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What happens if the SP is at $400 ? How much does one get back (1001.25 + $40 ?).

One would get 2.7788 shares which they could sell for $400.

I guess i should have been more clear on that. To my (limited) understanding of convertible bonds, the way it would work is at the maturity day (march 1st in this case) you either get your bonds converted to shares (2.7788 shares per bond) or you get the principal back ($1000 per bond) along with the semi annual interest payment (~$1.25). Getting 2.7788 shares per $1000 note amounts to a conversion rate of about $359.87. So you would choose to convert if the SP was above that, and you'd take the money if it was below. (Anyone know if that's automatic, or if you have to tell your broker that you want to convert?)

I believe you still get the interest payment if you convert, but at a 0.25% interest rate, its pretty inconseqential. So when I said that for your investment of $1006.75, you either get $1001.25 or 2.7788 shares, I meant that if Tesla goes down, you still walk away with your $1001. Your maximum loss is $5.5, or ~0.5%. Meanwhile, if Tesla goes up, you just convert to shares at an effective rate of ~$362 (1006/2.7788). So if it goes to 400, you get $1111.5 (400*2.7788) or a gain of 10.5%.

The point isn't really to make mad gains. If Tesla's going up you get roughly the same return. A little less, in fact. But if it goes down, you take almost no loss, because instead of converting to shares, you take the money.

The thing I don't understand is that taking away all the risk should be worth more than just 0.5%. So I can't figure out why the bonds are priced so low.
 
I guess i should have been more clear on that. To my (limited) understanding of convertible bonds, the way it would work is at the maturity day (march 1st in this case) you either get your bonds converted to shares (2.7788 shares per bond) or you get the principal back ($1000 per bond) along with the semi annual interest payment (~$1.25). Getting 2.7788 shares per $1000 note amounts to a conversion rate of about $359.87. So you would choose to convert if the SP was above that, and you'd take the money if it was below. (Anyone know if that's automatic, or if you have to tell your broker that you want to convert?)

Isn't a little more complicated than that? I thought you had to decide to convert or not in December, and that the conversion happened later in March exposing you to more risk. So the stock price could be high and you opt to convert, but then the price could tank by the time the conversion actually happens. (But my understanding is probably more limited than yours.)
 
They'll be paying out in cash straight up regardless of the sp. Convertibles are confusing at first. Holders of convertible debt are generally taking a de facto short position in the stock: they get more shares if the price is lower, less shares if the price is higher. But Musk has repeatedly said they will simply pay cash and no stock, which is good for TSLA shareholders bc no dilution.
 
Ok guys, I need a bit of help. I need someone to talk me out of what must be a bad idea. I looked into the convertible bonds. (Cusip 88160RAB7) this morning. I can't remember the time, but lets assume Tesla was trading at 350. They quoted me a price of 100.67. So each note would cost $1006.70. Which would return either $1001.25 in March or 2.7788 shares. I must be doing my math wrong, because that still seems stupidly cheap. I can't understand why I wouldn't want to sell all my shares and buy these bonds. It basically removes the downside risk, and leaves you fully exposed to the upside potential. And that's why I need help. Cuz no deal is that good. I must be missing something.

$1006.70 for 2.7788 shares is equivalent to a share price of $362.28. You can obviously buy shares cheaper than that. You're effectively paying an option premium of $7.97 per share. That's what you're paying for restricting your downside to $1.96 per share equivalent.

For downside protection, this is a better deal than buying shares + buying puts. For downside protection it's also a better deal than buying calls (but it has no leverage, whereas calls have leverage).

However, if you're not worried about a decline (I'm not) then buying stock outright is a better deal.

The convertible bond also does *not* leave you fully exposed to the upside potential. You will be forcibly cashed out in March: if you try to convert the bonds, Tesla has the option to pay out the cash equivalent of the shares instead of the actual shares. If you want to hold stock long term you will then have to re-buy after your bonds are cashed out, possibly at a worse price. Also it will start a new holding period, which may matter (short-term vs. long-term capital gains for US tax law).
 
