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On the fence: AWD or RWD
- Thread starter hotony13
- Start date
GPinzone
Member
I live in NY, and I vowed that I'd never get another RWD car after having to deal with my 98 BMW M3 in the snow. I waited for an AWD. OTOH, it seems a Tesla RWD is more surefooted in the snow than an ICE RWD for a few reasons. The differential used on the Model S (and I assume the 3, too) is a simple open differential, but the traction control problem is ameliorated by independent breaking and cutting power to the wheels based on slippage/traction. This is partly accomplished by computer control of the drive and brakes, but also due to the electric motor being much more responsive than an ICE. See this video starting at 6:49 for an explanation:
forkee
Member
And to answer the OP - get the Performance AWD and don't look back
yep, this is what I did. i look back occasionally to see where all the cars went...
voip-ninja
Give me some sugar baby
Look into what the Swedes and Norwegians have observed. They remarked that RWD Tesla does very well in the snow with good tires but is no comparison to Tesla Dual Motor.
Paging @KarenRei
I’m in CT and went with RWD. I want that extra range when it gets cold. If I decide to drive the car in one of the five-or-less snow storms we have each year, I’ll get a set of snow tires. AWD doesn’t help you stop in slippery conditions, snow tires do.
My first AWD was a Subaru Outback. The first most obvious thing noted is that the car did not suffer from understeer or oversteer. It went wherever it was pointed. I consider that a plus. My first 1962 VW beetle had oversteer, my 1950 Buick suffered from understeer. Between the two the AWD is the better choice.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
My Subaru Legacy certainly had plenty of understeer (like most cars). Definitely better than FWD but not nearly as balanced as 50/50 weight distribution RWD. I wouldn’t chose the AWD for improved handling.
voip-ninja
Give me some sugar baby
AWD is $6K not $4K any longer... and white interior is another $1500 on top of that, and as you point out only available on dual motor cars.
The pricing is getting ridiculous, especially when considering that most people refuse to have RWD for safety concerns. Once the tax credit is phased that will be reversed.
Some counterpoints on your pros, if I may:
2. The AWD may have better traction, but to me it definitely does not handle better. The RWD's steering feels better, less constrained by the traction duty and the extra weight.
4. I doubt that anybody is driving anywhere with a broken motor. The redundancy sounds like it might help but it's more likely not to.
Having a second motor also introduces more weigh and another point of failure. The failure rate of the old induction motors seems to be higher than that of the permanent magnet motors; there must be a reason why most everyone in the industry is using the latter.
I bet the RWDs will prove to be a bit more reliable than the AWDs in the current configuration.
This ^
I test drove the Model 3 back to back with an Audi A5 Quattro in both light and heavy rain, over roads that were either merely wet or covered in standing water. The RWD Tesla was a lot less squirrely, despite the crappy tires and lack of AWD. The feedback loop between the wheels and the powertrain seems to be vastly faster than in conventional vehicles, and traction is adjusted much more quickly (that's also why Teslas accelerate with next to no wheelspin compared to any conventional-powertrain vehicle).
I've been driving various Audi Quattro models for the last 15 years (the proper ones, not the newer Haldex crap) and I would have no problem with a Model 3 RWD in bad weather. Just get decent tires (thumbs up for Michelin A/S 3) and refrain from doing stupid things. AWD helps in a few low-traction situations but does nothing in the typical oh-*sugar* moments. All cars are 4-wheel braked.
⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️
Village Idiot
I think you would be happy with either RWD or AWD, but in six months if they shave a second off the 0-60 time of the AWD model and not the RWD you might feel a twinge of regret. RWD is fun though, you can get that rear end to break loose and slide a bit. It doesn't feel dangerous. It's very controlled.
Atari2600
Active Member
I think all Subaru vehicles have brake torque vectoring(I realize this term is technically horrible but I didn't create it) which eliminates under and over steer. They started on the 2015 WRX which I traded in for my Model 3. It made the car feel like it drove on rails and you could tell the difference when you turned the system off.
I would get the AWD because it's always nice to have some power on the wheels that steer when driving in snow.
eye.surgeon
Active Member
It's actually true for all Tesla models. the single motors are more efficient, Tesla just doesn't talk about it. When dual motors first came out on the Model S they touted increased efficiency. When real world experience was otherwise, they just stopped talking about it.
Interesting, didn't know that.
Now how about a refreshed Model S with RWD and good coil suspension
The reason for the range difference between AWD and RWD is not yet clear. Some difference is expected due to the added weight (about 3%, to be specific). But the EPA says about 10%. The reason why there's such a large difference is not yet clear, but comes down to three theories:
1) Tesla says Model 3 has torque sleep. But it could be a poor or broken implementation that led to it using its less efficient front motor in EPA testing rather than just the more efficient rear motor.
2) Testing could have been done on a different wheel config as the RWD, on the testing premise that people on AWD and P would tend to select the larger, less efficient wheels.
3) There could be unexpectedly large drivetrain drag on the new front drivetrain.
Unfortunately, nobody has yet done side-by-side tests between a RWD and a AWD car on the same wheel config to help clarify the issue :Þ Any volunteers? If it's #2, then the vehicles would have only a small energy consumption difference when driven in the same conditions (speed, tire pressure, tire wear, payload weight, climate settings), close enough to experience the same weather but far enough apart to not be drafting. On the other hand, if a difference resembling the EPA's figures shows up, then it's #1 or #3. These can be distinguished with a rolldown test; if it's #1, rolldown drag will be similar in both vehicles. If it's #3, the AWD will have much more rolldown drag.
If the problem is #1, you can probably expect Tesla to fix that within a year or two via an OTA update.
If the problem is #2, it's not actually a real problem - you pick your own wheels.
If the problem is #3, it's a real problem and you're stuck with it.
1) Tesla says Model 3 has torque sleep. But it could be a poor or broken implementation that led to it using its less efficient front motor in EPA testing rather than just the more efficient rear motor.
2) Testing could have been done on a different wheel config as the RWD, on the testing premise that people on AWD and P would tend to select the larger, less efficient wheels.
3) There could be unexpectedly large drivetrain drag on the new front drivetrain.
Unfortunately, nobody has yet done side-by-side tests between a RWD and a AWD car on the same wheel config to help clarify the issue :Þ Any volunteers?
If it's #2, then the vehicles would have only a small energy consumption difference when driven in the same conditions (speed, tire pressure, tire wear, payload weight, climate settings), close enough to experience the same weather but far enough apart to not be drafting. On the other hand, if a difference resembling the EPA's figures shows up, then it's #1 or #3. These can be distinguished with a rolldown test; if it's #1, rolldown drag will be similar in both vehicles. If it's #3, the AWD will have much more rolldown drag.If the problem is #1, you can probably expect Tesla to fix that within a year or two via an OTA update.
If the problem is #2, it's not actually a real problem - you pick your own wheels.
If the problem is #3, it's a real problem and you're stuck with it.
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