Ohlins R&T Coilovers with Swift Springs!

[JKarbon]

I decided to swap the standard sport 11/12K springs that came with the Ohlins R&T coilover kit on my M3P for a set of softer 8/9K Swift springs.

I (and the fam) found the Ohlins springs to be a little too aggressive for daily street use, which even in the softest damping settings resulted in a little more suspension feedback than what I (we) wanted. Now I knew going into the R&T kit, the ride would be firmer than stock, but after a week or so behind the wheel, it was evident the kit was far more track oriented than street. After consulting with the guys over at Ohlins, Swift, and a few others in the industry, it was clear one of the key differences between most sport and street oriented coilover setups was that the street, aka comfort or GT kits, had 20-25% softer springs than their sport counterpart. So with that info on hand, I decided to swap in a set of speced 8/9K Swift springs and let me tell you something - I couldn't be happier with the results!

Ride quality improved significantly, with little to no distinguishable difference in the vehicle's level of stability. Naturally on a track or for really aggressive street driving (on good roads), the standard 11/12K Ohlins springs would prevail, but the softer 8/9K Swift springs IMO offer a much more balanced level of performance and comfort for everyday street use. I also found that the dampening adjustments with the softer Swift springs are much more prevalent, and the 20 click range offered by the R&T kit is adequate to keep the car street friendly, while still offering a respectful level of "track-ability" at the firmer end of the adjustments.

Installation and setup was straightforward and this time around, I had all four corners swapped and ready to go in just an hour and a half. The softer springs also allow for more of drop than with the firmer standard Ohlin springs, so I was able to go a little lower with the suspension. The car is currently sitting right around 30mm lower than stock (I had it at 25mm prior), which definitely closed up the monstrous wheel gaps the Model 3 is infamous for. Erring on the side caution, and to make the ride height a little more street friendly, I may ultimately bump up the suspension a bit. I will also see how it all fares after I get it aligned again later this week.

So although the R&T kit took a little fine tuning, and additional resources, it is now IMO a far more balanced road & track setup. I am aware there are other kits out there that would have sufficed in what I was looking for (and cost less) but having ridden all sorts of motorcycles for the past 40+ years, many of which with Ohlins suspension components, I knew if I went with anything other than Ohlins, I would have always second guess and or regret my purchase. Everything I have ever owned that utilized Ohlins suspension in one way or the other, has always performed beyond my expectations, and I'm happy to report, that is still the case.

The whole Ohlins R&T setup with the Swift springs set me back right around $3600. It’s not for everyone, but if you absolutely want nothing less than the best, it's a small price to pay. I was also pleasantly surprised that the Swift springs I sourced from Redwood Motorsports came painted in the identical yellow color as that of the Ohlins springs!

Here are the part numbers for the 8/9K Swift Springs, which are sold in pairs.
Front: Z65-203-080 (8 kgf/mm - 448 lbs/inch)
Rear: Z65-178-090 (9 kgf/mm - 504 lbs/inch)

Thank you to everyone at European Auto Source (EAS), Redwood Motorsports, Ohlins USA, and Swift Springs in assisting me with all this.

 

[yjypm]

I did the same but with an 8/11k setup with some re-valving done to the front by 3DM. Prior to seeing your post I was pretty happy with my setup except no matter how I adjusted the rears I still felt the rears being noticeably stiffer than the front. I was thinking about switching the rears for 10 or 9k springs but I was worried about the valving. I am glad you like your setup and the factory valving works with the dampers no problem. I might order a pair of 9k springs and swap mine out.

Edit: got 10k springs for the rears to stay within 20% of standard spring rates from ohlins

 

[Cypcode]

Jkarbon, what are your wheels and specs on them?

 

[tm1v2]

I have the Redwood Performance Sport Öhlins DFV which I think comes with 8kg/11kg front/rear, same as @yjypm is running right now it sounds like, except different valving of course but still DFV.

