NYT article: Stalled on the EV Highway

[buzzbuzz]

Not really sure which thread to post this to since there are 4, but the latest from the CNN crew's twitter feed (Peter Valdes-Dapena is driving):

"Um... Not that hard. At @TeslaMotors Milford SuperCharger. Been leadfootin' last 20 miles"

And, from his compatriot, Abigail Bassett:

"Here we are @TeslaMotors supercharging station in Milford! 38 miles to spare!"

 

[smorgasbord]

Does he actually say he purposefully slowed down and re-accelerated, or is that just me?

You didn't know Tesla had put a perpetual motion machine into the Model S drivetrain? Broder obviously believed that.

 

[ggies07]

From the CNN drive team that JUST finished recreating the drive:

View attachment 16534

 

[joefee]

I still can't understand taking off with less range than you need to make your trip though 32 miles of range for a 65 mile trip).

It is like filling your tank with 10 gal when you need 20 gal to get to the next stop ….

 

[Norbert]

Not really sure which thread to post this to since there are 4, but the latest from the CNN crew's twitter feed (Peter Valdes-Dapena is driving):

"Um... Not that hard. At @TeslaMotors Milford SuperCharger. Been leadfootin' last 20 miles"

And, from his compatriot, Abigail Bassett:

"Here we are @TeslaMotors supercharging station in Milford! 38 miles to spare!"

Heh! The cavalry is coming!

 

[buzzbuzz]

So, their twitter feed says they left the previous supercharger with 269 miles. 38 miles remaining would mean they used 231 miles of rated range. So, not only did they prove that it can be done easily if one charges the model S properly (max range)...but they also proved that, even though Broder did a standard charge and left with 242 miles of range, he ALSO should have been able to make it...

- - - Updated - - -

To clarify, they apparently are headed all the way to Boston. But they made it to Milford with 38 miles of range to spare, the supercharger John Broder used a tow truck to get to and then turned back.

Correct...in reading the original article, this is the stop where Broder claimed the car was reading zero range and he needed to plug in immediately. Broder made it to this stop as well, but with very little left in the pack (according to him). Additionally, he claimed he had to drive slowly and with the heat off to get there. It appears the CNN guys were driving Model S the way it is meant to be driven and they haven't posted anything regarding uncomfortable climate settings...and they still have 38 miles to spare.

 

[vfx]

Unless his regen was too weak/disabled during this supposed downhill stretch.

Not sure your point but he is blaming the CC on his 80 mph burst.

 

[dadaleus]

Sorry, my previous text was in error. They haven't finished recreating the drive, just made it to the final supercharger with charge to spare.

So will they leave it outside in a driveway unplugged overnight I wonder? Hard to reproduce this exactly given the change in temperatures. I'm guessing they'll just drive on to Boston after a full (unlike Broder's partial) charge.

- - - Updated - - -

Correct...in reading the original article, this is the stop where Broder claimed the car was reading zero range and he needed to plug in immediately. Broder made it to this stop as well, but with very little left in the pack (according to him). Additionally, he claimed he had to drive slowly and with the heat off to get there. It appears the CNN guys were driving Model S the way it is meant to be driven and they haven't posted anything regarding uncomfortable climate settings...and they still have 38 miles to spare.

Oops... I thought I deleted that post before anyone commented because I had the story slightly confused. Anyway, we'll look for them to actually get farther north than Broder (well, Boston really) and then I'll be able to properly gloat.

 

[Bearman]

This is the best response yet: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2013/02/14/inspired-by-nyt-tesla-test-here-are-my-consumer-trials-of-some-products/

Agree :biggrin:

 

[buzzbuzz]

Oops... I thought I deleted that post before anyone commented because I had the story slightly confused.

I'll apologize for my part in the confusion, too...I think we have it all figured out now, though :biggrin:.

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Agree :biggrin:

+1. This was fantastic.

 

[mattjn]

Having to turn the heat down and drive below the speed limit just to make it to a supercharger, and a 1 hour or more wait, doesn't seem to me to be part of the "best car in the world". This just shows that the Model S is nothing more than an expensive enthusiast car, it is never going to be mainstream.

You are not going to get Joe Blow public to buy this car and then tell them that they can't drive more than 200 miles or that they should slow down and turn the heat off to avoid becoming stranded. Until battery technology improves drastically, EVs will never become the majority of vehicles on the road, despite all the hype and hope on these and other forums.

Even if there were supercharges every 50 miles all over this country, having to wait so long to charge is never going to be appealing. I'm sorry if you don't like what I'm saying, but to the average American, not an EV enthusiast or technology lover or someone who cares about the environment, convenience is 100% key. The ability to get in your car and go right away, not to have to plan a charge or preheat your car with an app or some other step that is not needed in an ICE. The Model S and Tesla probably will be successful, but in terms of any significant percentage of the car market, don't count on it.