- the fact that in the face of all that and more that TSLA has managed four back-to-back rises, ending the week $23.03 or 7% above its Monday close may be an indication that the investment world has begun to look at Tesla as a Flight to Quality aka Flight to Safety.
I'm going to gloat over the fact that I predicted more than a year ago that TSLA would be resistant to declines during a bear market, while other stocks wouldn't be. It's fun being proven right. I think you're describing a similar phenomenon.
 
One would get 2.7788 shares which they could sell for $400.

I guess i should have been more clear on that. To my (limited) understanding of convertible bonds, the way it would work is at the maturity day (march 1st in this case) you either get your bonds converted to shares (2.7788 shares per bond) or you get the principal back ($1000 per bond) along with the semi annual interest payment (~$1.25). Getting 2.7788 shares per $1000 note amounts to a conversion rate of about $359.87. So you would choose to convert if the SP was above that, and you'd take the money if it was below. (Anyone know if that's automatic, or if you have to tell your broker that you want to convert?)
You've basically got it correct, except that with *these* convertible bonds, Tesla is allowed to pay you cash equivalent to the number of shares you'd get (based on an average stock price for some number of days immediately before maturity) rather than giving you the actual stock.

Also, conversion isn't automatic; you have to tell your broker. *Also*, there's a deadline for deciding whether to convert, and it's well before the maturity date.

I believe you still get the interest payment if you convert, but at a 0.25% interest rate, its pretty inconseqential.
I believe you don't get that last interest payment if you convert. I read through this carefully though I may be misremembering.

So when I said that for your investment of $1006.75, you either get $1001.25 or 2.7788 shares, I meant that if Tesla goes down, you still walk away with your $1001. Your maximum loss is $5.5, or ~0.5%. Meanwhile, if Tesla goes up, you just convert to shares at an effective rate of ~$362 (1006/2.7788). So if it goes to 400, you get $1111.5 (400*2.7788) or a gain of 10.5%.

The point isn't really to make mad gains. If Tesla's going up you get roughly the same return. A little less, in fact. But if it goes down, you take almost no loss, because instead of converting to shares, you take the money.
This is correct.

The thing I don't understand is that taking away all the risk should be worth more than just 0.5%. So I can't figure out why the bonds are priced so low.
This is a... drumroll... arbitrage opportunity.

Let me explain the arbitrage. Purchase, say, a million dollars worth of the bonds, for $1,006,700. This can be converted to 2778.8 shares. Sell 27 call option contracts expiring Feburary 19 (or, actually, before whatever the conversion deadline date is for the bonds), for a strike price of $370. This obligates you to sell 2700 shares of TSLA for $370 if the guy on the other side wants you to. These are trading at $31.50, so you receive $85,050 up front.

If Tesla is trading below $359.87 at expiration, you cash out the bond for $1,001,250, and the calls expire -- your gain is 1,001,250 - 1,006,700 + $85050 = $79,650.

If Tesla is trading between $359.87 and $370 at expiration, the bond converts, but the calls expire -- you get 2778.9 shares of TSLA for an effective price of $362.28. Your worst-case loss here is to sell these immediately at $359.87, realizing $1000042.74. So your net gain is 1,000,042 - 1,006,700 + 85050 = $78,392.

If Tesla is trading above $370 at expiration, the bond converts and the call executes. You get 2778.8 shares of Tesla; you deliver 2700 of them to satisfy the call, and sell the remaining 78.8 (at a worst-case price of $370). So you receive $1,028,156 from the sales, and your net gain is 1,028,156 - 1,006,700 + 85050 = $106506.

I believe this might be able to be done with a call with a strike of $350 or $360 for a larger arbitrage proftit, but I worked out the math for $370; there's extra cases in the $360 case and more in the $350 case, and there may be one with some serious risk, I didn't go through them all.

