Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

[NOLA_Mike]

What's that +1 launch.... or maybe it directly charges your credit card per each launch....

Seems to be a complete disconnect...

 

[Tech_Guy]

Seems to be a complete disconnect...

Maybe it uses your launch counter twice as fast lol. I hit my first limit in 6000 miles or 4 months now you can do it in 2 or 3000 miles lol

 

[OnlyDataNoBS]

I too would like to see clear before and after power output numbers from as many cars affected as possible.

Volleyball players are added to my ignore list.

Only interested in facts, logic, evidence and intelligent or otherwise interesting discussion. And minimal tolerance for FUD based speculation.

Since there are no clear reports from multiple owners with any details on any power cuts, was there any info from any Tesla rep on what exactly is supposed to happen and when? 1600 down to 1500? MBP no longer increases battery temp or triggers addl power? Any info at all on what the effect is supposed to be?

@Tech_Guy is one instance but it seems there may be other issues there.

Just trying to solicit accurate information on what exactly the consequences wld be and how it wld translate to real driving experience?

 

[JRP3]

amazing, this has turned into a discussion of a variant of quantum physics.
...the act of observing affects the observed....
or
"did it break? yes or no, if no, try again"

You don't seem to be following what is going on here. The only way to see what max power is would be to use max power. Each time you use max power it ticks the counter, moving you closer to max power reduction. Tesla never told buyers that max power would be artificially limited after a number of uses.

 

[davidc18]

I will hit the counter soon as I am sure I triggered the wot switch at least 10 times on my drive to work this am.

 

[lolachampcar]

Someone please summarize this thread so far. I can't go back to read 1300 posts.

What is actually known, vs speculation? Which cars are affected? All? Only model S? Only P carss? Only Ludicrous? Thanks.

Well, this is kind of a funky way of doing it but I've been referencing actual information reported on the issue in the OP of a thread on TM (cause I can continue to edit the OP there and keep all the links in one place).
So when does (or how long does it take for) a PxxxD to become a SxxxD? | Tesla Motors
This will let you read just specific posts where owners have reported what Tesla has told them.

 

[P85DEE]

Well, this is kind of a funky way of doing it but I've been referencing actual information reported on the issue in the OP of a thread on TM (cause I can continue to edit the OP there and keep all the links in one place).
So when does (or how long does it take for) a PxxxD to become a SxxxD? | Tesla Motors
This will let you read just specific posts where owners have reported what Tesla has told them.

Unbelievable.

Unless you're just trying to spread this crap all over the internet, why in earth would you do that?

It's bad enough it's in here. Why put it elsewhere until we can get some know me of grip on it, or Tesla has some time to make this right.

And then with a title like that.

That site is FULL of trolls. And full of people fishing for bad press on Tesla.

There is no point in putting this anywhere else on the internet than in here.

People in here saying that they're already concerned about the resale value of their cars.

And with that in mind, this matter should show up on as few web sites as possible until Tesla steps up and corrects it or at least has ample time to.

Sometimes I wonder some of the moves we make.

 

[diamond.g]

Seems to be a complete disconnect...

Yeah a good way to make things worse for someone. Is it correct to assume this mode is for the P100D only?

 

[NOLA_Mike]

Yeah a good way to make things worse for someone. Is it correct to assume this mode is for the P100D only?

As far as I can tell, Elon has only tweeted about this "extra performance" for the P100D w/Ludicrous.

When I finish my studies and get my doctorate in "Reading Between the Lines" I'll let you know...

 

[lolachampcar]

Yes P85DEE, let's make sure no other owners know about this. I most certainly would like to thank anyone at Tesla for knowingly keeping this information quiet and not putting anything out prior to the release or in the release notes for that matter......... You're upset because I put feedback from Tesla in a place where current and perspective Tesla owners can access it. You must have gone completely ballistic when the on line mags wrote about it.

As for Tesla stepping in and correcting something, they already have. They have pushed the DL system beyond their warranty set asides and have now "fixed" that problem. Job done.

