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Options trading strategy/advice

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Not to bog down the main thread with options, but did anyone go for some nice put premiums for some mid-high 300's strikes after battery day? I looked at them, and even the 330 for next Friday was I think 9-something this morning. I mean, next Friday may be Q3 P&D, or at least the run up of it, so it'd be a fairly safe bet.
 
Considering selling weekly covered calls for income. Thinking far enough out of the money that the chance of being exercised is slim. The premium would only be around $200-$300 but I could sell 10 contracts against 1,000 shares. Would provide a reasonable amount of income each week.

I’m aware of the implications of potential scenarios with this approach but curious if anyone has had success with a similar approach in practice? Thanks
 
Considering selling weekly covered calls for income. Thinking far enough out of the money that the chance of being exercised is slim. The premium would only be around $200-$300 but I could sell 10 contracts against 1,000 shares. Would provide a reasonable amount of income each week.

I’m aware of the implications of potential scenarios with this approach but curious if anyone has had success with a similar approach in practice? Thanks

Take a look at this thread for more info about what you are trying to do:

Applying options strategy 'the wheel' to TSLA
 
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Anyone thinking of playing for a OTM call expiration for Oct 9th? They're not that bad, since the SP has been stagnant for the last few days, and without a doubt Q3 P&D will be out by then. Even if not held till expiry, it could net a nice little profit of after market pop either on close of market on Thursday, or on Friday, and thus a possible Mighty Monday.
 
Anyone thinking of playing for a OTM call expiration for Oct 9th? They're not that bad, since the SP has been stagnant for the last few days, and without a doubt Q3 P&D will be out by then. Even if not held till expiry, it could net a nice little profit of after market pop either on close of market on Thursday, or on Friday, and thus a possible Mighty Monday.

As a lead out, I don't buy short expiration long contracts (unless I'm intra-day swing trading, but usually then I'd prefer trading futures contracts) and I DEFINITELY do not EVER even entertain the notion of letting a long call expire...

That out of the way, let's break this one down:
--It SEEMS like the delivery numbers are going to be good, so that's a potential good thing
--We're currently testing the top side of a symmetric triangle, which could be a good or a bad thing. We're more or less 2/3 deep into the triangle, which is about where you'd want to see the break.
--We've also seen 20MA provide support in the past couple days, which is a soft good thing.
--We know 450-460 is going to offer a bit of resistance, and then the ATH at 500 will offer stronger resistance.
--We know volatility is mid-range-ish for recent months, but we can also safely speculate that its likely to increase as we get closer to earnings.
--We also know earnings is a few weeks away.

IMHO:
--The above does add up to a potentially good trade
--A good entry would be on a clear break of the triangle (like, if there's a gap on the open tomorrow)
--Since we're so close to earnings, its extremely short sighted to not factor in earnings into any position
--A diagonal or horizontal is a better play than just a call

For the position:
--I prefer my long spreads with close expirations (less than 2 weeks) on the short leg, so I prefer Oct9
--Given likely upside price movement, something above 460 is a good strike for the short leg in that timeframe. I'd probably go 480.
--***For a Oct16 expiration I'd go higher--at least 500.
--I like NET Nov 6 as expiration for the anchor leg, as this envelopes any run up into earnings, including earnings week. Any closer and I don't like the theta burn, plus the closer expirations have worse ∆ than nov6.
--For a diagonal, I'd probably go ATM for the anchor leg strike price, but could also see something in the 460 range or so.
--For a horizontal I'd probably go with 480