There's also the risk of timing mismatches; not being able to match up the trade timing and facing a large move against you between the stock conversion and the sale of the stock (when it's not called away) but these can probably be kept below the arbitrage profit minimum.
 
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I'm going to gloat over the fact that I predicted more than a year ago that TSLA would be resistant to declines during a bear market, while other stocks wouldn't be. It's fun being proven right. I think you're describing a similar phenomenon.
Those wise words stuck with me and made a lot of sense at the time and still does. That is one of a few reasons I am now 100% Tesla LEAPs. I'm not happy with my situation but at least I have avoided the recent pain of having a diversified portfolio!
 
$1006.70 for 2.7788 shares is equivalent to a share price of $362.28. You can obviously buy shares cheaper than that. You're effectively paying an option premium of $7.97 per share. That's what you're paying for restricting your downside to $1.96 per share equivalent.

For downside protection, this is a better deal than buying shares + buying puts. For downside protection it's also a better deal than buying calls (but it has no leverage, whereas calls have leverage).

However, if you're not worried about a decline (I'm not) then buying stock outright is a better deal.

The convertible bond also does *not* leave you fully exposed to the upside potential. You will be forcibly cashed out in March: if you try to convert the bonds, Tesla has the option to pay out the cash equivalent of the shares instead of the actual shares. If you want to hold stock long term you will then have to re-buy after your bonds are cashed out, possibly at a worse price. Also it will start a new holding period, which may matter (short-term vs. long-term capital gains for US tax law).
Never seen a more clear and succinct explanation of convertibles!
 
Those wise words stuck with me and made a lot of sense at the time and still does. That is one of a few reasons I am now 100% Tesla LEAPs. I'm not happy with my situation but at least I have avoided the recent pain of having a diversified portfolio!
Me too! In all fairness I still hold a few shares of TSLA in Tax free but everything else is 100% leaps
As an aside got into a $100 bet with Anne Boleyn today. She thinks Tesla will be $410 a share November 17, 2019 and $440 a share by November 17, 2020 where as I think that tsla be $700 a share by this time in 2019 and $1000 a share in November 2020

Let’s see who wins
 
They'll be paying out in cash straight up regardless of the sp. Convertibles are confusing at first. Holders of convertible debt are generally taking a de facto short position in the stock: they get more shares if the price is lower, less shares if the price is higher. But Musk has repeatedly said they will simply pay cash and no stock, which is good for TSLA shareholders bc no dilution.
This makes total sense because it is extremely unlikely that Tesla will be trading at anything below $400 a share by March 2019 so there is absolutely no point of paying back the convertible’s insurance instead of cash
 
- the fact that in the face of all that and more that TSLA has managed four back-to-back rises, ending the week $23.03 or 7% above its Monday close may be an indication that the investment world has begun to look at Tesla as a Flight to Quality aka Flight to Safety.
That's because TSLA lost a lot more on Monday.

If you compare to last Friday close, TSLA is still a bit up compared to NASDAQ, but not by that much : up 1.9% vs down 1.2%.
 
Well, consider the following:

  • +1.9 + I-1.2I = 3.1% That's no winning lottery ticket, but it is far more than it takes for an institutional investor to be extremely satisfied. They live and die by whether they do or don't outperform the indices.
  • In a week where much of NASDAQ seemed to be stuck in Paradise, CA, that a high-profile name which had had a bad stumble on Monday still managed to shine the rest of the week in the face of what was happening all around it is very, very telling.

My opinion.
 
+1.9 + I-1.2I = 3.1% That's no winning lottery ticket, but it is far more than it takes for an institutional investor to be extremely satisfied. They live and die by whether they do or don't outperform the indices.
Absolutely. After the Q3 earnings, TSLA has been bullish - only being pulled down by the market. I bet if the market was bullish, TSLA would have reached $400 by now.

