Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[msnow]

Ive done the testing and sent all the data to tesla after a month I finally got that answer.... once launch mode is used to many times the cars power is reduced permanently. Changing modes makes no difference... the pack power is limited no matter what mode your in. What I posted upthread I requested they send me after a few long phone calls on the matter, there is no way to undo the change once the computer decides that limit has been reached it permanently limits the power of the pack. I was also told on the call that if I upgrade to the 100 the launch mode limit is removed permanently. I requested that in writing as I would hate to pay for the upgrade and receive the same limits again...

PM me, it won't let me PM you.

 

[Tech_Guy]

done!

 

[n2mb_racing]

Can we compile more on the max kW for each version of the battery and how much it is after being limited?

 

[n2mb_racing]

done!

Was your kW pre limit 510 and reduced to 480 kW?

 

[Tech_Guy]

Ah I see, I wasn't aware you already tested this in other modes, I just noted the Tesla rep's response that you quoted is inconsistent. Anyways having media or others contact Tesla for clarification may still help. They may walk back on this.

Ya believe me I tested this in all modes as I didnt want it to be true and I was convinced it was related to the 8.0 upgrade not some launch mode limit.... that was only revealed once they got back to me with the real answer....

 

[Tech_Guy]

Was your kW pre limit 510 and reduced to 480 kW?

yes went from 511KW with v3 1088... battery to 480KW after...

 

[Andyw2100]

Ah I see, I wasn't aware you already tested this in other modes, I just noted the Tesla rep's response that you quoted is inconsistent. Anyways having media or others contact Tesla for clarification may still help. They may walk back on this.

I agree it will be good to get clarification.

I just think you were putting too much weight on the precise wording that the Tesla rep had used. We probably thought a lot more about what each word meant, and the true meaning of what was being written, than the rep did.

Historically Tesla has not been great at communication, and this is just one more example of that.

Again, I agree that getting someone at Tesla to actually spell out what we know Tech_Guy has experienced is the first step to then, perhaps, getting Tesla to correct the situation.

 

[trayloader]

I guess they implemented it with 8.0.
Ingeneer or any other software crack might weigh in?

 

[NOLA_Mike]

I just think you were putting too much weight on the precise wording that the Tesla rep had used. We probably thought a lot more about what each word meant, and the true meaning of what was being written, than the rep did.

I'd be willing to bet that (especially in light of the recent settlement in Norway) email was vetted by Tesla's legal counsel before it was sent. If there's any ambiguity or otherwise I suspect it's on purpose.

Mike

 

[lolachampcar]

"once it happens there is no way to undo it" (paraphrasing)

Oh yes there is! You know Tesla COULD if they wanted to

 

[Tech_Guy]

One of my other fears is that Tesla is attempting to sandbag the P90DL V3 since it runs 0-60 in 2.6 and the 1/4 in 10.8 and by imposing this limit they make the P100DL look even better...

 

[NOLA_Mike]

One of my other fears is that Tesla is attempting to sandbag the P90DL V3 since it runs 0-60 in 2.6 and the 1/4 in 10.8 and by imposing this limit they make the P100DL look even better...

I don't think they gain anything by doing that since the P90DL is discontinued now - it's not like it will be stealing any future sales from the P100D. Or am I missing something?

Mike

 

[Garlan Garner]

According to Tesla email "The computer systems automatically track launch mode usage and continually estimate fatigue damage. Depending on how launch mode is used, the computer may eventually limit the available power during launch mode to protect the powertrain."

Does 1500 amps limitation exhibited only in launch mode? Can still more than 1500 amps be pulled if your car is NOT in the launch mode?

There ya go....Thanks.. Some technical info.

Anyone want to try and pull 1800 amps from their battery? Would anyone like to sign a wavier that says that "Tesla isn't liable for my car melting or catching on fire because I'm allowing Tesla to remove all power and/or current flow safety features"?

 

[Garlan Garner]

One of my other fears is that Tesla is attempting to sandbag the P90DL V3 since it runs 0-60 in 2.6 and the 1/4 in 10.8 and by imposing this limit they make the P100DL look even better...

