Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[lolachampcar]

Why not just take a breath and wait for Tesla to regroup figure out what exactly their software currently does and doesn't do, and what changes they might be contemplating, and answer the many emails and tweets we sent them with their specific information about what happens and what doesn't happen, and under what conditions. We need more facts.

bhz,
Tesla knows EXACTLY what their software does and does not do
Tesla knows exactly what they are contemplating
Tesla started off by providing information and some owners have indicated that trend has reversed

What makes you think, after rolling out software like this without notice, that Tesla wants to (1) disclose anything they are not forced to disclose or (2) change course after having set the course in the first place? I'm not trying to be rude here. I really am asking those two questions because I do not see a reason to change if there is not an uproar about it.


I agree we need more facts. I'm afraid that will only come from disassembly of the BMS code, discovery or the need to put out a customer driven PR fire.

 

[sorka]

I tweeted at all of them!

Can you post your tweets here so we can all

The written disclaimer on Tesla's website is much more generic and doesn't reference launch mode.
View attachment 210113

Which would be fine if it was permanently and forever limited. One reading that statement would reasonably conclude that under some circumstances that performance might be reduced temporarily but not forever.

 

[xborg]

bhz,
Tesla knows EXACTLY what their software does and does not do
Tesla knows exactly what they are contemplating
Tesla started off by providing information and some owners have indicated that trend has reversed

What makes you think, after rolling out software like this without notice, that Tesla wants to (1) disclose anything they are not forced to disclose or (2) change course after having set the course in the first place? I'm not trying to be rude here. I really am asking those two questions because I do not see a reason to change if there is not an uproar about it.


I agree we need more facts. I'm afraid that will only come from disassembly of the BMS code, discovery or the need to put out a customer driven PR fire.

I don't think we need more facts. We shouted, Tesla responded, they made an official statement. They've even put a disclaimer. They are saying that they can do whatever they want to our cars, including power reduction.
I don't think we are going to get more information from Tesla. This whole thing became like Apple iOS updates. In every free update, they offer some new features, but you lose some performance. In order to get the most from the update, you have to buy the newest and the greatest one. But the thing is, Tesla is releasing new models(every 6 months), quicker than Apple does, and this is not a $600 phone, this is an $100.000 asset.

 

[AWDtsla]

I don't think we need more facts. We shouted, Tesla responded, they made an official statement. They've even put a disclaimer. They are saying that they can do whatever they want to our cars, including power reduction.
I don't think we are going to get more information from Tesla. This whole thing became like Apple iOS updates. In every free update, they offer some new features, but you lose some performance. In order to get the most from the update, you have to buy the newest and the greatest one. But the thing is, Tesla is releasing new models(every 6 months), quicker than Apple does, and this is not a $600 phone, this is an $100.000 asset.

Not to turn this into an Android vs iOS battle, but iOS has never done something like this. More software needs more more resources to run, but the software does not explicitly cripple your device because of Apple's past engineering mistakes. On the whole every iOS release has been an improvement from the prior one. I've walked into an Apple store many times over the last 9 years with a hardware complaint and walked out with a brand new phone, under warranty.

 

[Walta]

I don't think we need more facts. We shouted, Tesla responded, they made an official statement. They've even put a disclaimer. They are saying that they can do whatever they want to our cars, including power reduction.
I don't think we are going to get more information from Tesla. This whole thing became like Apple iOS updates. In every free update, they offer some new features, but you lose some performance. In order to get the most from the update, you have to buy the newest and the greatest one. But the thing is, Tesla is releasing new models(every 6 months), quicker than Apple does, and this is not a $600 phone, this is an $100.000 asset.

Not counting the unethical way the power reduction seems to have been implemented.

Being that the power reduction is only pertinent to one owner so far, does require more data. Display the counters to owners. Let them drive their cars and see how quickly their driving style will trigger the reduction in power.

After we get reports from a number of owners on their counter increments.. it will become obvious the level of impact the counters will have on the majority of P90DL owners.

If it stays at one P90DL owner with reduced power? That would be big.

If it impacts all the P90DL owners? That would be BIGger.

 

[Tech_Guy]

They will know about this thread, especially as the Drive article links to it and they offered an official response.

Surely someone at Tesla could get their f@#$ing act together and give @Tech_Guy a call?!

It's pathetic really.

Agreed

You have some valid points. We only know of one confirmed case. The problem is to the lack of communication and lack of service to the affected owner. If this is something that could be fixed, why hasn't @Tech_Guy not received anything from Tesla regarding the issue?

He's been trying to get more information for quite some time. Tesla promised him they'd call yesterday. They didn't.

no more info yet they have lead me on since before the new year that id receive a call but haven't yet the last call date was yesterday will no call.