 

[StephRob]

Having to turn the heat down and drive below the speed limit just to make it to a supercharger, and a 1 hour or more wait, doesn't seem to me to be part of the "best car in the world". This just shows that the Model S is nothing more than an expensive enthusiast car, it is never going to be mainstream.

You are not going to get Joe Blow public to buy this car and then tell them that they can't drive more than 200 miles or that they should slow down and turn the heat off to avoid becoming stranded. Until battery technology improves drastically, EVs will never become the majority of vehicles on the road, despite all the hype and hope on these and other forums.

Even if there were supercharges every 50 miles all over this country, having to wait so long to charge is never going to be appealing. I'm sorry if you don't like what I'm saying, but to the average American, not an EV enthusiast or technology lover or someone who cares about the environment, convenience is 100% key. The ability to get in your car and go right away, not to have to plan a charge or preheat your car with an app or some other step that is not needed in an ICE. The Model S and Tesla probably will be successful, but in terms of any significant percentage of the car market, don't count on it.

Just curious, have you driven a Tesla? I have, for the last four months, and I can tell you beyond any doubt that this IS the most "convenient" car I've ever owned. I NEVER have to go to the gas station. It's full every morning. Convenient!

 

[dsm363]

Just curious, have you driven a Tesla? I have, for the last four months, and I can tell you beyond any doubt that this IS the most "convenient" car I've ever owned. I NEVER have to go to the gas station. It's full every morning. Convenient!

Exactly. I don't think anyone here is excepting cars costing over $30,000 to take the market by storm anytime soon so not sure where mattjn is getting that from. Besides, Broder wouldn't have to turn the heat down and decrease his speed if he had simply done a full charge.

 

[cinergi]

So, their twitter feed says they left the previous supercharger with 269 miles. 38 miles remaining would mean they used 231 miles of rated range. So, not only did they prove that it can be done easily if one charges the model S properly (max range)...but they also proved that, even though Broder did a standard charge and left with 242 miles of range, he ALSO should have been able to make it...

I don't recall the temps during Broder's trip but a mid 30's (what it is right now for the areas in question) is easy on the Model S. 10 is not. I've seen over a 20% hit on range when it's that cold.

 

[jomo25]

Right, if you road trip > 250 miles every day, then yes, the Model S is the wrong car for you. But for the 99.9% of people whose daily trip is less than 250 miles, the S would be a very convenient daily driver. I'm renting a Ford Fiesta til my S arrives. It gets 40 mpg. But because my daily trip is 60 miles r/t, I need to get gas every 5 days or so. Today was one of those days. I had to take 15 minutes to fill up my car (wait+filling up), pay $38, touching a disgusting, germ-ridden, smelly dispenser handle.

 

[gtimbers]

I would like to try to analyze the possible meanings of the NYC report. We have the written article and the car's black box as evidence. Based on these inputs I see only 3 possibilities.

1. The reporter deliberately lied.
2. The reporter wrote an article that was inflammatory and misleading.
3. The reporter is incompetent. (My personal favorite, but the most unlikely of the 3 possibilities)

We have no data to support any conjecture about if or when or why one might or might not do these things. For this writing, the reasons for any of the outcomes are not on the table for discussion.

First, let us assume that the data presented by Tesla is true, perhaps embellished a bit, but true. If this is the case it is a FACT that the Reporter lied and did so knowingly. We don't have any data to suggest why he would do this (and I don't care) but either he lied or the car did. This is not negotiable. It is entirely possible that the reporter intended to treat the care like a ICE driver who is unfamiliar with the different ground rules involved with an electric car. No body was hurt, no laws were broken and no equipment was harmed. The reporter is entitled to do what he wants with his test vehicle. All that was necessary was for him to report on what really happened. There was no reason to change what he did on the drive so long as he reported it truthfully. We might choose not to do the things he did but that is completely irreverent. He had the test car, not us.

For conclusion #2 to be the case, it is necessary for Tesla's data to be a lie. Then what he did was just DELIBERATELY report in a misleading manner with the probable intent to demean the car or the chargers. All he had to do was explain that he was passing up chargers deliberately to see what would happen in the hands of the inexperienced. If he has simply stated his reasons for doing what he was doing, the article tone would not have been inflammatory and misleading. He had every right to treat the car they way he did, but saw fit to greatly slant the reasons/results. I'm not sure this result reflects on this reviewer any better than the first one.