I'm of two minds on which way I'd guide someone who was custom spec'ing springs for a sporty street-focused ride. On one hand I've no doubt that 9kg rear like @JKarbon went to would feel smoother in most people's driving, while still handling great with Öhlins DFV damping.

On the flip side this car is clearly lacking in rear suspension travel. That was true from the factory and it remains true on coilovers unless you lift it. If you drive hard and fast over rough stuff, which I do, you will hit those rear bump stops. Fronts too some but not as easily I feel.

With the Redwood Performance Sport setup, I can still hit the bump stops coming out of big dips and such, but it's a VASTLY smoother experience than stock. I think the firmer springs pay a part in that, and by going with e.g. 9kg over 11kg, you will be trading some of that ability to completely shred up those twisty back roads for better ride in casual driving. It's probably a good tradeoff for many, but be conscious that it is a tradeoff (I believe).

For my driving and preferences/priorities, I'm guessing I'd prefer what I have, but it is just a guess. Also 10kg rear could be a interesting to try.

 

[JKarbon]

I have the Redwood Performance Sport Öhlins DFV which I think comes with 8kg/11kg front/rear, same as @yjypm is running right now it sounds like, except different valving of course but still DFV.

I'm of two minds on which way I'd guide someone who was custom spec'ing springs for a sporty street-focused ride. On one hand I've no doubt that 9kg rear like @JKarbon went to would feel smoother in most people's driving, while still handling great with Öhlins DFV damping.

On the flip side this car is clearly lacking in rear suspension travel. That was true from the factory and it remains true on coilovers unless you lift it. If you drive hard and fast over rough stuff, which I do, you will hit those rear bump stops. Fronts too some but not as easily I feel.

With the Redwood Performance Sport setup, I can still hit the bump stops coming out of big dips and such, but it's a VASTLY smoother experience than stock. I think the firmer springs pay a part in that, and by going with e.g. 9kg over 11kg, you will be trading some of that ability to completely shred up those twisty back roads for better ride in casual driving. It's probably a good tradeoff for many, but be conscious that it is a tradeoff (I believe).

For my driving and preferences/priorities, I'm guessing I'd prefer what I have, but it is just a guess. Also 10kg rear could be a interesting to try.

Agreed, I was actually town between going with either a 10k or the 9k rear springs, and just like you, some said 10k would be better suited for the rear, while others swore by the 9k. I'm pushing the 8/9k setup a little harder each day, and so far, it's been performing well. If and when I hit the rear springs inherent limitations, I will most definitely upgrade to 10k rear springs. As I'm certain you can attest, once you become accustomed to swapping the rear springs, or performing ride height adjustments, it literally is a 20min procedure per side.

 

[JKarbon]

Jkarbon, what are your wheels and specs on them?

They're made by Halibrand (yes, the same guys that make classic hot rod and racing rims). They feature Tesla specific staggered fitment (also available in a square setup as well). Model is called Hyper Kinetic, color is Anthracite (also available in silver). Fronts are 20x8.5 (+30mm), rears are 20x10 (+39mm).

 

[canasion35]

They're made by Halibrand (yes, the same guys that make classic hot rod and racing rims). They feature Tesla specific staggered fitment (also available in a square setup as well). Model is called Hyper Kinetic, color is Anthracite (also available in silver). Fronts are 20x8.5 (+30mm), rears are 20x10 (+39mm).

Mind sharing your tire specs too? Your setup is super clean.

 

[JKarbon]

Mind sharing your tire specs too? Your setup is super clean.T

Mind sharing your tire specs too? Your setup is super clean.

Yea man, no worries - Tires are Michelin Pilot Sport AS4. Fronts are 235/35, rears are 275/30.

 

[tom @ eas]

@JKarbon Appreciate the review and feedback - enjoy the new Ohlins setup!

 

[tm1v2]

A few more thoughts on this...

