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Next Gen Smart Meters To Be Able To Switch Off Home Chargers
- Thread starter Masklin
- Start date
Rustybkts
Member
SMETS meters have the ability now. They all have contactors built in.
I suppose this ability is a major reason to install them as they will never save energy. A simple energy monitor clipped to the incoming cable would have achieved the same result.
A poorly researched report. Surely by connecting the latest EVSE's to the internet allows car charging to be controlled so that they don't all switch on at the same time with pricing adjusted accordingly.
I suppose this ability is a major reason to install them as they will never save energy. A simple energy monitor clipped to the incoming cable would have achieved the same result.
A poorly researched report. Surely by connecting the latest EVSE's to the internet allows car charging to be controlled so that they don't all switch on at the same time with pricing adjusted accordingly.
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Jason71
Well-Known Member
They might be able to cut all the power completely but we are talking about targeting specific circuits so that is different.
Rustybkts
Member
This is laughable!
They haven't even finished installing SMETS 2 meters after the abortive install of millions of useless SMETS 1 that are as useful as a chocolate fire guard and now are proposing to replace them with meters that have an additional contactor inside.
Guess who pays for it.
They haven't even finished installing SMETS 2 meters after the abortive install of millions of useless SMETS 1 that are as useful as a chocolate fire guard and now are proposing to replace them with meters that have an additional contactor inside.
Guess who pays for it.
Rustybkts
Member
Just imagine the extra work involved splitting the house wiring to two consumer units.
Will be interesting to see how they would ensure that power is re-enabled safely.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
Dynamic load management was always part of the smart meter plan, perhaps the most important part of it. If you look back into the early work, where all the reasons for needing to put in smart metering are laid out. the key driver behind it all was tackling the problem of grid instability, created by having less heavy spinning reserve and much more very low inertia renewable generation.
The conclusion was that smart metering would allow the same sort of phased load shedding that the DNOs use with commercial customers. If there was a serious frequency dip (as happened a year or so ago when Hornsea went down, with a local cascade failure) instead of the DNOs only being able to manage it by switching off low priority commercial loads, smart meters would also allow control of smart loads in the domestic sector. This is also the reason that the OLEV grant only applies to smart charge points, it's to maintain the policy of the DNOs being able to use smart meters to shed smart loads in homes. There are already lots of smaller smart appliances, and the next stage will be to include smart control in heavier loads, like water heaters, so that smart metering is able to shed those loads if it needs to.
The conclusion was that smart metering would allow the same sort of phased load shedding that the DNOs use with commercial customers. If there was a serious frequency dip (as happened a year or so ago when Hornsea went down, with a local cascade failure) instead of the DNOs only being able to manage it by switching off low priority commercial loads, smart meters would also allow control of smart loads in the domestic sector. This is also the reason that the OLEV grant only applies to smart charge points, it's to maintain the policy of the DNOs being able to use smart meters to shed smart loads in homes. There are already lots of smaller smart appliances, and the next stage will be to include smart control in heavier loads, like water heaters, so that smart metering is able to shed those loads if it needs to.
MrBadger
Badger out
Demand side response was always the agenda for smart meters (and charge points) right from the outset. As that would be unpalatable for many (most?), they sold smart meters on the potential savings from the energy monitoring display and smart charge points with the discount from the OLEV grant.
Where I use to work, we were involved in various trials on behalf of the DNOs to test users experiences of smart meters. As part of the trials, charge power would have been curtailed at various times to gauge user reaction to various patterns. This is now possible with current smart kit. Its not a function of the meter though, its all done in the 'smart' charge point so does not require a smart meter.
My wife was meant to be on one of the trials, but vehicle usage limitations, delays and charge point installation issues (required a whole house isolation switch to be fitted which could not be done unless we were having a new meter fitted) meant that it wasn't worth the inconvenience.
Where I use to work, we were involved in various trials on behalf of the DNOs to test users experiences of smart meters. As part of the trials, charge power would have been curtailed at various times to gauge user reaction to various patterns. This is now possible with current smart kit. Its not a function of the meter though, its all done in the 'smart' charge point so does not require a smart meter.
