lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
We are now looking to determine the Rockwell number of Tesla's "head".
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Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits
- Thread starter Ingineer
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Is it sad that I am enough of a nerd to have gotten that joke immediately?
This is wonderful. Thanks for sharing.
I'd like to see the response for a car that is verified as limited, written in a similar Service Invoice. Hopefully it would list a summary of repairs done and Pay Type as Good Will.
I'd like to see the response for a car that is verified as limited, written in a similar Service Invoice. Hopefully it would list a summary of repairs done and Pay Type as Good Will.
Okay. That does it.
We're at 100 friggin' pages on this thread, in a very small number of days, and not ONE word from Elon.
I'm sending him a Tweet as this is about to get really stupidly expensive (and embarrassing) as there is NO reason this has to go down that path other than the hubris of the, "What, us? We're perfect here at Tesla!" mentality.
Unbelievable.
Do they really think this will just "blow over?!?"
Do they really think they've done nothing wrong here?!?
Are they out of their collective minds?
We're at 100 friggin' pages on this thread, in a very small number of days, and not ONE word from Elon.
I'm sending him a Tweet as this is about to get really stupidly expensive (and embarrassing) as there is NO reason this has to go down that path other than the hubris of the, "What, us? We're perfect here at Tesla!" mentality.
Unbelievable.
Do they really think this will just "blow over?!?"
Do they really think they've done nothing wrong here?!?
Are they out of their collective minds?
Maybe doing the right thing is deemed even costlier than not doing the right thing - and they're hoping for the best?
Then again, they have not really been doing the right thing with any of the other Performance car limitations that have been listed ad infinitum. Maybe they are really hoping it will be again solved only through very localized litigation and otherwise will blow over. A few people sue them but otherwise it will be hushed under the carpet?
Then again, they have not really been doing the right thing with any of the other Performance car limitations that have been listed ad infinitum. Maybe they are really hoping it will be again solved only through very localized litigation and otherwise will blow over. A few people sue them but otherwise it will be hushed under the carpet?
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Good (or even average) attorneys will not limit discovery to just these three counters. I wonder if Tesla has considered what happens when their other "protection" mechanisms are made a matter of public record?
The person who insisted on the "publicity", clearly didn't have as his goal attracting the attention of Lieff, Cabraser, Herman & Bernstein.
That his "publicity campaign" did so attract the attention of such a high powered and "blood thirsty" law firm, and in fact in short order, is a side effect that both you, and I, will have to learn to appreciate, now isn't it?
Perhaps it wasn't his goal, but I doubt it was something he would have more issue with than he'd have with suppressing this. Publicity is like freedom or democracy, having it is beneficial, but one doesn't get to cherry-pick what becomes of it. It just is.
The alternative here, silence and individually splintered attempts (with or without lawyers) to make it right in private, is arguably - in a lot of our opinion I think - worse than public pressure. Because we all agreed Tesla wasn't budging.
Tesla could still easily avoid the lawsuit just by making this right, right now.
And you were so against getting the lawyers involved.
Glad to see that the hardness of your own skull was less than you had let on.
I feel you are misquoting a lot of this past thread to suit your narrative. People were opposing your view that publicity should be suppressed and replaced by invidual lawsuits.
That is a far cry from public class action. Completely separate things. IMO class action is much closer to "public pressure" than it is to your idea of private lawyer dealing with Tesla.
There's no "perhaps" in it.
It most certainly was not his goal. So to heap praise on his efforts for it having come to this, is ridiculous.
This is hardly what he wanted, nor what the intent of his effort was.
However even though, I never agreed with his intent, while the potential benefit of his questionable effort, through perhaps the strongest pressure there is, legal pressure, a form of pressure which he did not seek, is an unintended side effect that I'll take. But I never will under any circumstances "thank" him or give him credit for such.
His effort was never, ever intended to, but it did attract a capable law firm which has the means of forcing the issue.