For the exit:
--A good stop would probably be at or just below 20MA, with the logic that if it goes farther than that it will likely test the bottom side of the triangle (which is also 50MA, and would make for a potential re-entry point).
--Generally I protect all my positions at $0 once I make enough profit to be reasonably confident position value won't do a quick dip back negative. Its kind of hard to really nail down a number with spreads...this one kinda ends up being more gut feel than anything.
--The $0 stop loss also protects from a mega-spike in underlying which is especially necessary on a horizontal since the position's P/L comes back down pretty quickly on the way-upside.
--I'd further protect profit by increasing the stop as profit grows
--Assuming its a good trade with good return, I'd keep rolling the short leg out and up on Thursday or Friday (depending on residual value/theta) through earnings, in the same way one would roll a weekly covered call. Even if the short leg goes ITM, I'd stay in the position and keep rolling as long as the profit is there. The stop loss will take care of unexpected spikes.
--I'd almost certainly close out by 10/29 or 10/30, but would potentially contemplate reverse-split-rolling the whole thing out while simultaneously taking profit. For instance, if I had 20 spreads, I might reverse split them into 3 or 5 spreads but with farther expirations, while also realizing 50-75% of the initial position's profit.

For funsies, here's the P/L for the 480 Oct9/Nov6 horizontal, at least if you bought it right now (I'm not). Remember that stop is ~$410 on the underlying (or even $405) so loss is realistically on the order of $200-300/spread, against an entry requirement of ~$2400. If you got REALLY lucky and nailed 480 you might double your money (remember that volatility is more likely to go up, so the whole P/L will shift up accordingly), but pretty much anything in the ~$450-530 range is going to return 10% on capital in a week and a half, and that ain't bad...
upload_2020-9-30_12-22-29.png
 
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Anyone thinking of playing for a OTM call expiration for Oct 9th? They're not that bad, since the SP has been stagnant for the last few days, and without a doubt Q3 P&D will be out by then. Even if not held till expiry, it could net a nice little profit of after market pop either on close of market on Thursday, or on Friday, and thus a possible Mighty Monday.

i've got 540c and 600c for Oct 9. also have some for Oct 16, in case of earnings run-up.

IV seems to be dropping because of the low volume trading. I plan to wait until last hour of trading tomorrow and buy a couple of lottos for Oct 2nd. I expect low volume flat trading tomorrow unless there is an email leak or something to pump the stock.

For Oct 9th expiry I think today is probably a good time to buy some call options. I’m not too excited about this quarter’s P&D only because of wall street’s expectations(140K) but options are fun so I cannot resist :). Actually straddles might not be a bad option for Oct 2nd expiry.
 
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Anyone thinking of playing for a OTM call expiration for Oct 9th? They're not that bad, since the SP has been stagnant for the last few days, and without a doubt Q3 P&D will be out by then. Even if not held till expiry, it could net a nice little profit of after market pop either on close of market on Thursday, or on Friday, and thus a possible Mighty Monday.

I ended up buying calls for strike 447 for tomorrow for about 9.5 each. Tried buying 440 strike in the morning for $9 each - unfortunately, only got only 1 call option for that price. By the time I realized only 1 out of 10 was purchased, the price had already jumped up to 13. These for tomorrow's expiration are obviously 'lottery tickets' with high likelihood of losing out.

Also bought some for 10/9 with same strike price of 447. Speculative and risky, but I am OK with losing on these as well.

Previously, I already have a few with 10/16 and 10/30 which were purchased before the split - so have odd strike prices - 370 and 388. These are profitable already, so will hold then till about 1 week before expiration or just before ER and sell.

So, lets see how the P&D report plays out!

(I don't bother with spreads - this is a IRA account with no margin. I could use covered calls against my long term hold stocks, but honestly the premiums are too low for the far far OTM options. Not willing to risk losing my shares for anything lower)
 
I ended up buying calls for strike 447 for tomorrow for about 9.5 each. Tried buying 440 strike in the morning for $9 each - unfortunately, only got only 1 call option for that price. By the time I realized only 1 out of 10 was purchased, the price had already jumped up to 13. These for tomorrow's expiration are obviously 'lottery tickets' with high likelihood of losing out.

Also bought some for 10/9 with same strike price of 447. Speculative and risky, but I am OK with losing on these as well.