Yesterday, while driving around urban-ish areas, I tried to detect if my Performance Sport 8kg:11kg front:rear setup actually "feels" firmer in the rear, from a pure ride quality perspective in casual driving, as @yjypm mentioned experiencing with those spring rates on revalved R&T dampers. After all the front and rear motion ratios are probably different, and this car has a small rear weight bias. The effective spring rates are probably a lot closer than those numbers suggest.

The setup: 2 adults up front, 1 child in the back, some cargo weight in the trunk (but nothing super heavy). Performance Sport dampers halfway from full stiff all around (16 of 32 clicks from full stiff). Height within 2-3mm of stock 2021 M3P height. 245/45R18 300TW tires on 18x8.5" ET35 wheels.

Verdict: From the driver's seat I felt like I could - just barely - detect very slightly more bump impact from the rear than the front. Extremely slight but I do think just barely more from the rear. I never noticed a difference before reading this thread, which triggered me to pay attention super carefully for it.

This morning I drove 130 miles over wildly varying roads, and forgot all about any front:rear impact harshness difference - I no longer noticed it. Same damper settings, just me in the cabin, more cargo than before in the trunk.

So I think that difference is there but to me it feels so slight that I have to strain and pay very careful attention to notice. Of course @yjypm has different Ohlins DFV damping than me so that could play a part in this too - maybe the R&T just pairs better with a relatively higher front:rear spring rate ratio like the 11:12 it ships with?

 

[tm1v2]

...continuing thoughts...

Besides [1] ride quality in casual driving (smaller impacts), [2] handling of large bumps and dips especially in hard/fast driving (larger impacts / full compression into the rear bump stops), there is [3] the handling balance to consider, in steady-state cornering. The front:rear spring rate ratio will directly affect how much understeer (or oversteer) the car has at its limit of grip, when not forcing it to rotate using rear motor or brakes.

The 8kg:11kg setup on my M3P feels very close to neutral by my standards, with just a little bit of steady-state understeer, but much much less than what I was used to from AWD and FWD sport compacts. (If you've owned any, you know what I'm talking about! ) Even stock the M3P was happy to rotate under power or brakes, but now it's easier to rotate, the balance feels great, very fun and also taking good advantage of the tires' grip. Even without goosing the throttle the frontend just grips and grips...in the twisties I get scared before the frontend gives up to any understeer.

A higher front:rear spring ratio should, in theory, result in more understeer than a lower ratio. Whether that's any kind of problem is really up to you. My STI had gobs of steady-state understeer, but it felt great to drive fast anyways, and on the racetrack I learned to trail brake which completely avoided the understeer. So I'm not someone who feels like understeer is inherently a problem...it's more of a characteristic to work with, so long as you can find some way to help the car rotate. Plus I highly doubt that even 8kg:9kg would give this car excessive understeer. It's all relative and the Model 3 feels fundamentally very well balanced.

That said, most folks I know whose car background is biased towards RWD, and especially sports cars, tend to want very minimal steady-state understeer. If that's you, I would suggest a ratio like 8kg:11kg will suit you more than 8kg:9kg.

Or you could go with 8kg:9kg and use adjustable aftermarket sway bars to dial back the understeer. Having upgraded sway bars on two cars before, if your Model 3 is street-only I would suggest NOT bothering, there are downsides. If tracking your car then by all means the adjustment flexibility could be worthwhile (no matter your exact spring rates).


This of course begs the question - why not soften the front springs too, relatively speaking, to maintain the front:rear ratio? For example 6.5kg:9kg would be a very similar ratio as 8kg:11kg. Well I can't speak for @JKarbon or @yjypm of course, but for myself I can say that I value turn-in and steering response, and softening the front has to compromise that to some extent. I don't have any issue with my 8kg:11kg rear firmness, but if I did, I could certainly see choosing to only soften the rear, even if it means more understeer, because I wouldn't want to give up any steering response.

 

[yjypm]

...continuing thoughts...