And legal action, strong legal
pressure, was something which I had long advocated in this thread as the most effective means of getting this matter resolved and Tesla's position on it reversed.
That his efforts, in an unintended way has seemingly lead to that, is a by product that I won't turn down.
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hill
high fiber member
Think about the poor slobs that have models X < 100kWh w/ ludicrous ... they get power down AND a double vision ghosting windshield. I don't feel so bad now, only having HW2/EAP that doesn't yet work.
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I never ruled out individual nor class action lawsuits.
I earlier stated that if this matter ever hit me, that I was prepared to go it alone.
If my individual legal action were to evolve from that, well then so be it.
So no, you're mistaken.
At any rate at the end of the day, you can argue all you like, I couldn't give a rat's ass for your argument.
The fact is, irrespective of how it came about , FINALLY, what I advocated earlier, legal pressure, is being seen as a viable option, indeed the best option, by more in here than when I first advocated it.
My message, whether you like it or not, has finally sunk in.
And there's not a damn thing that you or anyone else in here can do about it, because you've finally sobered up and realized that no, Tesla isn't budging" on this matter. And won't until the lawyers step in. There is no more denying that. I certainly do not want Tesla to get hit by any sort of lawsuits. Class action or otherwise.
But to think that this particular matter is going to be resolved by anything less than actual legal pressure or the threat of it, is preposterous.
Now go ahead and "dislike" that.
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My point is this: I feel a lot of us in this thread are advocating for publicity despite the fact that it may result in side-effects. We know it does and it can. Same with the trolls and seekingalphas and whatnot - we know publicity stirs them as well. Many of us still think publicity is the better course to taking things private and to an individual lawsuit, despite of this. Other owners need to know, that is the right thing to do. And publicity does have the potential of creating pressure that leads to making things right more pro-actively than slowly through courts.
Nobody is asking you to. But the fact remains, without publicity many people who now know, would never have known.
Publicity attracts many kinds of pressure. That was the idea for many of us, I think. The law firm has no case if Tesla simply makes this right. There is no case yet. An individual lawsuit would not have such an effect, even though it might allow for an individual resolution down the road.
The specific kind you advocated was taking this out of the public eye and into an individual lawsuit. A lot of us disagreed on that very specific difference - not on having lawyers as one tool in the toolbox in general, but the notion that one should remain private on the matter and merely employ their own lawyer(s) on the case.
I have no reason to press anything but my keyboard. Certainly there is nothing I can do to alter your view of the past or that of the views of others.
For the sake of other readers, though, I feel like a adding: IMO a lot of us - including the people you are responding to - were never against the idea of legal action in general, but against your specific notion of not going public and working through one's own lawyer.
You @P85DEE even went on lengths to say how other owner's plight was not your concern and you should not endanger your private resolution by going public (that would help other owners know where things stand). You even stipulated your concern that publicity might endanger the existence of Tesla as a company and thus should be avoided.
A lot of us felt publicity was a good thing in the process of fixing this, no matter if or how or where lawyers enter the picture. Simply because the alternative of letting this slide is worse.
Seeking private resolution for a lawyered number of individual cases is no resolution. The resolution is Tesla making a wrong right. I don't see how that could even be achieved by individual private action alone, nor by suppressing this for the benefit of an individual lawsuit. With publicity at least there is some chance.
Do you want this matter resolved or do you want to argue "chicken or egg"?
That's the problem with some of us in here. We can't see the forest for the trees.
Seriously, that's a big problem here. We're too busy beefing with one another, putting each other on ignore, and other such nonsense, as if that mattered to anyone but ourselves, and arguing amongst ourselves, and then wondering why so many of our concerns about our cars aren't addressed.
Too busy arguing over how things ought to be done, that at the end of the day nothing gets done.
As long as they've got you in here arguing with me over bull "you know what" , they've got you right where they want you. And you are too busy trying to win an internet argument to see it. But you carry on that Elon is blind. Well he isn't the only one.