My wife was meant to be on one of the trials, but vehicle usage limitations, delays and charge point installation issues (required a whole house isolation switch to be fitted which could not be done unless we were having a new meter fitted) meant that it wasn't worth the inconvenience.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
I have a feeling that the original plan, which was to use smart metering as a way of LV grid load shedding for stability reasons, may well have been overtaken by events, anyway. Back when the scheme was dreamt up, the major concern was that the grid was going to lose reactive power generation (high inertia generators) as zero reactive power renewables and HVDC interconnects became an increasing part of the supply mix. The only realistic option back then was to use load shedding, as pumped storage (like Dinorwic) takes seconds to come on line if there's a frequency dip, so the frequency could drop to the point where there was a HV grid cascade failure before Dinorwic (and a few smaller plants) had spun up.
What's happened since is that distributed storage has become not only economically viable, but it actually enhances the profitability of solar and wind generating plant, as locally generated electricity can be stored during the periods when prices fall to the zero profit region for some generators, and then sold back to the grid when the wholesale price rises above the profit threshold. Many (most?) new solar and wind farms are now including battery storage, and it's even proving economical to retro-fit existing solar and wind plants with batteries. If domestic battery storage prices continue to fall, they will soon reach the point where they make economic sense to install, too. Right now, the cost/benefit for domestic battery storage makes it something that only those who are prepared to pay more in order to reduce emissions might fit, but last time I looked in-depth at the cost versus whole life saving it was only about 10% above the break even point, so close.
Distributed battery storage could really be a game changer in terms of grid frequency stability, as it's now possible to make such systems appear to be reactive power generators, exactly what the grid needs. Rather unsurprisingly, it's been Elon Musk pretty much at the forefront of the big systems, like the very successful Tesla Hornsdale Power Reserve in South Australia, which has already saved more money than the system cost to install, apparently, and has prompted other power companies to install similar systems.
If distributed battery storage can replace the role of spinning reserve then the need for smart metering to aid load shedding pretty much goes away. An incidental impact will be a very big reduction in peak to trough pricing, so the swings seen in half hourly retail prices, from minus a few pence per kWh to over 35 pence per kWh, will be significantly reduced. The reduction in price swing could be around 90% or more, based on the experience from South Australia. That would reduce peak rates down to maybe 12p to 13p/kWh, with off-peak rates increasing to around 11p to 12p/kWh. If this happens, then tariffs could simplify to just a single, lower, rate, with no need to faff around with switching domestic loads on and off at odd times.
What's happened since is that distributed storage has become not only economically viable, but it actually enhances the profitability of solar and wind generating plant, as locally generated electricity can be stored during the periods when prices fall to the zero profit region for some generators, and then sold back to the grid when the wholesale price rises above the profit threshold. Many (most?) new solar and wind farms are now including battery storage, and it's even proving economical to retro-fit existing solar and wind plants with batteries. If domestic battery storage prices continue to fall, they will soon reach the point where they make economic sense to install, too. Right now, the cost/benefit for domestic battery storage makes it something that only those who are prepared to pay more in order to reduce emissions might fit, but last time I looked in-depth at the cost versus whole life saving it was only about 10% above the break even point, so close.
Distributed battery storage could really be a game changer in terms of grid frequency stability, as it's now possible to make such systems appear to be reactive power generators, exactly what the grid needs. Rather unsurprisingly, it's been Elon Musk pretty much at the forefront of the big systems, like the very successful Tesla Hornsdale Power Reserve in South Australia, which has already saved more money than the system cost to install, apparently, and has prompted other power companies to install similar systems.
If distributed battery storage can replace the role of spinning reserve then the need for smart metering to aid load shedding pretty much goes away. An incidental impact will be a very big reduction in peak to trough pricing, so the swings seen in half hourly retail prices, from minus a few pence per kWh to over 35 pence per kWh, will be significantly reduced. The reduction in price swing could be around 90% or more, based on the experience from South Australia. That would reduce peak rates down to maybe 12p to 13p/kWh, with off-peak rates increasing to around 11p to 12p/kWh. If this happens, then tariffs could simplify to just a single, lower, rate, with no need to faff around with switching domestic loads on and off at odd times.
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