TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Op-Ed: Chevrolet Bolt Makes 200-Mile, $30,000 Electric Car A Reality – Sorry Tesla

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by techmaven, Jan 12, 2015.

  1. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,557
    InsideEVs hack job article: Op-Ed: Chevrolet Bolt Makes 200-Mile, $30,000 Electric Car A Reality - Sorry Tesla

    Mr. Norby of InsideEVs makes a hyperbolic statement,

    It's a "real car", except it isn't a real car.

    I've been detecting a distinct anti-Tesla bias from, surprisingly, media outlets that cover green and/or electric cars.
     
  2. cpa

    cpa Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2014
    Messages:
    934
    Location:
    Central Valley
    Yes, but media types tend to be liberals first and foremost. GM manufactures autos primarily in the $25-$50K range, with only a few more expensive than that range. Tesla only manufactures autos in the $70-130K range. So, ironically right now some media types are siding with David (GM) vs. Goliath (Tesla.) They are pulling for the underdog in this endeavor. They perceive Tesla (the company) and us owners as elitist and wealthy even though we all know that is not necessarily true.

    The Model 3 may not be available even until 2018 for various reasons, but once it is under production and on the road, the bucket of Bolts that Chevrolet is selling won't matter. Then the green media will change their tune.
     
  3. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,911
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    All the green car/ev sites are accused of being Tesla cheerleaders so they write snarky comments like that from time to time to prove they are not Tesla fanbois.

    Bolt is at least as real as the Model 3. The GM-LG Chem plant in Holland Michigan is at least as real as the bones of the first module of the GF in the Nevada desert.

    If Volt 2.0 is as successful as GM and Volt fans hope there will be little if any Fed Tax Credits left for the Bolt.
     
  4. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,850
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Yeah, massively biased. GM really hasn't done anything. They've shown an empty shell concept car that doesn't actually drive, and probably won't bear much resemblance to their production model.

    Tesla has working 200 mile EV technology in the real world. GM doesn't. Tesla is aiming for the 3-series. GM is aiming for a Kia hatch.

    Kudos to GM for taking this one. But writing Tesla's obituary is very premature!
     
  5. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,496
    Location:
    Maine
    In some ways the Bolt's less real. It's a concept, which doesn't mean it'll be built. And GM hasn't committed to building any manufacturing facilities.
     
  6. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2012
    Messages:
    4,446
    Location:
    WPB Florida
    Hummmmmm, bet on GM who can not seem to pull their heads out of their corporate rears or Tesla who continue to bat down one huge milestone after another. I do hope the Bolt becomes a reality but I would not hold my breath.

    WRT that GM/LG battery factory, just how many batteries can it produce? We've seen the scale Tesla is going to for G3 production quantities. Just how many batteries can that Holland Michigan factory produce (over what they are doing today)? I the answer will tell us just what GM is capable if they somehow find a way to execute like Tesla.
     
  7. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,911
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Model 3 is just words. You can't see a picture of it. You can see a picture of the Bolt. There is not guarantee the Model 3 will be built.

    GM has plenty of manufacturing space. It does not need to build any new facility to build the Bolt.

    GM's Hamstrack can easily accommodate 100k Bolts. Especially with the ELR selling in the 1k range :)
     
  8. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,850
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Yes but GM doesn't have a Gigafactory under production. You think LG is going to be able to build 100k battery packs per year anytime soon?
     
  9. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,911
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Holland can produce enough battery cells for either 60k Volts or 20 Bolts.

    If they continue selling roughly 20k Volts per year that means 13.3k Bolts per year.

    The Holland plant was intended as the first "module" too. The plan back in 2008 was for Volt to be selling at 60k per year by now and build a second module to expand production for Volt 2.0.

    If the Bolt/Volt sell out in 2017/18 I take it a new module could be built rather quickly.

    Without a Supercharger type network I would never consider buying a Bolt. Then again I am amazed at how well the LEAF is selling.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I think LG Chem could import them from Korea/China today at higher cost and have a new facility in the USA built within 18 months of getting the get go from GM.

    Auto grade lithium ion batteries are not Rocket Science.
     
  10. 3mp_kwh

    3mp_kwh Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    822
    Location:
    Boston
    Gas prices fell, and one cynical narrative is that it was time to release everything you can later say didn't make sense, because those gas prices stayed low. If ever there were a door to pull product, and I note the ELR was pulled from LA and doesn't seem to be on deck at NAIAS (yet?), than the coming 12-24 months could be the opportunity to pull it. Let "gas prices" take the fall.

    I hope Bolt survives, too, and wouldn't put Tesla in the lead on this one. Packing value in this segment is not their specialty. I'm not even sure how much it's on their minds. At least they'll sell it when they get there.
     
  11. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,850
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Okay, so well know if the Bolt is real if we hear that they're building a battery plant.
     
  12. cdub

    cdub Future Model 3 owner

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Messages:
    176
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The Bolt is a god awful name. And it only seats 4. Next.
     
  13. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,496
    Location:
    Maine
    (Hamtramck). Point is that it's not clear that GM has spent any money on it, other than build a show concept, while Tesla's already borrowed money for and is spending money on the Gigafactory, and has Panasonic signed up for it. GM couldn't even be bothered to put a fake DC charging port on the concept to show that it can charge on DC. And by saying $30k with incentives, they aren't being positive on the Volt either, because if they actually sold as many Volts as they can make, the incentives would be used up by the time the Bolt was released.
     
  14. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,557
    #14 techmaven, Jan 12, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
    The Compact Power facility in Michigan is about 1 gigawatt-hour and took about 3 years to build. At that point, it had 60% of nameplate capacity. They also borrowed $150 of the $300 million from the government.

    The issue is really, will they get a "go" from GM brass soon, or will they wait until after they've been selling the Bolt for a while in 2017/2018 and then make a judgement call?
     
  15. omarsultan

    omarsultan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    1,496
    Location:
    Northern California
    I think the practical issue with this is that GM now has to fold LG Chem's profit margin into their cost structure which not condusive to reducing $/kWh and also creates the problem of long-term price stability--if the Bolt/Volt is a huge success you can bet the LG will want to grab a bigger piece of that since GM is tied towards them.

    While there is a larger up-front capital investment with the GF, the vertical integration it offers addresses both the cost and stability issues in the long-run.

    O
     
  16. Tasdevil

    Tasdevil Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Messages:
    292
    Location:
    Tasmania
    While nothing has been revealed yet, I say well done to GM for making an EV that goes 200miles for 30k.
    Tesla needs a gigafactory to make an EV that goes 200miles for $35k.
    I hope GM do well with this car, the more EVs on the road the better for everyone.
     
  17. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2012
    Messages:
    4,256
    Location:
    California
    Um...the car is not made yet. So we might want to save the 'well done' part until they actually do make the car, it gets 200 miles per charge, AND offered for $37,500 (before incentives).
     
  18. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    2,557
    Well, the author is getting it from the comments in the article, so the InsideEVs readership seems to understand the reach that the author went for in his article.

    I'm all for GM doing this for real. But this isn't for real yet.

    What's puzzling is the anti-Tesla bias in several "green" publications. Maybe they're just tired of talking about Tesla all the time?
     
  19. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,038
    I think a lot of people are still of the opinion that there's too much hype about Tesla and that other automakers can "easily" catch up with Tesla once they put some effort in. So they will be quite happy to write an article where someone else has "beaten" Tesla.
     
  20. omarsultan

    omarsultan Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    1,496
    Location:
    Northern California
    Tesla is always good for clickbait (=$).

    O
     

Share This Page