Previously, I already have a few with 10/16 and 10/30 which were purchased before the split - so have odd strike prices - 370 and 388. These are profitable already, so will hold then till about 1 week before expiration or just before ER and sell.

So, lets see how the P&D report plays out!

(I don't bother with spreads - this is a IRA account with no margin. I could use covered calls against my long term hold stocks, but honestly the premiums are too low for the far far OTM options. Not willing to risk losing my shares for anything lower)

Hah ! wish I had the time to study and act on this, really had the urge to "gamble" also some, because it seems the SP is under upward pressure. Let us know how your various bets turn out! Rooting for a short term victory, but we all know the odds are like 50/50 or something like that - what with the S&P surprising no show - the not well received Battery Day (for whatever reason, tho I suspect same F.kg Fudsters).

*** Would love to hear of some better than 80% odds medium to long term OTM plays - Jan 21, June 22 or Jan 23 - would like getting some $5-10K bets into the future, no problems re tax (they're in IRAs) - and wait for the VI to go even lower, or just go for it now before the possible big moves..
 
Hah ! wish I had the time to study and act on this, really had the urge to "gamble" also some, because it seems the SP is under upward pressure. Let us know how your various bets turn out! Rooting for a short term victory, but we all know the odds are like 50/50 or something like that - what with the S&P surprising no show - the not well received Battery Day (for whatever reason, tho I suspect same F.kg Fudsters).

*** Would love to hear of some better than 80% odds medium to long term OTM plays - Jan 21, June 22 or Jan 23 - would like getting some $5-10K bets into the future, no problems re tax (they're in IRAs) - and wait for the VI to go even lower, or just go for it now before the possible big moves..

@FrankSG has some excellent worksheets for this. My TSLA Investment Strategy

I try my hand at some calculations following his methods - although not as elaborate. I am thinking the June 2021 @450 strike look attractive. It is less risk than the higher strikes, and the returns are reasonable at if Tesla doubles in price. For the higher strikes, the numbers look good only after stock goes to 3X of current price.

Screen Shot 2020-10-01 at 10.44.36 PM.png

edit: To explain my calculations - this is the comparison of buying 100 shares at 450 today, vs using the same money 45K to buy LEAPS in today's price instead. Then using Fidelity P&L calculator to determine prices of the options at different prices of share price
 
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@FrankSG has some excellent worksheets for this. My TSLA Investment Strategy

I try my hand at some calculations following his methods - although not as elaborate. I am thinking the June 2021 @450 strike look attractive. It is less risk than the higher strikes, and the returns are reasonable at if Tesla doubles in price. For the higher strikes, the numbers look good only after stock goes to 3X of current price.

View attachment 594489

edit: To explain my calculations - this is the comparison of buying 100 shares at 450 today, vs using the same money 45K to buy LEAPS in today's price instead. Then using Fidelity P&L calculator to determine prices of the options at different prices of share price
That is a good calculation method if you are looking to hold to expiration. If you are looking to gamble short term events with Leaps , the higher strikes can provide some extra leverage over shares with less risk (especially if you are willing to add leaps in case of an unexpected dip and ride out until the next rally).

Not advice, play according to your own risk tolerance etc
 
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To explain my calculations - this is the comparison of buying 100 shares at 450 today, vs using the same money 45K to buy LEAPS in today's price instead.

FWIW, I find it more useful when contemplating positions to factor risk/reward against capital (as opposed to just capital normalization) and, especially when comparing shares to contracts, risk to capital. That may be conservative, but my fundamental goal when entering a position is minimal account balance drawdown. YMMV.

If you are looking to gamble short term events with Leaps...