I'm wrestling with that theory, however they don't have to worry about that now. I wonder how many P90DLs were sold....that Tesla would be really concerned about - as far as this topic is concerned.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I'd be willing to bet that (especially in light of the recent settlement in Norway) email was vetted by Tesla's legal counsel before it was sent. If there's any ambiguity or otherwise I suspect it's on purpose.

Mike

That could very well be the case. That's why I'm curious as to how Elon can tweet stuff as often as he does. It does not appear that those tweets get vetted by legal counsel...however I can't confirm my suspicions.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

That could very well be the case. That's why I'm curious as to how Elon can tweet stuff as often as he does. It does not appear that those tweets get vetted by legal counsel...however I can't confirm my suspicions.

LOL - I don't believe Elon's stuff is vetted beforehand. That's why some of them "disappear" after the fact.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I'm just perplexed. How many other things to do people buy that they don't like or care for?

It has nothing to do with whether the conversation is unpleasant or not. I was in full support of the rant that went on here before Tesla put that "skid plate" on the bottom of their cars as they were potentially catching on fire. That conversation was unpleasant and I admit that I contributed to the unpleasantness. I wasn't going to buy one or support Tesla, however when they fixed the issue I was willing to buy one.

I'm just not a fan of buying something from a company that I don't like - then complaining about them. I'm chuckling in unbelief as I typed that last sentence and the next one.
There are just so many more car options out there. No one is forced to buy a tesla.

@Andyw2100 already answered the not knowing part. The P90DL buyers did not know about this limit beforehand. Not buying is not an option when you did not and reasonably could not have known.

The second part is the relative impact. Boycotts aside, I would say very few products and/or companies on/off, yes/no decisions. There are shades of grey where customer feedback and conversation is one response.

You know perfectly well there are no other long range EVs available. Not all issues are reasons enough to forgo that. Some are just feedback.

 

[Dave EV]

Stories like this make me almost want to donate a new Leaf to a worthy family needing transportation. Good for the EV cause, a thumbs up to Nissan for doing right by performance buyers, and good for a family in need.

Don't do it. Nissan screwed over the vast majority of early LEAF owners with their fast degrading lithium batteries. It took a class-action lawsuit to get them to apply a 5-year 60k mile capacity warranty, but the warranty sucks for anyone who just misses the warranty period while being 98% as affected as the rest. For example, my LEAF lost enough capacity 2 months after 5 years - Nissan refused to provide any out-of-warranty assistance. When new, my LEAF would travel 40-50% farther than it does today, despite having less than 60k miles and being about 5.5 years old.

Another, quite significant, difference is that Nissan was completely open about what they were doing. Tesla has been, shall we say, less than completely open about this.

Nissan provided an update to 2011-12 LEAFs in 2013 supposedly to improve the accuracy of the capacity gauge among other things. What they failed to announce is that the update also significantly reduced the amount of regenerative braking the car allows thus affecting overall efficiency especially in city driving. This only gets worse and worse the more the battery ages.

I still have to wonder why Tesla would even allow 1600A if it only does so for 25 launches unless you disclose it. It only opens you up for drama like this which is completely avoidable. What other hidden launch limits are there? Actions like this make me question my Model 3 deposit.

 

[Tech_Guy]

only P cars have launch mode... non P cars are unaffected

 

[Ingineer]

Keep in mind, by the time the Tesla customer service people play the game of telephone between all the people in legal and finally make out to engineering and back, the information may get adulterated. I suspect the BMS watches for a certain current threshold over a certain time and then increments the counter. I doubt you have to use the launch mode specifically. The counter is stored in the EEPROM in the BMS. It could definitely be reset by a manual operation, but of course, this would instantly void any warranties, so I would only consider doing this on unsupported (salvage, etc) cars. With some analysis of the BMS code it may be possible to not only identify the exact trigger of the limits and also maybe there is a non-physical way to reset the counter. Again, for unsupported cars.