You have some valid points. We only know of one confirmed case. The problem is to the lack of communication and lack of service to the affected owner. If this is something that could be fixed, why hasn't @Tech_Guy not received anything from Tesla regarding the issue?

The lack of focus on determining exactly what circumstances have exactly what effects is mind boggling.

Just three months of use for @Tech_Guy ? And in that time period he triggered multiple counters ? Really? While the TRC cars didn't? And zero other reports? No one else?!

Something else is likely going on with his car. @Tech_Guy needs to get more info on his precise situation. Leave service order stating decreased power and see how they handle.

And we need to recognize that we need to increase our sample size beyond one -- 1! In order to have any real info on what is going on.

if you look at the thread on the Tesla Forum there is another reported Tesla, a model x that was purchased used with around 5000 miles its a P90DL that doesn't make ludicrous power though it was listed on his purchase sheet...

Heres his quote...

kinsman175 | January 8, 2017
Just reading about this now. I can confirm I can only get 420kw output for a brand new inventory X P90DL. Makes me sad since, yes I got a discount but the entirety of that discount would be eliminated by the $10k ludicrous charge which is not ... operating? Left an email with service center. Hmmm.

 

[stopcrazypp]

You have some valid points. We only know of one confirmed case. The problem is to the lack of communication and lack of service to the affected owner. If this is something that could be fixed, why hasn't @Tech_Guy not received anything from Tesla regarding the issue?

I'm thinking this is probably a case of them considering if they want to set a precedence for this. Tesla generally seems to prefer to do "one time" things for exceptional cases, but in this case Tech_Guy went very public, so it may set the false impression that Tesla will handle every power complaint the same way. So even if this was really a one off case, Tesla has to tread very carefully.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Can you post your tweets here so we can all


Which would be fine if it was permanently and forever limited. One reading that statement would reasonably conclude that under some circumstances that performance might be reduced temporarily but not forever.

I read it the same way too when this was mentioned. The message is generic enough that it could be referring to the temporary yellow limiter, which is well known in forums, but not on the main order page and someone can argue they were misled because they didn't know such limits would apply.

 

[Tech_Guy]

I'm thinking this is probably a case of them considering if they want to set a precedence for this. Tesla generally seems to prefer to do "one time" things for exceptional cases, but in this case Tech_Guy went very public, so it may set the false impression that Tesla will handle every power complaint the same way. So even if this was really a one off case, Tesla has to tread very carefully.

Actually I keept very quiet on this until December 19th in this thread, previously I had only disclosed this info privately to others. I first contacted Tesla about this issue at the end of September and to date still have no resolution... Tesla had plenty of time to do right by me privately if they wanted to... now I've owned my car longer with the power reduction then without...

Whats wrong about all of this is how long its taken Tesla to notify owners about this... Since they haven't notified anyone about these counters and or restrictions without some kind of enquiry, which would require prior knowledge about the issue to find out... The only prior knowledge came from my case, so luckily for the owners that read these forums they will have some idea of whats going on and what to expect....

 

[bhzmark]

Actually I keept very quiet on this until December 19th in this thread, previously I had only disclosed this info privately to others. I first contacted Tesla about this issue at the end of September and to date still have no resolution... Tesla had plenty of time to do right by me privately if they wanted to... now I've owned my car longer with the power reduction then without...

Whats wrong about all of this is how long its taken Tesla to notify owners about this... Since they haven't notified anyone about these counters and or restrictions without some kind of enquiry, which would require prior knowledge about the issue to find out... The only prior knowledge came from my case, so luckily for the owners that read these forums they will have some idea of whats going on and what to expect....

Did you ever schedule an appt with service regarding the problem of decreased power?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Actually I keept very quiet on this until December 19th in this thread, previously I had only disclosed this info privately to others. I first contacted Tesla about this issue at the end of September and to date still have no resolution... Tesla had plenty of time to do right by me privately if they wanted to... now I've owned my car longer with the power reduction then without...

Whats wrong about all of this is how long its taken Tesla to notify owners about this... Since they haven't notified anyone about these counters and or restrictions without some kind of enquiry, which would require prior knowledge about the issue to find out... The only prior knowledge came from my case, so luckily for the owners that read these forums they will have some idea of whats going on and what to expect....

I know you contacted earlier, but my impression is that only the upper chains (and corporate engineering) knew about this counter back then and only recently were service center people clued in (as well as other lower level people at corporate) by having it officially in their service system. So then your power complaint was probably just diagnosed as a generic power problem, up until it got escalated through the ladder enough until someone figured it had to do with the counter. Then that was when PR and legal got involved to see how to respond publicly and now they have still not figured out what they want to do with your car, now that the cat is out of the bag.