There's not one right way to approach options of course, but I like LEAPS as a low-capital alternative to long-hold shares (bought at low volatility, or as a spread with higher volatility) and prefer more contracts at closer expirations for shorter term positions like daily timeframe directional trading (which is almost all of my trading) and earnings/dividend dice rolls. The ∆ is much more favorable, the theta is less favorable but manageable because of the ~short time in position, and the ∆Vol*Vega usually ends up with a larger impact because the closer expiration volatility usually moves faster than the farther expiration.

Just to calibrate, I'm talking about positions held for days-weeks for which I'll usually buy long legs at ~1-6 months and sell short legs at ~1-4 weeks.
 
Hah ! wish I had the time to study and act on this, really had the urge to "gamble" also some, because it seems the SP is under upward pressure. Let us know how your various bets turn out! Rooting for a short term victory, but we all know the odds are like 50/50 or something like that - what with the S&P surprising no show - the not well received Battery Day (for whatever reason, tho I suspect same F.kg Fudsters).

*** Would love to hear of some better than 80% odds medium to long term OTM plays - Jan 21, June 22 or Jan 23 - would like getting some $5-10K bets into the future, no problems re tax (they're in IRAs) - and wait for the VI to go even lower, or just go for it now before the possible big moves..

Well, looks like I am losing all the $$ on the options play expiring today - well knew it was a gamble opening the position.

Well, tried to buy a couple of the June'21 LEAPS, but didn't go through yet. They haven't dropped as much as I was hoping for on a day like today. Might increase my limit price to get them before the Friday last hour FOMO starts.
 
Well, looks like I am losing all the $$ on the options play expiring today - well knew it was a gamble opening the position.

Well, tried to buy a couple of the June'21 LEAPS, but didn't go through yet. They haven't dropped as much as I was hoping for on a day like today. Might increase my limit price to get them before the Friday last hour FOMO starts.

Thanks for information and follow up. Will take a while to digest and transmute into action.

Re you expiring trades today, if you knew your odds were good at the time you set the play, no regrets - it'll average out over time.

Now I broke the HODL or LEAPS rule, and just bet on a couple shorter horizon TSLA 10/30/2020 440.00 C @ 33.00 https://client.schwab.com/public/quickquote/symbolrouting.aspx?Symbol=TSLA%2010%2F30%2F2020%20440.00%20C expecting a rebound after 3Q earnings expected to be way over expectations per Dave on Twitter https://twitter.com/heydave7/status/1312056490572668929
 
@FrankSG has some excellent worksheets for this. My TSLA Investment Strategy

I try my hand at some calculations following his methods - although not as elaborate. I am thinking the June 2021 @450 strike look attractive. It is less risk than the higher strikes, and the returns are reasonable at if Tesla doubles in price. For the higher strikes, the numbers look good only after stock goes to 3X of current price.

View attachment 594489

edit: To explain my calculations - this is the comparison of buying 100 shares at 450 today, vs using the same money 45K to buy LEAPS in today's price instead. Then using Fidelity P&L calculator to determine prices of the options at different prices of share price

Generally I don’t hold to expiration, but I use an in-between date to calculate and compare. In the spreadsheet picture I posted above, I used Mid-May2021 as the possible date to sell. My logic is that gives enough time for stock appreciation to compare the returns on that day. So, for e.g would you expect the stock to rise by 50% or 2X or 3X by May next year - and based on that, which would possibly give better returns for the capital that was put in. Obviously the risk with the Shorter expiration options at higher strikes is much higher.

In all honesty the kind of 8-10X of stock price growth we saw over the last year was likely a once in a lifetime opportunity. I am glad I was able to take advantage of it. But I am not expecting that again and will expect more modest returns. So by that logic, 50% appreciation of stock price over the next year is aggressive- I will be happy with that. So going too high of strike price if a person is interested in LEAPS is probably not a safe bet.

So my strategy now is to choose ATM or slightly ITM calls with >9 months expiry with plans to hold > 6 months. All this gives is more leverage compared to buying stock. But I am still investing similar to HODL not really trading for 10-15% return in shorter timeframe.
 
