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No AWD for Model 3 until next year confirmed

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Most race cars are RWD. All else being equal, an AWD car will not out corner a RWD car.
Most race cars are RWD due to complexity, weight, and the small fact that AWD is banned most of the time depending on the car/race type. Unlike normal cars race cars have a lot of downforce which aids in cornering. I'd be interested to see which corners faster a RWD Tesla or an AWD. You'd think the AWD can naturally pull out of the corner faster without oversteer.
 
Most race cars are RWD due to complexity, weight, and the small fact that AWD is banned most of the time depending on the car/race type. Unlike normal cars race cars have a lot of downforce which aids in cornering. I'd be interested to see which corners faster a RWD Tesla or an AWD. You'd think the AWD can naturally pull out of the corner faster without oversteer.
I can see how ICE is more complex because there is only 1 power source/engine. EVs have to be tremendously less complex as the rear and front drive trains are separate - but pull together.
 
Is there a rule about it in professional racing? Is rear wheel drive a mandate/rule in racing? For goodness sake.....there is a rule about the angle of the rear spoiler to the smallest degree.

So is the lack of AWD in racing a choice or a requirement?
For Formula One it's a requirement:
9.1 Transmission types :
No transmission system may permit more than two wheels to be driven.
 
Does that additional regen exist? I really do not feel more regen braking in my 85D than in my previous 85 RWD.

Good info, thanks. I wonder if the relative size of the motors could play into it, though? An S 85 would have had the large Tesla rear motor, while an S 85D would have had the small front and the small rear motor. So a smaller difference in "how much motor". :)

My X P100D has the small front motor and large rear motor, while S P85 had the large rear motor only, so that comparison has "more motor" in the AWD compared to the RWD.

I wonder what motor will Model 3 RWD feature back there, compared to AWD models.

Anyway, the difference in re-gen was not something I read about on my X P100D. I knew absolutely nothing about this topic beforehand I just noticed it immediately after taking delivery of my new car. It is very obvious.

I can not dismiss other changes between mid-2014 and early-2017 Tesla builds either, of course. Just reporting what I've experienced. And as said, the larger battery (100 kWh vs. 85) and heavier car (Model X vs. S) certainly could add to my experience as well.
 
FWIW, I have noticed substantially more regen in my X P100D compared to my S P85D. I didn't know about it either until I experienced it. Don't know how much the heavier car/bigger battery could play into it, if anything, but the difference is significant. Makes single-pedal driving even more fun.

As for the RWD vs. AWD, I agree RWD Teslas (at least the Model S P85 I have experience of) behave well for RWD cars. They have good traction for RWD cars and are fun to drive. You can certaily wag the tail when necessary. The tendency to oversteer is there, though rather surprisingly the are not completely void of understeer because in my experience the rear is so grippy and powerful that sometimes it can push the front wheels if front loses grip before rear. I had it happen a few times and it was rather surprising. Not really an issue, but did happen a few times.

That said, I'd go AWD every time I had the choice. For me the traction from 0 onwards is far more important than any rare cornering fun. Losing grip on launches is such a buzzkill. Preferences vary.
Fantastic information: Thanks. AWD for me all the way.

Thanks! And yes, given your preferences I would indeed recommend that for you.

One more comment on the RWD vs. AWD and winters (for areas where you have them):

I had the P85 for the better part of three winters and it turned out better than I thought for winter use. I noticed it on the very first winter's day when snow was covering the ground. The smooth power delivery and low, even weight distribution of a Tesla is really something that grips and let's you control the potential for slippage with minute precision.

After all, the trick in snow, especially if there is ice underneath, is to never let that wheel spin for the first time. As long as the tire doesn't slip and spin around, you are playing on whatever little resistance the slippery ground still offers. But when the tire loses that grip, spins wildly around a time or a few, any grip that may have been available beforehand is usually destroyed. Basically the spinning tire becomes a giant sanding machine that smoothes out the ground underneath.

And this behavior on snow and ice is something a well implemented BEV is inherently better at controlling than an ICE (ironically given its abbrevation), which is revving up and turning a series of explosions into torque to turn the wheel - usually at a much more uneven rate. And because of the weighty battery and rear-axle motor, a Tesla also has quite a bit of weight on the rear wheels, so that usual ICE concern (where much of the traction-adding weight is in front) is taken care of as well.