I'm not under the impression that as soon as they received your complaint that they already knew your complaint had to do with the counter (this is from the fact, that according to many accounts, most Tesla personnel are clueless about this and is just getting information at the same time as we are).

 

[andrewket]

In case you guys missed this:

This is the disclaimer that comes up when you activate the Lud+ Easter egg.

 

[u00mem9]

Not counting the unethical way the power reduction seems to have been implemented.

Being that the power reduction is only pertinent to one owner so far, does require more data. Display the counters to owners. Let them drive their cars and see how quickly their driving style will trigger the reduction in power.

After we get reports from a number of owners on their counter increments.. it will become obvious the level of impact the counters will have on the majority of P90DL owners.

If it stays at one P90DL owner with reduced power? That would be big.

If it impacts all the P90DL owners? That would be BIGger.

Doesn't matter. I wouldn't touch one of these cars now with a 10ft pole, and a used / CPO car with a 100ft pole. This absolutely is headed for class action land. Every P90DL owner just lost five figures or resale value overnight and it will be an open and shut case.

 

[Tech_Guy]

I know you contacted earlier, but my impression is that only the upper chains (and corporate engineering) knew about this counter back then and only recently were service center people clued in (as well as other lower level people at corporate) by having it officially in their service system. So then your power complaint was probably just diagnosed as a generic power problem, up until it got escalated through the ladder enough until someone figured it had to do with the counter. Then that was when PR and legal got involved to see how to respond publicly and now they have still not figured out what they want to do with your car, now that the cat is out of the bag.

I'm not under the impression that as soon as they received your complaint that they already knew your complaint had to do with the counter (this is from the fact, that according to many accounts, most Tesla personnel are clueless about this and is just getting information at the same time as we are).

My problem was not diagnosed as a generic power problem.. as a few people have tried to say this must be another issue,

The reply from Tesla was the launch mode counter had been triggered thus lowering my cars power which is the reply I posted from Tesla earlier in the thread...

"Thank you for your time. To recap our conversation, using launch mode places an increased stress on the entire powertrain accelerating aging and fatigue of various components. The computer systems automatically track launch mode usage and continually estimate fatigue damage. Depending on how launch mode is used, the computer may eventually limit the available power during launch mode to protect the powertrain. Note that this is a common strategy also employed in other high performance cars. As discussed, upgrading to the P100D ludicrous will remove this limit and will not be limited in the future as the P100D does not have this limit for launch mode."

basically uncovering this whole mess

and though I haven't gotten any further reply from Tesla yet recent data suggest the P100D also IS effected by this unlike my original reply suggests.

 

[Walta]

Doesn't matter. I wouldn't touch one of these cars now with a 10ft pole, and a used / CPO car with a 100ft pole. This absolutely is headed for class action land. Every P90DL owner just lost five figures or resale value overnight and it will be an open and shut case.

I totally understand.

I guess I am hanging on to the slim hope that somehow this isn't as bad as it seems. I truly have never enjoyed a car more than I do the P90DL. If nothing were to change with my car I would be so happy.

Please Tesla don't take my horse power from me for using it as it was designed to be used.

 

[Tech_Guy]

I totally understand.

I guess I am hanging on to the slim hope that somehow this isn't as bad as it seems. I truly have never enjoyed a car more than I do the P90DL. If nothing were to change with my car I would be so happy.

Please Tesla don't take my horse power from me for using it as it was designed to be used.

couldn't agree more but unfortunately its not the case at least currently your car is a ticking time bomb slowly counting down with each drive till you will loose power and performance without warning or notice

 

[u00mem9]

If nothing were to change with my car I would be so happy.

This. I'm in the same mindset on 7.1 Autopilot. So great, and now I have to fight like hell just to keep it.

 

[u00mem9]

In case you guys missed this: View attachment 210121

This is the disclaimer that comes up when you activate the Lud+ Easter egg.

Is this indicating that warranty coverage will be affected or there is some counter to be applied?!

 

[Walta]

couldn't agree more but unfortunately its not the case at least currently your car is a ticking time bomb slowly counting down with each drive till you will loose power and performance without warning or notice

They need a "sad" vote button. Nothing else fits.

 

[Walta]

Is this indicating that warranty coverage will be affected or there is some counter to be applied?!

The way I understand it from the response I received from my tesla SA is.
Tesla will warranty any drive train failures due to hard acceleration. However with the counters reduction in power they are hoping to stop the damage before they are saddled with a warranty issue.