As to the third possibility, he could just be INCOMPETENT. Whether Tesla's data is true or false, his being incompetent explains everything. I strongly doubt that this is true, however.

The bottom line is that we either have a liar, or a devious reporter who found it necessary to slant the reporting to suit his own devices, or we have a dope. As I see it there are no other realistic possibilities. The reputation of the NYT, and reporters in general have been damaged by this guy regardless of which of the 3 options is true. The crowd of other reporters rushing to his rescue are just showing that they support stupidity or biased reporting. They have been saying that he had the right to test the car they way he did - which is totally true. They don't address that he either lied or, best case substantially slanted the article to be harmful to Tesla when the slant was not necessary or true. This is basically another sad day for Journalistic integrity. In the long run however, it won't hurt the Model S a bit.

 

[cinergi]

Not sure your point but he is blaming the CC on his 80 mph burst.

Right -- just stating the possibility that if your regen is off and you have CC on and going downhill, you could find yourself going 80 when it's set to 55.

 

[nrcooled]

This whole incident is quite interesting and the response from Elon and in this thread are exactly what I would have expected. But it does illustrate to me something else...

Elon builds this great electric car, one that he says will do anything a gasoline car will do, which he says asks no compromises of its owner/driver. Oh, but here are all the things you need to remember about using it, and a few things you should avoid...

You give a person a device that looks like a car and performs like a car, and then you tell them to use it just like a car, you can't really act surprised when they do. Especially when you arranged the test. In the Real World, people drive cars 75 mph (here in the Chicago area, it's 80 or you should just stay on the surface streets). They drive when it's really cold. And they don't always remember or have time to "fill up" all the way.

The thing is that every car is this way despite being ICE or EV. Drive a BMW M3 and you'll learn to not stray too far from a gas station since you are only getting about 16-18mpg. Drive a Corvette on a road trip and you'll learn to pack less. Drive an Honda S2000 a 1000 miles and you'll learn to keep extra oil on hand. Every car has compromises and you learn them and adjust.

Tesla seems to want to put the onus on people to learn how to use their product, to fit their needs around the way the car works. I'm not sure that flies with some people, especially when you call them out publicly to tell them they didn't know what they were doing.

My iPhone is the most fantastic bit of engineering I've ever had the pleasure of using. It asks nothing of me other than to plug it in when the little battery icon is running low. I can do that while I sleep, or even while I drive. I never have to worry about it. It will do anything a corded phone will do, with the added features of a corded computer, and it does those things better than either in most cases.

Forgive me for putting words in your mouth but I highly doubt that the first time you used a smart phone that there wasn't a learning curve. Now it seems like second nature but initially you had to hunt and peck to figure out how to use the phone. I am almost positive that it was a bit of a learning curve to use the soft keyboard.

As great as the Model S is, it's not quite that revolutionary EV that everyone's hoping for, because the general public will still see the adjustments they have to make in their usual way of doing things to accomodate it. This article just adds fuel to that fire, and we can argue here ad infinitum the fairness of this or that point or statement.

This really only applies for long road trips.

 

[Slackjaw]

RexT from Connecticut, wherever you are, I tip my hat to you.

"Mr. Broder, I work pretty close to the Milford Service Plaza. The Tesla Supercharger is right in front of the McDonald's in the closest parking space to the entrance with the two gigantic glossy white charge stations next to it. Considering that the lot is actually pretty tiny, I'm surprised that you had to circle around so many times to find it.

Also, get your eyes checked. The Milford Service Plaza is pretty well lit at night."

link to comment: That Tesla Data: What It Says and What It Doesnt - NYTimes.com

 

[vfx]

I call BS

Certainly, and as Tesla’s logs clearly show, much of my driving was at or well below the 65 m.p.h. speed limit, with only a single momentary spike above 80. Most drivers are aware that cars can speed up, even sometimes when cruise control is engaged, on downhill stretches.

Without ACC my Roadster sticks EXACTLY at the set CC speed. Never wavers more than a mile even on the steepest hill. An advantage of electric (again).

To expand on my own thought. John is blaming a non-Automatic Cruise Control digitally controlled car for speeding up to 80 on a downhill.
Is that something that caught him off guard? Did he have the CC set to eighty? Was it broken? (There is a story there if it was)
For someone cruising at 60ish going to 80 that is a 40ish percent increase in speed. You would think he would notice! if he did, he never said he had gone that speed.

Not sure if there are super steep hills on that route or how long it took him to get to eighty but even he uses the term "momentary spike" when he claimed the CC allowed him to get up to that speed.

Can someone confirm the MS CC works like the Roadster? Exact digital precision assisted by regen. And if it works as perfectly when regen is off? Or does it need regen switched on to work.