I'm beginning to see why we disagree on a regular basis. We see things from completely different perspectives.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I hate to be a killjoy.

But what if "this and that part" which needed to be replaced after X launches turned out to be the battery pack or some other expensive part?

I figure whatever it is, it has to be expensive and a hassle to replace. Which is why they don't want to replace it for free under warranty in the first place.

Whatever it is, it could be subject to failure more than one time while the car is under warranty as well. Which would be another reason why they're trying to get out of the responsibility of replacing it. They don't want you coming back every few thousand miles for another free service of the same thing because you're driving your car hard.

Worse yet, what if "X" number of launches, turned out to be a lower case "x" number of launches, and your power ended up being cut less than a year and less than 10K miles after you had the car?

One guy says he's due to hit the limit at something less than 5K miles.

Tech _Guy has already hit it, and I think he bought that car around June or July.

You're no killjoy - and yes, I did consider that too. You are pointing out a very likely potential scenario why Tesla is going the limiter route and not the maintenance regime one.

My point remains:

If electric cars in general turn out to having wearable parts that require limiting after a certain period of use, those parts need to be designedto be replaceable and a maintenance regime implemented. That is the solution around the warranty as well. That is how it is done in ICEs and any long-term devices/investments you expect to use over a number of years. If it means replacing the part every 5K or even less, well, that is the cost of keeping a high-performance EV high-performance... limiting the car after 5K is much worse...

Now, how simple this would be to implement is another thing. And it would have a PR penalty Tesla might like to avoid. Tesla probably likes their high-performance, no maintenance PR. But they shouldn't keep it up if that is quickly becoming a lie... Really, the point stands: if there is use of the car that wears it out (which is completely understandable in itself), the long-term solution can't be to limit the car after certain use to avoid issues with that wear, but offer a solution to keep the car running through regular maintenance that is communicated to the customer pre-purchase.

If this can't be redesigned in a life-of-car manner, then the Ludicrous cars need a maintenance regime after a certain number of launches - implemented in a manner that allows such maintenance.

The other alternative is over-design and set the performance from the get go to be underneath that breaking limit, so it does not have to be limited later...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Maybe Tesla should call the update Ludicrous++ instead...

Those versed in programming might get the joke.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Yes P85DEE, let's make sure no other owners know about this. I most certainly would like to thank anyone at Tesla for knowingly keeping this information quiet and not putting anything out prior to the release or in the release notes for that matter.........

As for Tesla stepping in and correcting something, they already have. They have pushed the DL system beyond their warranty set asides and have now "fixed" that problem. Job done.

I'm beginning to see why we disagree on a regular basis. We see things from completely different perspectives.

A lot of people are concerned about their TSLA value and/or Tesla mission more than the ownership experience. That may or may not be the case here, but it does make for some vastly different perspectives and motivations (compared to regular automotive forum conversations).

Without the publicity I doubt Tesla will make this right. It has gone on long enough in silence. And letting owners know is the right thing anyway. I can not blame anyone for feeling like spreading the message is the thing to do.

 

[P85DEE]

Yes P85DEE, let's make sure no other owners know about this. I most certainly would like to thank anyone at Tesla for knowingly keeping this information quiet and not putting anything out prior to the release or in the release notes for that matter.........

I'm beginning to see why we disagree on a regular basis. We see things from completely different perspectives.

Yes, we do.

Spreading all over the internet is not the only way and arguably not even the "right" way to get this matter resolved.

It's unfortunate that you can't see that.

Give them time to do right by Tech_guy.

Make it known to your service center and manager, and the higher ups at Tesla that this is unacceptable.

Seek legal counsel if you feel that you need to.

But spreading this from internet site to internet site and cross linking posts, is about the least sensible thing I can think of to do in this situation.

There is no telling where else on the internet this is liable to show up next. Or even next week.

Consumer Reports, Edmunds, the list is endless.

