that. not in reality. artificially yes. I will tell you this their stock will be crap though when Faraday and the others come out. the boom 2 years ago was the blast from min 30s to 200 but its maxed out I think.




Still want one tho haaha
 

brantse

Supporting Member
May 18, 2015
505
1,316
Somerset, PA
I completely agree with you, but honestly, I don't think Tesla is really trying to sell many of these cars. Most likely, this is either a showroom demo/test drive car/loaner and they really don't plan on anyone buying it. I guess they figure everything has a price and if someone impulsively wants it...here's that price.
 

tstafford

Active Member
Jul 4, 2015
1,039
245
Nashville, TN
I guess they think they might get someone who has to have the car RIGHT NOW. Silly for sure. But a fool and his money are soon parted, there's a sucker born every day, etc.
 

Navyguy

Dreamer
Nov 1, 2015
96
0
OH
That's what I mean by artificially inflating the resale value. like something LISTED on ebay doesn't mean its WORTH something, its only worth what people actually pay. If I list my old computer as vintage and charge 500000 dollars for it, still worth **** when no one buys it. when it finally sells for 10 dollars it was worth 10 dollars lol.

Wish I could find an AP enabled P90DL used, or at least a Psomething D with AP

- - - Updated - - -

I guess they think they might get someone who has to have the car RIGHT NOW. Silly for sure. But a fool and his money are soon parted, there's a sucker born every day, etc.


Pretty much everyone on this forum, me included really in 2 years the battery will have nearly doubled and the AP will be 10x better and the charging speed probably 50% faster. in 5 years time Faraday Future will be the competitor which competition is what drives innovation and then that is when we all will regret buying now. Just like all the suckers who buy Iphones 6 months later the new S model comes out. then a year later the new regular then 6 mos a S again
 

brantse

Supporting Member
May 18, 2015
505
1,316
Somerset, PA
That's what I mean by artificially inflating the resale value. like something LISTED on ebay doesn't mean its WORTH something, its only worth what people actually pay. If I list my old computer as vintage and charge 500000 dollars for it, still worth **** when no one buys it. when it finally sells for 10 dollars it was worth 10 dollars lol.

Wish I could find an AP enabled P90DL used, or at least a Psomething D with AP

Supply and demand. Watch the CPO inventory for a while and you will see that there's demand there. Keep in mind that Tesla is using those vehicles, and therefore I think they're intentionally holding some prices up to manage it.
 

Zythryn

Model Y custom Warming Stripes wrap.
Mar 18, 2009
2,169
1,189
Minnesota
Looking at a Pre Owned Model S from their site, I can see what seems a fully loaded Model S P90DL which costs 132,500 after EV Inc. and 140K cash price. with 1,228 miles

Well a new one costs (maxed out) 141,500 Cash and 124 After EV. (127 if I keep the rear facing seats as on the used) tell me in what freaking world that makes sense?...

This is why i am kind of against an auto manufacturer who has zero competition ....

For your first point, that car with those specs, ordered new would be $145,700 (with destination fees).
From the looks of it, and it's very recent VIN, I would say this is a loaner, not preowned.
With only about 1,000 miles on it, it is basically new, yet you get $7,000 off.

Tesla has plenty of competition. Porsche, BMW, Aston Martin, Mercedes, etc.
I may not always buy a Tesla (although I expect to), but I will always buy electric, and I won't ever buy through an auto dealer, too many crooks.
 

Navyguy

Dreamer
Nov 1, 2015
96
0
OH
For your first point, that car with those specs, ordered new would be $145,700 (with destination fees).
From the looks of it, and it's very recent VIN, I would say this is a loaner, not preowned.
With only about 1,000 miles on it, it is basically new, yet you get $7,000 off.

Tesla has plenty of competition. Porsche, BMW, Aston Martin, Mercedes, etc.
I may not always buy a Tesla (although I expect to), but I will always buy electric, and I won't ever buy through an auto dealer, too many crooks.