Besides [1] ride quality in casual driving (smaller impacts), [2] handling of large bumps and dips especially in hard/fast driving (larger impacts / full compression into the rear bump stops), there is [3] the handling balance to consider, in steady-state cornering. The front:rear spring rate ratio will directly affect how much understeer (or oversteer) the car has at its limit of grip, when not forcing it to rotate using rear motor or brakes.

The 8kg:11kg setup on my M3P feels very close to neutral by my standards, with just a little bit of steady-state understeer, but much much less than what I was used to from AWD and FWD sport compacts. (If you've owned any, you know what I'm talking about! ) Even stock the M3P was happy to rotate under power or brakes, but now it's easier to rotate, the balance feels great, very fun and also taking good advantage of the tires' grip. Even without goosing the throttle the frontend just grips and grips...in the twisties I get scared before the frontend gives up to any understeer.

A higher front:rear spring ratio should, in theory, result in more understeer than a lower ratio. Whether that's any kind of problem is really up to you. My STI had gobs of steady-state understeer, but it felt great to drive fast anyways, and on the racetrack I learned to trail brake which completely avoided the understeer. So I'm not someone who feels like understeer is inherently a problem...it's more of a characteristic to work with, so long as you can find some way to help the car rotate. Plus I highly doubt that even 8kg:9kg would give this car excessive understeer. It's all relative and the Model 3 feels fundamentally very well balanced.

That said, most folks I know whose car background is biased towards RWD, and especially sports cars, tend to want very minimal steady-state understeer. If that's you, I would suggest a ratio like 8kg:11kg will suit you more than 8kg:9kg.

Or you could go with 8kg:9kg and use adjustable aftermarket sway bars to dial back the understeer. Having upgraded sway bars on two cars before, if your Model 3 is street-only I would suggest NOT bothering, there are downsides. If tracking your car then by all means the adjustment flexibility could be worthwhile (no matter your exact spring rates).


This of course begs the question - why not soften the front springs too, relatively speaking, to maintain the front:rear ratio? For example 6.5kg:9kg would be a very similar ratio as 8kg:11kg. Well I can't speak for @JKarbon or @yjypm of course, but for myself I can say that I value turn-in and steering response, and softening the front has to compromise that to some extent. I don't have any issue with my 8kg:11kg rear firmness, but if I did, I could certainly see choosing to only soften the rear, even if it means more understeer, because I wouldn't want to give up any steering response.

Completely agree with your point. Coming from a very tail happy rwd car I often find the stock model 3p tend to understeer. My 8/11 setup helps tremendously with understeer, at least the rear tires squeak first on throttle in corners lol.
I believe 8/10 will work fine, even if it introduces a tiny bit of understeer, trail braking is your friend. What I can’t stand is the rears are being noticeably stiffer than the front making it feel like something is not right. In physics it shouldn’t be like this because of the geometry of the rear suspension and the slight rear weight bias but somehow it’s there. My friend and I took a ride in Tom@EAS’s model Y with redwood sport coilovers before we bought the ohlins and we felt the same in his car. I suggest you to let someone else drive your car and sit in the backseat, I’m sure you’ll feel it.

l definitely won’t go lower than 8 in the front for steering response like what you said and steering feel, which to my surprise is not that bad in this car.

 

[tm1v2]

I suggest you to let someone else drive your car and sit in the backseat, I’m sure you’ll feel it.

@yjypm Oh the back seat rides worse for sure. But that's true of every car I've ever owned, stock or modded.

I think that's because the front seats are close to the middle of the wheelbase, whereas the rear seats very close to the rear axle. Which is completely typical for 4 door cars . (Except for old school rear engine stuff like a Vanagon pickup. One could totally duplicate that layout as an RWD EV, but I imagine the crumple zone requirements for modern crash safety basically don't allow for it.)