That said, an RWD Tesla is not immune to all the issues regarding rear wheels and winter driving. First of all, compared to an FWD (front wheel drive) or AWD, RWD has the problem that there is no turning the driving wheels to seek traction when stuck. The only "wiggling" you can do with an RWD is try and move it forwards and backwards and see if that helps you find some traction. On an FWD (front wheel drive) you have the additional option of turning the driving wheels in search of traction.

Second, the reality still is, RWD gets less traction than AWD in all situations. Anyone who has driven powerful RWD and AWD cars knows this of course and a BEV is no different, though arguably an RWD BEV is better than an RWD ICE. Even on perfectly dry tarmac, the P85 could slip where the P100D would not (let alone in rain or snow) and the latter has even more power. And I did get stuck in snow on the P85 in a few rare instances where on AWD I never would have (most of my previous cars were AWD). This means that with the P85 I did not have the confidence to drive into some situations I otherwise would not have thought twice about doing.

I enjoyed my time with an early Model S, with all the limitations and experiences it brought on so many levels, but I am happy to be again in something more "complete". AWD is an integral part of that feeling. I know some people like RWD, so I am happy to see Tesla offer the option for them, but it is not my preference for everyday driving. No. (I have bought both front and rear wheel drive cars if they have other must have qualities, though, so this is not an absolute mandatory for me - but a big preference.)

Finally, regarding the driving dynamics. As said, an RWD has a tendency of losing grip sooner than an AWD and that goes for oversteer as well, obviously. You could oversteer the P85 pretty much any time you wanted to. The higher and heavier Model X is no comparison anyway, but while the oversteer potential is certainly less, given how much beefier motor it still has in the rear compared to the front I'm not too concerned about understeer either (and have so far experienced none). So mostly what one gives up on an AWD is the propensity to oversteer for a more stable, neutral driving experience - period. Instead of over or understeer, an AWD just, well, steers.

That said, give an AWD some really slippy conditions, lots of space and a lot of power, nothing beats a good four wheel slide in fun. :)

I am looking forward to the next winter more than the last, that's for sure. Let's get this stupid summer over and done with.
 
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Well now that's an advantage I didn't consider. 2 sources of regen. I wonder if anyone knows if the dual motor model S produces twice the regen of a single motor....or did Tesla software limit that?

Definitely not twice the regen, even in the RWD cars they capped the regen in software.

My guess is it is so that you get consistent braking across most of the SoC range / operating temperatures while still being in a happy place with the battery's charge taper profiles.

Maybe @AnxietyRanger s experience is that the 100 packs simply have a better charge profile, and Tesla have been able to tweak the regen up a little to reflect that?
 
Is there a rule about it in professional racing? Is rear wheel drive a mandate/rule in racing? For goodness sake.....there is a rule about the angle of the rear spoiler to the smallest degree.

So is the lack of AWD in racing a choice or a requirement?

It really depends on the racing series. A lot of the rules are intended to keep the competition more exciting for fans, making the cars closer, and more around the driver's skill than the amount of money the team have.

Personally I'm a huge fan of WRC, where AWD dominates the top classes. (They also have lower classes that are RWD or FWD)



As for AWD vs RWD. I'd chose AWD for my daily driver, but for my weekend summer car RWD all the way.

We've talked a lot about the objective differences, understeer / oversteer etc. but AWD can also bring around some more subjective issues which are hard to quantify. My experience is that AWD cars tend to lose steering feel compared to RWD versions of the same car, they feel planted, but you don't necessarily get the feedback through the wheel, and there's a certain throttle balance that can be lost if the cars are setup to favour FWD operation.

Saying that it's getting a little moot nowadays, cars are simply much faster than a decade ago, and finding somewhere to explore these nuanced RWD benefits without getting into trouble means going to a race track. Fortunately here there is a flourishing market for track days, so I get to go quite a bit :D
 
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Most race cars are RWD due to complexity, weight, and the small fact that AWD is banned most of the time depending on the car/race type. Unlike normal cars race cars have a lot of downforce which aids in cornering. I'd be interested to see which corners faster a RWD Tesla or an AWD. You'd think the AWD can naturally pull out of the corner faster without oversteer.