Oh the common misconception about crooked dealers. You must be 60 years old. A old used car place yeah maybe a bit. laws now days are a bit more harsh. that said a named one like a new car dealer margin is usually not very good. especially in this day and age of being able to see others prices and such once someone gets it for 1K over invoice so does everyone else, that sales guy may need to sell 30 cars that month to make 7,500 that month


Also they are only as crooked as you let them, if you fail to do your own due diligence then you end up getting screwed. if you take a used car at a low end dealer without having it checked out. well how many times you seen judge Judy say You're an idiot haha (not you in particular)
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,321
7,401
Maine
Oh the common misconception about crooked dealers. You must be 60 years old. A old used car place yeah maybe a bit. laws now days are a bit more harsh. that said a named one like a new car dealer margin is usually not very good. especially in this day and age of being able to see others prices and such once someone gets it for 1K over invoice so does everyone else, that sales guy may need to sell 30 cars that month to make 7,500 that month

Crooked is "dishonest or illegal". It's the dishonesty he's complaining about.

But to be fair, anyone who's asked questions of salespeople in other businesses don't trust them either.
 

Navyguy

Dreamer
Nov 1, 2015
96
0
OH
Crooked is "dishonest or illegal". It's the dishonesty he's complaining about.

But to be fair, anyone who's asked questions of salespeople in other businesses don't trust them either.


Illegal then you have nothing to worry about, any court would issue you repayment. I work in sales (not car sales) but B2B lying don't get you far.
 

Max*

Charging
Apr 8, 2015
6,670
3,719
NoVa
Looking at a Pre Owned Model S from their site, I can see what seems a fully loaded Model S P90DL which costs 132,500 after EV Inc. and 140K cash price. with 1,228 miles

Well a new one costs (maxed out) 141,500 Cash and 124 After EV. (127 if I keep the rear facing seats as on the used) tell me in what freaking world that makes sense?

In a world where math rules! (140k cash price - 7.5k EV incentive = 132.5k. You got this correct. 141.5k cash price maxed out - 7.5kEV incentive = 134k, not 124k. You're $10k off here).

So you're saving $1.5k, and it's not a used car. It's technically a new car. A used car doesn't qualify for the EV incentive.

So you get a new car, right now, fully loaded, for $1.5k less due to 1,228 miles. Which follows Tesla's formula, for $1/mile and 1%/month (or something like that?).

Seems legit.



Now if you're complaining that the true CPO prices are too high, I can agree with that. But this particular example is not one of them.
 

Navyguy

Dreamer
Nov 1, 2015
96
0
OH
In a world where math rules! (140k cash price - 7.5k EV incentive = 132.5k. You got this correct. 141.5k cash price maxed out - 7.5kEV incentive = 134k, not 124k. You're $10k off here).

So you're saving $1.5k, and it's not a used car. It's technically a new car. A used car doesn't qualify for the EV incentive.

So you get a new car, right now, fully loaded, for $1.5k less due to 1,228 miles. Which follows Tesla's formula, for $1/mile and 1%/month (or something like that?).

Seems legit.



Now if you're complaining that the true CPO prices are too high, I can agree with that. But this particular example is not one of them.


But yes it was mostly a generalization. just saying mostly the CASH price that you end up financing is pretty much the same and after 140K whats 1K. But they use estimated gas savings on a new valuation when you build your car. which you could theoretically apply to any car purchase that you are or not using gas or less / more gas.
 
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Max*

Charging
Apr 8, 2015
6,670
3,719
NoVa
But yes it was mostly a generalization. just saying mostly the CASH price that you end up financing is pretty much the same and after 140K whats 1K. But they use estimated gas savings on a new valuation when you build your car. which you could theoretically apply to any car purchase that you are or not using gas or less / more gas.

Well I just pointed out it's an inventory car, it's still considered new, and for some people the choice to save $1.5k and get the car right away outweighs the choice to get the exact same car configured but have to wait 2 months.