But wherever it shows up next, you can bet your ass that wherever it shows up it will be in a distorted version which will be barely recognizable from the mess that we already know it is.

You don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Yes, we do.

Spreading all over the internet is not the only way and arguably not even the "right" way to get this matter resolved.

It's unfortunate that you can't see that.

Give them time to do right by Tech_guy.

Make it known to your service c mete and the higher ups at Tesla that this is unacceptable.

Seek legal counsel if you feel that you need to.

But spreading this from internet site to internet site and cross linking posts, is about the least sensible thing I can think of do in this situation.

Why do you think it is not the right way? I get it that you do, but your reasons are not clear?

I can see two perspectives publicity could be warranted:

1) Letting other owners know - this may be affecting them already and Tesla clearly isn't talking about it in public themselves, beyond vague disclaimer type of stuff. Helping your fellow owners out sound like the morally right thing to do, instead of watching in silence. No?

2) Publicity creates pressure on Tesla to act on this, while lack of publicity may discourage them from acting on it.

 

[lolachampcar]

I really do think it is as simple as an engineer mentioned they pulled 691 hp from the pack before the DL launch.
Elon promoted 691 hp at the launch.
Engineering delivered it over 18 months later.
Engineering got it wrong and needed the 100's flex interconnects to sustain the high current draws.
Engineering reached out and are taking it away if you are using it.

The calculus is that owners will be affected over a stretched out period of time and thus it will be a low level irritation capable of being ignored. Two hundred counters will not roll over on one day cause two hundred pissed off owners to get together and force a discussion. It will be dribs and drabs which can be placated with JB style blog posts.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I really do think it is as simple as an engineer mentioned they pulled 691 hp from the pack before the DL launch.
Elon promoted 691 hp at the launch.
Engineering delivered it over 18 months later.
Engineering got it wrong and needed the 100's flex interconnects to sustain the high current draws.
Engineering reached out and are taking it away if you are using it.

The calculus is that owners will be affected over a stretched out period of time and thus it will be a low level irritation capable of being ignored. Two hundred counters will not roll over on one day cause two hundred pissed off owners to get together and force a discussion. It will be dribs and drabs which can be placated with JB style blog posts.

...and morally absolutely terrible, of course, if so.

 

[msnow]

Unbelievable.

Unless you're just trying to spread this crap all over the internet, why in earth would you do that?

It's bad enough it's in here. Why put it elsewhere until we can get some know me of grip on it, or Tesla has some time to make this right.

And then with a title like that.

That site is FULL of trolls. And full of people fishing for bad press on Tesla.

There is no point in putting this anywhere else on the internet than in here.

People in here saying that they're already concerned about the resale value of their cars.

And with that in mind, this matter should show up on as few web sites as possible until Tesla steps up and corrects it or at least has ample time to.

Sometimes I wonder some of the moves we make.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. This stuff is on many of the most popular EV sites and I've seen tweets to Elon (so far unanswered). As we've seen, the SM's at the SvC's are now nervous and have scripted answers. Was your plan to just keep this our own personal dirty little secret?

 

[lolachampcar]

P85DEE,

One of the biggest differences between you and I is the idea of filing suit to solve problems.

Litigation is a very last resort for me.

Likewise, I try not to do things in my life where a public discussion of those actions would be embarrassing. For example, I often ask myself while considering a dubious aerobatic maneuver "how am I going to explain this to the FAA?". I find it keeps my lesser instincts in check.

 

[winfield100]

You don't seem to be following what is going on here. The only way to see what max power is would be to use max power. Each time you use max power it ticks the counter, moving you closer to max power reduction. Tesla never told buyers that max power would be artificially limited after a number of uses.

i am following whats going on here.
I have a more "mature" POV if you care to define it that way (or responsible or you pick a definition)
and experience with "breaking things"
"did it break?"
yes or no
if no, try again (and have it fixed for free)
(Mom, it broke, buy me another please......)
Thats my POV