I have had some "fun head to head sessions" myself in my classic S60 a friend in an S90D. Exit of _very_ slow corners he was quicker, through flowing stuff there was little in it, if anything the lighter car had a slight advantage. As soon as we got to a straight section he was off into the distance due to much better acceleration, but then under braking I'd catch back up a little.

If it had been a PxxD car with the softer tyres and even more mid range I don't think I'd see where he went.

Saying all that I, to see these differences I was driving in a socially irresponsible way on public highways anyway, so the S60 is fast enough.
 
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Is there a rule about it in professional racing? Is rear wheel drive a mandate/rule in racing? For goodness sake.....there is a rule about the angle of the rear spoiler to the smallest degree.

So is the lack of AWD in racing a choice or a requirement?

In venues that permit both AWD and 2wd, probably only Rally Racing sees complete domination by AWD.
 
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Now the Model S can simulate other drivetrains right? If I buy a performance AWD model I wonder if I could simulate the RWD base model...?
Can you tell the difference between your current car with and without two additional passengers?

Without wanting to sound like the princess and the pea, the differences are pretty subtle, but weight is weight (and a pack size upgrade is similar to carrying more cargo/ passengers all the time). All the software in the world can't miraculously make it evaporate.
 
Can you tell the difference between your current car with and without two additional passengers?

Without wanting to sound like the princess and the pea, the differences are pretty subtle, but weight is weight (and a pack size upgrade is similar to carrying more cargo/ passengers all the time). All the software in the world can't miraculously make it evaporate.
I'm pretty sure people can feel the difference between AWD and RWD though you'd think...
 
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I'm pretty sure people can feel the difference between AWD and RWD though you'd think...
I don't know, mine and and my friend's broadly drive the same, at least on the sort of test drive routes you tend to get taken on.

The most notable difference is acceleration.

An extended weekend loan you'd pick up on it, but in that case I think Tesla would find a real car not a software simulated version.
 
AWD doesn't really give too much contol while moving. You can put more power down, without inducing wheel slip, but that's all. It won't help if you corner too quickly, which is the main cause for involuntary overstter, or understeer. And like you said, it doesn't help at all at breaking.

Snow tires will help in any condition, get you going, breaking and contol. And in the last two cases even more than AWD ever could.

But years of clever advertising have shaped the public opinion on AWD and snow.


Is this why there's non-brake based torque vectoring on some AWD systems like Acura's SH-AWD? For Tesla's AWD, there is no torque vectoring, correct?
 
FWIW, I have noticed substantially more regen in my X P100D compared to my S P85D. I didn't know about it either until I experienced it. Don't know how much the heavier car/bigger battery could play into it, if anything, but the difference is significant. Makes single-pedal driving even more fun.

As for the RWD vs. AWD, I agree RWD Teslas (at least the Model S P85 I have experience of) behave well for RWD cars. They have good traction for RWD cars and are fun to drive. You can certaily wag the tail when necessary. The tendency to oversteer is there, though rather surprisingly the are not completely void of understeer because in my experience the rear is so grippy and powerful that sometimes it can push the front wheels if front loses grip before rear. I had it happen a few times and it was rather surprising. Not really an issue, but did happen a few times.

That said, I'd go AWD every time I had the choice. For me the traction from 0 onwards is far more important than any rare cornering fun. Losing grip on launches is such a buzzkill. Preferences vary.

So AWD will always have better traction than RWD in any kind of road condition (rain, snow, ice, etc.) when equipped with the same winter/ summer tires? I wish Tesla's AWD had torque-vectoring but it chose to focus on AP.
 
The amount of regen is a function of the motor recapture/battery recharge efficiency and the kinetic energy of the moving vehicle. Heavier vehicles with larger batteries will have a greater potential for regen.

The intensity, on the other hand, may be able to be increased more successfully with dual motors. I am not sure that it would be terribly necessary, though, as I find regen on my RWD P85 to be sufficient for near stopping (i.e. one pedal driving) in almost all cases.
 
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