No higher-end trims first

[Tam]

We all hear what Elon said but marketwatch.com has a different interpretation and sided with many on the forums:

"Just don’t expect luxury trims right off

In a departure from the way Tesla did things with the Model S and Model X, the company won’t start off offering higher-end trims with the Model 3. It made sense to do so with the first two models, Musk said, since Tesla had to pay back the investment in all the factory retooling, but no so with the Model 3.
Tesla caught a lot of flak when the Model X fully loaded “signature” series started at $132,000 without any extras. Tesla later started offering cheaper versions."

 

[gregincal]

I just don't see how you can get that interpretation from the Elon's statement:

"And our default plan as we've done in the past is that the initial sales are relatively highly optioned versions of the car. Because obviously, we've got to pay back the investment of all the tooling and everything, so that sort of makes sense to have the higher optioned versions first. So, that's what we did with the Model S and also again with the Model X.

Although, it was sort of unfortunate that the way the Model X pricing got reported that they reported the sort of fully optioned signature series as though it was the base price volume number in some publications. So, this is just a misunderstanding of how things work. I mean, and I think it's also normal to do this in many other industries. Like, if Intel comes out with a new CPU or faster CPU, or NVIDIA comes out with a new graphics card, in the beginning, it's a lot more expensive and then over time the price drops."

Where in this statement does he give the slightest indication that they intend to do things differently. He seems to just be defending the practice of delivering the higher options first.

 

[Bimbels]

I just don't see how you can get that interpretation from the Elon's statement:

"And our default plan as we've done in the past is that the initial sales are relatively highly optioned versions of the car. Because obviously, we've got to pay back the investment of all the tooling and everything, so that sort of makes sense to have the higher optioned versions first. So, that's what we did with the Model S and also again with the Model X.

Although, it was sort of unfortunate that the way the Model X pricing got reported that they reported the sort of fully optioned signature series as though it was the base price volume number in some publications. So, this is just a misunderstanding of how things work. I mean, and I think it's also normal to do this in many other industries. Like, if Intel comes out with a new CPU or faster CPU, or NVIDIA comes out with a new graphics card, in the beginning, it's a lot more expensive and then over time the price drops."

Where in this statement does he give the slightest indication that they intend to do things differently. He seems to just be defending the practice of delivering the higher options first.

+1

While it might not be as tricked out as an X with it's complex engineering aspects, and while maybe not all features will be available in the beginning, I would expect enough features to boost the price enough to "pay back the investment" as Elon clearly stated.

 

[SensationAzn]

+1 Thanks for typing this up, I had to listen to this portion of the call multiple times after reading what others were interpreting to get it straight.

 

[YBT]

How you could misconstrue those words boggles the mind

... I think what he was actually saying there is Tesla is going to pop an ICE into the Model 3 due to overwhelming customer demand

 

[Red Sage]

Things cost money, and stuff. Walk into any BMW dealership and check the lot for an absolute, unadorned, base version of the 320i. Go ahead. I'll wait.

 

[Twiglett]

Things cost money, and stuff. Walk into any BMW dealership and check the lot for an absolute, unadorned, base version of the 320i. Go ahead. I'll wait.

I remember a Jalopnik article a year or two ago when they rejoiced that they found a 320i with manual gearbox. It wasn't stripped of course but it was enough of a hens teeth situation it made an article

 

[jonnyg]

I interpreted it as saying there wouldn't be a signature version of the Model 3. They would still would produce cars highly-optioned first, just not a separate trim that confuses the press about pricing.

 

[Red Sage]

I remember a Jalopnik article a year or two ago when they rejoiced that they found a 320i with manual gearbox. It wasn't stripped of course but it was enough of a hens teeth situation it made an article

Precisely.

I interpreted it as saying there wouldn't be a signature version of the Model 3. They would still would produce cars highly-optioned first, just not a separate trim that confuses the press about pricing.

I concur. This also gives credence, I think, to my personal belief that the base Tesla Model ≡ will not be a 180 HP weakling like the BMW 320i, or a 200 HP Bantamweight like the Chevrolet BOLT. I believe it will have no less than a 60 kWh battery pack, achieve in the neighborhood of 250 mile EPA rated range, and have 300+ HP, 300+ lb-ft Torque -- in its base configuration as a rear wheel drive car. That will be enough on its own to be the sole configuration delivered to the press corps for testing and reviews during the first few months prior to release. In this way they can better control the narrative, making it clear the Model ≡ is $35,000 plus options. Then, after the car is on the road, in the hands of actual owners, let them test drive the dual motor AWD version with a higher capacity battery pack that has 400+ HP and 400+ lb-ft torque, but still no 'Performance' designation.

 

[gregincal]

Precisely.