If rear seat ride quality is a priority - and it certainly will be for many - softening the rear only makes a lot of sense! (As long as you don't end up hitting those bump stops too hard/often as mentioned.)

 

[yjypm]

@yjypm Oh the back seat rides worse for sure. But that's true of every car I've ever owned, stock or modded.

I think that's because the front seats are close to the middle of the wheelbase, whereas the rear seats very close to the rear axle. Which is completely typical for 4 door cars . (Except for old school rear engine stuff like a Vanagon pickup. One could totally duplicate that layout with an EV, easily, but I imagine the crumple zone requirements for modern crash safety basically don't allow for it.)

If rear seat ride quality is a priority - and it certainly will be for many - softening the rear only makes a lot of sense! (As long as you don't end up hitting those bump stops too hard/often as mentioned.)

You do have a point regarding the location of the rear seat making it feel stiffer. I’ll try the 10k springs, if the dynamics disappoint me I’ll switch back. Fortunately the rear springs are easy to work with.

 

[tm1v2]

l definitely won’t go lower than 8 in the front for steering response like what you said and steering feel, which to my surprise is not that bad in this car.

Re: steering feeling - Did you get the MPP FLCA bearings? Totally worthwhile in my opinion.

 

[Leafable]

I decided to swap the standard sport 11/12K springs that came with the Ohlins R&T coilover kit on my M3P for a set of softer 8/9K Swift springs.

I (and the fam) found the Ohlins springs to be a little too aggressive for daily street use, which even in the softest damping settings resulted in a little more suspension feedback than what I (we) wanted. Now I knew going into the R&T kit, the ride would be firmer than stock, but after a week or so behind the wheel, it was evident the kit was far more track oriented than street. After consulting with the guys over at Ohlins, Swift, and a few others in the industry, it was clear one of the key differences between most sport and street oriented coilover setups was that the street, aka comfort or GT kits, had 20-25% softer springs than their sport counterpart. So with that info on hand, I decided to swap in a set of speced 8/9K Swift springs and let me tell you something - I couldn't be happier with the results!

Ride quality improved significantly, with little to no distinguishable difference in the vehicle's level of stability. Naturally on a track or for really aggressive street driving (on good roads), the standard 11/12K Ohlins springs would prevail, but the softer 8/9K Swift springs IMO offer a much more balanced level of performance and comfort for everyday street use. I also found that the dampening adjustments with the softer Swift springs are much more prevalent, and the 20 click range offered by the R&T kit is adequate to keep the car street friendly, while still offering a respectful level of "track-ability" at the firmer end of the adjustments.

Installation and setup was straightforward and this time around, I had all four corners swapped and ready to go in just an hour and a half. The softer springs also allow for more of drop than with the firmer standard Ohlin springs, so I was able to go a little lower with the suspension. The car is currently sitting right around 30mm lower than stock (I had it at 25mm prior), which definitely closed up the monstrous wheel gaps the Model 3 is infamous for. Erring on the side caution, and to make the ride height a little more street friendly, I may ultimately bump up the suspension a bit. I will also see how it all fares after I get it aligned again later this week.

So although the R&T kit took a little fine tuning, and additional resources, it is now IMO a far more balanced road & track setup. I am aware there are other kits out there that would have sufficed in what I was looking for (and cost less) but having ridden all sorts of motorcycles for the past 40+ years, many of which with Ohlins suspension components, I knew if I went with anything other than Ohlins, I would have always second guess and or regret my purchase. Everything I have ever owned that utilized Ohlins suspension in one way or the other, has always performed beyond my expectations, and I'm happy to report, that is still the case.

The whole Ohlins R&T setup with the Swift springs set me back right around $3600. It’s not for everyone, but if you absolutely want nothing less than the best, it's a small price to pay. I was also pleasantly surprised that the Swift springs I sourced from Redwood Motorsports came painted in the identical yellow color as that of the Ohlins springs!