Tesla isn't selling a used car for $10k more than a new car sells for, that was my point. I never mentioned gas savings ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

JRP3

Hyperactive Member
Aug 20, 2007
19,608
43,319
Central New York
Pretty much everyone on this forum, me included really in 2 years the battery will have nearly doubled and the AP will be 10x better and the charging speed probably 50% faster. in 5 years time Faraday Future will be the competitor which competition is what drives innovation and then that is when we all will regret buying now. Just like all the suckers who buy Iphones 6 months later the new S model comes out. then a year later the new regular then 6 mos a S again

Many people will change their vehicles in a 5 year time period anyway, so it's not really the same thing as buying an iPhone and then seeing a better one 6 months later. There is always going to be a better product coming at some point in time. Plus I wouldn't wait on a car from a basically unknown car builder who has no example of what they may or may not offer 5 years from now, and I certainly wouldn't assume whatever they may offer will necessarily be better than what Tesla will be offering at that time.
 

Zythryn

Model Y custom Warming Stripes wrap.
Mar 18, 2009
2,169
1,189
Minnesota
Yeah, I don't like the fuel savings either. Many people don't.
How much less you will spend on fuel is an important consideration, as is safety.
But those don't really belong on the price page (safety isn't).

It is too variable of a cost. Someone driving a similar soured up car may save $6000/year, or may save $60/year.
In my case, I would save almost nothing as my car is already electric.
 

Navyguy

Dreamer
Nov 1, 2015
96
0
OH
You lost me. You had a math error in your OP, I correct it, and pointed out that the price difference between that inventory (almost new) and an ordered (completely new) car is $1,500 in your favor. Not ~$10k, in Tesla's favor, as you pointed out in the OP.



Well I just pointed out it's an inventory car, it's still considered new, and for some people the choice to save $1.5k and get the car right away outweighs the choice to get the exact same car configured but have to wait 2 months.

Tesla isn't selling a used car for $10k more than a new car sells for, that was my point. I never mentioned gas savings ;)


well it IS in the preowned section just saying. I also said I took off the rear facing seats, and the price when ordering new defaults to about 10K in gas savings,
 

Max*

Charging
Apr 8, 2015
6,670
3,719
NoVa
well it IS in the preowned section just saying.

Yes, Tesla recently started putting inventory/demo/etc. cars into the pre-owned section. For all intents and purposes, it still counts as a new car. Now, you can argue that a car with 1,200 should have a bigger discount, and that's your prerogative, but from a federal tax credit it's still "new".

I also said I took off the rear facing seats, and the price when ordering new defaults to about 10K in gas savings,

The [misleading] gas savings would be had for both cars, correct?

So it's a silly argument saying that an inventory car costs $132.5k after EV savings compared to a new car at "$124k" after EV savings and gas savings and removal of RFS. It's apples and oranges.

If you included the gas savings, you still have a math error: 141,500k Cash - $7,500EV - $10k gas = $124k If you remove the RFS it becomes $121k, not $124k vs. 127k.
 

Vitold

Active Member
Aug 10, 2015
1,688
1,785
NM
When you buy Tesla you're not only buying a car, you are buying an electric car. ICE rules do not apply here for multitude of reasons.
 

ecarfan

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2013
19,198
13,848
San Mateo, CA
Pretty much everyone on this forum, me included really in 2 years the battery will have nearly doubled and the AP will be 10x better and the charging speed probably 50% faster. in 5 years time Faraday Future will be the competitor which competition is what drives innovation and then that is when we all will regret buying now. Just like all the suckers who buy Iphones 6 months later the new S model comes out. then a year later the new regular then 6 mos a S again
You seem to be quite agitated over Tesla using its long-established standard of depreciating their demo vehicle inventory (which are new cars that are owned by Tesla) based on mileage. The example you quote in your OP is exactly what Tesla has been doing for years now, and they sell them pretty fast. Supply and demand. It works.
And battery capacities do not "nearly double" in two years. It takes more than a decade to achieve that degree of improvement.
 

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