I concur. This also gives credence, I think, to my personal belief that the base Tesla Model ≡ will not be a 180 HP weakling like the BMW 320i, or a 200 HP Bantamweight like the Chevrolet BOLT. I believe it will have no less than a 60 kWh battery pack, achieve in the neighborhood of 250 mile EPA rated range, and have 300+ HP, 300+ lb-ft Torque -- in its base configuration as a rear wheel drive car. That will be enough on its own to be the sole configuration delivered to the press corps for testing and reviews during the first few months prior to release. In this way they can better control the narrative, making it clear the Model ≡ is $35,000 plus options. Then, after the car is on the road, in the hands of actual owners, let them test drive the dual motor AWD version with a higher capacity battery pack that has 400+ HP and 400+ lb-ft torque, but still no 'Performance' designation.

There definitely is no signature edition, but Elon's comments during the earnings call to me strongly suggests that the larger battery dual motor version will be the first to ship.

 

[Twiglett]

Precisely.


I concur. This also gives credence, I think, to my personal belief that the base Tesla Model ≡ will not be a 180 HP weakling like the BMW 320i, or a 200 HP Bantamweight like the Chevrolet BOLT. I believe it will have no less than a 60 kWh battery pack, achieve in the neighborhood of 250 mile EPA rated range, and have 300+ HP, 300+ lb-ft Torque -- in its base configuration as a rear wheel drive car. That will be enough on its own to be the sole configuration delivered to the press corps for testing and reviews during the first few months prior to release. In this way they can better control the narrative, making it clear the Model ≡ is $35,000 plus options. Then, after the car is on the road, in the hands of actual owners, let them test drive the dual motor AWD version with a higher capacity battery pack that has 400+ HP and 400+ lb-ft torque, but still no 'Performance' designation.

I'm not so sure about the last bit of no performance designation.
BMW prime sports car sedan is the M3, with the M5 being there for those who don't mind hauling round more bulk.
It would be a wasted opportunity to not do an all out Model 3-P80DL which leveraged the weight loss of the smaller platform and be a real BEV sports sedan - a real BMW M3 killer.

 

[Big-T]

Sorry for what may be a stupid question, but how does your reservation number play into this? Is it possible that if I waited in line at the store on the 31st to get a low reservation number I still may not get a car early because I want the rear wheel drive option instead of AWD? (Do they ask you to configure your car when you put your reservation in)?

 

[gregincal]

Your reservation number dictates when you get invited to configure your order. What you order determines when you get the car.

 

[Tam]

but how does your reservation number play into this?

You've got the right idea.

Low reservation number does not mean you'll get it first. It means you'll be called up first to order.

You'll get a better chance when you max out all those expensive options.

Reservation numbers are useful when you compare two maxed-out-option orders: the lower number would get it first.

If your reservation is 1 and when you are called to order, from 1 to 99 wouldn't order the most options, but the 100th reservation holder would order the most options, then the 100th reservation holder would get the car first, way before the rest of 99 people in front.

Ordering will not take place until Tesla knows how much to price each option first, so not now.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Would expect the model 3 to be launched with many of the options.

One motor or two (or 4)
Leather seating
Interior upgrades
Sunroof
suspension options
paint options
tire/wheel packages
Sound system upgrades
Supercharging availability
Battery sizes
tinted windshield/rear windows
Single speed, or multiple speed gears
LED lighting
GPS maps
Extended warranties
faster charging options (110/220V)
Automatic doors/hatch
Automatous driving
parking sensors
lane keeping
cruise control

Nobody will know what will be included and what will be available until configuration pages go up on the website.

 

[Tam]

many of the options.

Fair enough for many options.

Elon said he learned from Model X and would prefer to roll out improvement in increments, not all at one time.

I suspect 4 motors will have to come from S or X first, not 2017 Model ≡.

 

[Red Sage]

Twiglett: I think you misunderstood me. I believe that a 400 HP dual motor Model ≡ would just be an ordinary, every day, running around car with an 85 kWh or 90 kWh battery pack -- and would still whomp the BMW M3 with no Performance designation applied to that specific vehicle... The Model ≡ P120D would be the actual Performance car, sporting a 186 mph/300 kph top speed, 0-60 MPH in don't blink and a 1/4 mile in blindingly quick with a trap speed of way-too-damned-fast. It would be absolute over-the-top total world beating domination incarnate.

 

[Twiglett]

Twiglett: I think you misunderstood me. I believe that a 400 HP dual motor Model ≡ would just be an ordinary, every day, running around car with an 85 kWh or 90 kWh battery pack -- and would still whomp the BMW M3 with no Performance designation applied to that specific vehicle... The Model ≡ P120D would be the actual Performance car, sporting a 186 mph/300 kph top speed, 0-60 MPH in don't blink and a 1/4 mile in blindingly quick with a trap speed of way-too-damned-fast. It would be absolute over-the-top total world beating domination incarnate.

Now that I like the sound of