Here are the part numbers for the 8/9K Swift Springs, which are sold in pairs.
Front: Z65-203-080 (8 kgf/mm - 448 lbs/inch)
Rear: Z65-178-090 (9 kgf/mm - 504 lbs/inch)

Thank you to everyone at European Auto Source (EAS), Redwood Motorsports, Ohlins USA, and Swift Springs in assisting me with all this.

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I just installed the Ohlins R&T kits on our 2020 M3. I thought the rear spring is 200mm?
Yes agree on the ride is a bit too firm but love the better control and way less rolling around. Now the vibration and noise over rough road/bumps are all gone. The new suspension make me want to drive faster somehow
Very very happy with the R&T but now looking for softer springs. Will 8k/9k wobble like stock? What setting are you on with the Ohlins? I find the rear adjustment have more than 20 clicks, the workshop who install them told me its have 72 clicks at the rear in total and 28 clicks at the front.

 

[tm1v2]

I just installed the Ohlins R&T kits on our 2020 M3. I thought the rear spring is 200mm?
Yes agree on the ride is a bit too firm but love the better control and way less rolling around. Now the vibration and noise over rough road/bumps are all gone. The new suspension make me want to drive faster somehow
Very very happy with the R&T but now looking for softer springs. Will 8k/9k wobble like stock? What setting are you on with the Ohlins? I find the rear adjustment have more than 20 clicks, the workshop who install them told me its have 72 clicks at the rear in total and 28 clicks at the front.

@Leafable Apparently R&T rear adjusters have more granular clicks than front, but same number of meaningful rotations. Each rotation should be equivalent front and rear (approximately), regardless of how many clicks a rotation corresponds to. See https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/7033583/ from Redwood Motorsports.

 

[stevehifi]

I'm running the stock R&T ohlins on 20" ubers and definitely agree that the rear is the stiffer part of the setup. That being said, I think alot of people have to also realize that the UBER heavy wheels also contribute to the harsh ride with these stiff 12k rates in the rear. I'm sure if you ran a lightweight 18/19 wheel with taller sidewall it would feel a lot better.
Compliance even with the high rates is not a problem with these DFV shocks as it can take everything that you can throw at it.
8k/9k is a great choice for the street, but be careful with the ride height as I wouldn't run too low (especially in the rear) as you'll hit the bump stops more
often.
BTW stock spring rates if anyone is curious are 6kg front and 9k rear.

 

[tm1v2]

I'm running the stock R&T ohlins on 20" ubers and definitely agree that the rear is the stiffer part of the setup. That being said, I think alot of people have to also realize that the UBER heavy wheels also contribute to the harsh ride with these stiff 12k rates in the rear. I'm sure if you ran a lightweight 18/19 wheel with taller sidewall it would feel a lot better.
Compliance even with the high rates is not a problem with these DFV shocks as it can take everything that you can throw at it.
8k/9k is a great choice for the street, but be careful with the ride height as I wouldn't run too low (especially in the rear) as you'll hit the bump stops more
often.
BTW stock spring rates if anyone is curious are 6kg front and 9k rear.

Good point about the wheel/tire sizing playing a role in the overall ride. It's a different effect from the springs and dampers, but important nonetheless. I switched to 18" before getting my coilovers, and that definitely improved the ride, but it didn't transform the ride like changing out the suspension did.

The ride and handling balance with taller tire sidewalls (245/45R18) + stiff-ish sporty coilovers (8kg/11kg Redwood Performance Sport) feels great to me. To get the same ride with the stock wheel/tire setup you'd have to go softer on the suspension, and that's a poor tradeoff. Taller sidewall + sportier suspension is the better and more practical combo in my opinion.

(Of course if you just gotta look good with big wheels, no worries, sometimes that cost has to be paid. )

 

[SBD47]

My Ohlins Road & Track kit should arrive tomorrow! I'm eager to get these installed and keeping my fingers crossed the ride is bearable. Worst case, I'll swap to the Swift springs.