And now. Here we are standing on the cusp of actually getting something done about this matter. and you want to sit there pecking away on your keyboard, arguing over bovine residue.
Again, do you want this matter resolved or not?
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Obviously I do.
In the meanwhile, we are talking about the topic as well as the conversation, offering our views on it.
I think it is also possible you genuinely misunderstood what a lot of us were saying about publicity and legal action. It was IMO your insistence that people stop taking this public that I think irked a lot of folk, much much more so than the idea of legal action. I think it would be beneficial for you to understand that difference, because now you seem to be repeating the notion that many people here were somehow against any kind of legal action. I don't think that's true. It was the combo of going silent and taking individual action (plus a genuine disagreement on when to take further action).
We still don't have a resolution to this. We don't know if this legal action will do it - or even if it will really commence. Maybe the publicity is enough and Tesla fixes this. Maybe it blows over. None of us knows what combination exactly unlocks a resolution, if any. But let's at least present each other's views accurately in the meanwhile, is what I'm saying.
If I have understood your correctly over this thread, you think publicity may hurt Tesla and may hurt your individual case - and is, anyway, ineffective. If I misunderstood something, feel free to correct. A lot of us feel publicity can help (of course no guarantee) and that any hurt from it is Tesla's own making, while we are reluctant to take on a large corporation alone with lawyers as soon as you would. Also, some of us feel that would be ineffective in making this right for the wider audience (something you don't disagree with, it seems, but do not care about).
trayloader
Member
In the end all comes down to ceramic parts and better wiring, i.e. much higher manufacturing prices.
For me it was clear from the beginning that everything beyond 900nm torque sooner per later leads to failing parts.Heck even the ICE industry was never able to ride this thin air.Whoever believed that was simply naive.
I´m just frustrated by how Elon over and over teased this illusion by shaving off seconds.
By his nature he will never admit failure instead we will all see Ludicrous being axed altogether.
Just like the ventilated seats and the rear console etc.
Parallel we will see ceramic being introduced within the next two years silently through the backdoor.
That´s his erratic nature.
For me it was clear from the beginning that everything beyond 900nm torque sooner per later leads to failing parts.Heck even the ICE industry was never able to ride this thin air.Whoever believed that was simply naive.
I´m just frustrated by how Elon over and over teased this illusion by shaving off seconds.
By his nature he will never admit failure instead we will all see Ludicrous being axed altogether.
Just like the ventilated seats and the rear console etc.
Parallel we will see ceramic being introduced within the next two years silently through the backdoor.
That´s his erratic nature.
Thank you @trayloader for the compelling analysis.
I could totally see a ceramic Maximum Plaid replacing Ludicrous and latter being left hanging with warts and all. The precedent certainly is there all through the history of the Model S Performance to try and fix what was missed in the previous version (while making even more promises that get broken again), while leaving old owners without a resolution. Heck, even the Performance disclaimer on tesla.com is a piece of that - old orders got no such disclaimer beforehand...
I could totally see a ceramic Maximum Plaid replacing Ludicrous and latter being left hanging with warts and all. The precedent certainly is there all through the history of the Model S Performance to try and fix what was missed in the previous version (while making even more promises that get broken again), while leaving old owners without a resolution. Heck, even the Performance disclaimer on tesla.com is a piece of that - old orders got no such disclaimer beforehand...
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Again, the record for a v1 car in the wild was 11.22 with the stock 21 inch tires and wheels and pano roof.
Honest P90D(L) Quarter Mile Performance
I would venture to guess that car was not at 100% SOC and max battery when it went off the line during that run. If those conditions were satisfied, the car was not optioned as a pano roof, I'm not seeing how a new wheel/tire package (grip/weigh/rolling resistance/aero optimized) and perhaps a weight reduction package can't address a 0.2 second difference. These are solutions Tesla can offer to address the deficiency, not necessarily a power increase.
It's not like it's a second off and it would be impossible for anything but a power increase to address.
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