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NSW Govt Destination Charging grants
- Thread starter moa999
- Start date
And one AC unit at Caddens Corner Penrith. (The ACT ones were picked up from ActewAGL)
I think it's more that Evie don't act as a biller for third parties, just their own sites.
Similar to EVX who's not on that list despite receiving NSW Govt funding as well.
But you'd hope there is some consolidation in the apps eventually. Interesting that Chargefox is among the most expensive despite arguably having the most scale.
I think it's more that Evie don't act as a biller for third parties, just their own sites.
Similar to EVX who's not on that list despite receiving NSW Govt funding as well.
But you'd hope there is some consolidation in the apps eventually. Interesting that Chargefox is among the most expensive despite arguably having the most scale.
They do act as a biller, those ActewAGL sites are still owned by ActewAGL.
Or just tap with an Apple/GooglePay or phone wallet card similar to a woolies rewards card in the phone prior to charging
The technology already exists.
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But $1k in larger context of a installed cost of a commercial grade DC fast charger is nearly inconsequential.
...If they can do it on vending machines....
I don't think you want to be paying typical vending machine gross margin on charging.
If a DCFC cost $400k installed, just to recoup the cost in revenue in 5 years at 60c/kWh would require selling 365 kWh of electricity per day. That’s over seven x 50 kWh charges or 14 x 25 kWh charges. Every. Single. Day. That’s that’s pretty high vehicle turnover.
Subtract from this revenue the operational costs (landlord lease costs, O&M, electricity costs, staff costs, financing costs etc) and the desire of most businesses to operate at margins of better than 10% you quickly see how borderline a business this is.
Subtract from this revenue the operational costs (landlord lease costs, O&M, electricity costs, staff costs, financing costs etc) and the desire of most businesses to operate at margins of better than 10% you quickly see how borderline a business this is.
That is assuming Tesla and others are actually paying 60c/kWh...
What does a SC actually cost to install and commission? Some suggest Less than $250K
I suspect space leasing zero?
And Elon said in 2022 on X( FKAT) Tesla aims for 30% Gross margin or 10% net profit on the SC business
Some analysts valuing Tesla SC business at $100B
Tesla revenue from Supercharger business hidden in "services" line item
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I’m not assuming that, as per my post: “Subtract from this revenue the… electricity costs”. No DCFC operator is paying 0c/kWh for their electricity
. They also have demand charges to deal with. All of which either increase the payback time, decrease margins, or both.Really? Commercial landlords just hand over 4+ parking spaces to these companies for free? “Suspect” is not evidence.
ah my bad , understood.
Note also the average AEMO 7 day average wholesale spot price in NSW is approx $60/MWh. Which is 6c/kWh. Interesting to see what commercial users pay. Some I've heard of include deemed amount of electricity consumption.
Correct, the quid pro quo are the intangible benefits of a Tesla supercharger or another DCFC
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This is the cheapest time of year in the wholesale market. Quarterly base futures prices are a better indication.
Wholesale electricity price is also only a part of what sites need to pay. They also need to pay network-use-of-service charges covering distribution and transmission, which scales mostly by the site capacity. In some distribution areas, DC fast chargers have to be on demand tariffs, where a large part of the cost will be based on the peak half hour interval in each month.
That is true
$120/MWh = 12c/kWh Wholesale.
of course there are then the add ons
Would be interesting to have insight into how SC are tariffed. Whether demand or bulk electricity purchase.
My point is that Tesla appears to be making money on the SC business
An article from over 10 years ago is not evidence! Back then, there was a grant total of fifteen superchargers in the entire world. Tesla might have been able to find a small number of friendly landlords to hand over some space Gratis in return for the “intangible benefits” of some rich people hanging around who spent twice the average annual salary back then buying a vehicle.
So what contemporaneous evidence do you have that site hosts today don’t charge Tesla, Evie, Chargefox, or any other DCFC network provider rental fees for the space they occupy?
Again on what evidentiary basis? According to Tesla accounts filings with the SEC, the “Services and other revenue” line in its accounts includes: repair and maintenance services, service plans, merchandise and retail revenue, paid Supercharging revenue, insurance services revenue, sales of used Tesla vehicles, sales of electric vehicle components to other manufacturers and sales of non-Tesla vehicle trade-ins.
It seems Tesla does not break out how much revenue its Supercharger network actually earns, nor what it costs to build, maintain and operate. So no-one knows if it is making money or not.
There’s lots of articles speculating that in the future it might become a profit centre, and lots of articles trying to estimate its current value (which is not the same as profitability), but there is no verified evidence as to the current financial operating metrics of the Supercharger network.
However there are a number of articles saying that none of the DCFC networks are currently making money (e.g. Chargepoint posted a net loss of $344.5 million on revenue of $468.1 million for the 2022/23 fiscal year, EVgo lost $106.2 million on revenue of $54.6 million for the 2022 fiscal year and Blink Charging lost $91.6 million on revenue of $61.1 million for the 2022 fiscal year).
And Ampol in one of its “Lessons Learned” reports to ARENA stated that EV charging utilisation was only 39% of the utilisation level required for economic “breakeven”.
I think the only profitability comment we've seen is an old tweet by Elon.
Rent is an interesting one and site specific.
While Tesla wants exclusivity to install their equipment and put restrictions on who parks in it, it isn't totally alienating the original use (i.e. as a car parking spot).
Indeed one of Tesla's arguments is it brings the business/ town more customers, or more wealthy customers.
That said for some of the larger sites in the US or Europe Tesla is seemingly buying or leasing entire plots of land and developing them as supercharger sites - so there is some embedded cost in those sites.
Rent is an interesting one and site specific.
While Tesla wants exclusivity to install their equipment and put restrictions on who parks in it, it isn't totally alienating the original use (i.e. as a car parking spot).
Indeed one of Tesla's arguments is it brings the business/ town more customers, or more wealthy customers.
That said for some of the larger sites in the US or Europe Tesla is seemingly buying or leasing entire plots of land and developing them as supercharger sites - so there is some embedded cost in those sites.
The distributors in the NEM states are monopolies regulated by the AER, and in Western Australia they're regulated by the ERWA. This means their tariff structure is transparent and available online. If you know the site address and an estimate of the site capacity and max demand you can figure out which tariffs (for the NUOS - transmission and distribution charges) they could be on yourself.
Retailers can package these up with the actual electricity charges however they want, but they're not going to be signing up to lose money so you should be able to get a pretty good idea of a floor on what Tesla will be paying.
Yes I can imagine a local government doing that for NRMA and other motoring organisations, but I cannot imagine a private landlord doing that, especially for Tesla. The days when a Tesla Supercharger site was seen as a kind of honeypot for high-net-worth individuals is long gone.