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Generally I don’t hold to expiration, but I use an in-between date to calculate and compare. In the spreadsheet picture I posted above, I used Mid-May2021 as the possible date to sell. My logic is that gives enough time for stock appreciation to compare the returns on that day. So, for e.g would you expect the stock to rise by 50% or 2X or 3X by May next year - and based on that, which would possibly give better returns for the capital that was put in. Obviously the risk with the Shorter expiration options at higher strikes is much higher.

In all honesty the kind of 8-10X of stock price growth we saw over the last year was likely a once in a lifetime opportunity. I am glad I was able to take advantage of it. But I am not expecting that again and will expect more modest returns. So by that logic, 50% appreciation of stock price over the next year is aggressive- I will be happy with that. So going too high of strike price if a person is interested in LEAPS is probably not a safe bet.

So my strategy now is to choose ATM or slightly ITM calls with >9 months expiry with plans to hold > 6 months. All this gives is more leverage compared to buying stock. But I am still investing similar to HODL not really trading for 10-15% return in shorter timeframe.

Not only that, but TSLA's current SP matches the bull case in Frank's spreadsheet 9 months ahead of schedule for 2Q 2021, and the ATH has matched his bull case for 3Q 2021. Those assume TTM EPS of $30-40 compared to today's single digit EPS. Anyone investing in naked LEAPs should temper expectations appropriately.
 
As a holder of Jun22 $1000 LEAPS I'm wondering this as well.

From my limited knowledge, I gather it depends on what you want: more leverage/exposure or more safety.

A great resource from our very own TMC is this thread from a couple of years back: Rolling LEAPS?

The main takeaway there is that - IF you plan to roll LEAPS forward in time, you should do so when the price and volatility is high. Volatility (IV) doesn't weigh as much on the price of "further out LEAPS" than closer ones, therefore rolling forward (= you replace an option with another option of the same strike price but an expiration date further in to the future) is beneficial when IV (and SP) is high.

Right now would therefore be a pretty good tim to roll forward if you want to.

Wether you want to roll up or down (=replacing your option with another with a higher (up) or lower (down) strike price) depends on how much leverage vs. safety you want.

In my case (JUN22 $1000) I've decided to let it ride some more. Currently I could buy 2 JUN22 $1800 calls for every 1 JUN22 $1000 call I own, but:
- if we would reach a SP of $2000 by JAN22 the profit would be similar (actually more for the JUN22 $1000 LEAPS);
- if the SP cannot reach $2000 by JUN22 the $1800 LEAPS expire close to worthless. The $1000 LEAPS are much safer.

However, if the SP would go bananas and exceed $3000 for example (by expiry), the $1800 LEAPS would net me more profit. The higher we'd go, the better off those would be compared to the $1000 LEAPS (again: 2 vs 1 starting from today).

So again, given the above I think I'll just let the $1000 ride some more until they are DITM instead of ATM. If we reach $1500 soon by the end of the year I'll probably roll forward and upwards (JAN23 $1500 for example) If possible I'll take some money off the table then, keeping it on hand in case of another huge dip. (The best time to buy LEAPS :rolleyes:)

Would love to hear others thoughts on how to treat ATM/ITM LEAPS for maximum performance vs. safety.
I know this is a very old post, but I’m enjoying reading through some of these older trading thread. So, did you roll those LEAPS forward? I’m assuming that the prices are all pre-split, so your $1000 strike is like $200 today. Selling that one and buying a bunch of JAN23 $1500 ($300 today) in your example looks like pure genius today. Did you hold or cash out?
 
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Option novice here.

Anybody holding any 21jan15 700/higher calls? What are you going to do with those? Sold, rolled or bought more?

I still have a few and these have dropped 50% with the IV crush. Still bullish on SP hitting 700 due to P&D on Jan04, but getting a feeling that market has "priced that in" and not sure if the options will recover. Appreciate any opinions.