That's why I've not rolled my J19 calls yet. But I'm coming to a point where I'd have to roll to not lose the gains made. Currently my calls are worth the same as they were on Oct 29th when the SP was 335, because of time & IV decay.
 
Absolutely. After the Q3 earnings, TSLA has been bullish - only being pulled down by the market. I bet if the market was bullish, TSLA would have reached $400 by now.

That's why I've not rolled my J19 calls yet. But I'm coming to a point where I'd have to roll to not lose the gains made. Currently my calls are worth the same as they were on Oct 29th when the SP was 335, because of time & IV decay.
I'm trying to decide whether to roll my Jan 19 short puts out, but I really don't want to realize the taxes this year (rather realize them next year) so I may wait for near-expiry. Nice thing about the short puts is time & IV decay are both on my side. (Need a lot of capital to back them though.)
 
nov16chart.JPG

Friday was yet another weak day for macros as TSLA outperformed the NASDAQ and most other tech stocks. Good news that likely affected the trading was a revelation that an email from Elon to Tesla employees spoke of a goal of raising M3 output to 7k/wk by November 28. Although Tesla has missed some other aspirational goals and could miss this one as well, the takeway is that some major bottlenecks have been removed and Elon sees a path for reaching 1k/day M3 production this month. If that's accomplished, it means hitting the 2018 end of year goal more than a month early and setting up Q4 to produce some very impressive numbers. If we see a substantial ramp over the next couple weeks, expect some positive pressure to push the SP upwards.


nov16nasgood.png

The NASDAQ closed slightly in the red today. Notice that TSLA trading included peaks near the 10:40am, 12:45pm, and 3:10ish peaks of the NASDAQ. The difference between the two was that the second NASDAQ peak was as high as the first and the third NASDAQ peak was the highest of all, but with TSLA the 2nd and 3rd were muted (by short-selling I suspect). A robust 58% of TSLA selling by shorts backs up suspicions of manipulations.

nov16maxpain1.png

Nonetheless, TSLA broke from the NASDAQ's influence in the final minutes of market trading to close above 354. This rise taking place in the final minutes on a Friday before options close, I referenced a site that showed volume of option trading (sorry I didn't get the open interest before it disappeared) and I noticed lots of puts being traded at 350 and lots of calls at 355. A close between 350 and 355 would serve the sellers of these options, so perhaps that's our explanation for that spirited close.

nov16shorts.png

volumebot.com revealed that 57.75% of TSLA selling was tagged as "short" today, a high number suggesting that shorts were doing a fair number of manipulations to minimize the climb of TSLA today

nov16tech.png

Looking at the tech chart, you can see that Monday's big dip has been more than compensated with Tuesday-Friday's climbs. TSLA has now reached a price we haven't seen since early August when the privatization discussions were ongoing. One tendency we've seen with the slower climb in recent weeks is that TSLA will be unable to hold some resistance levels such as 348, especially when it has been a long climb that day to reach the resistance, but the upward pressure on this stock is substantial enough that TSLA ultimately breaks through and marches higher.

Overall, TSLA's recovery this week from Monday's holiday dip suggests that the short-seller dream that TSLA has reached the top of its trading range and heading down is just a dream at this point. Further, those shorts who are the kill-Tesla types would love to see TSLA remain below 360 so that they can keep their talking point of March debt repayment concerns going, but truthfully that issue really did die when the Q3 ER's cash flow numbers were announced. The prospects of 7k/week M3 before the end of November should continue to fuel a climb, as long as production shows increases and macros don't become too negative. The upside potential is very substantial if 4Q numbers stay on track or surprise to the high side with this new potential burst in M3 production. Then add the Energy side ramping up in 2019, solar roof going into serious production, and autopilot likely taking a big leap forward in a few months when the 10X hardware appears. It's a great time to own this stock.

For the week, TSLA closed at 354.31, up 3.80 from last Friday's 350.51. The past four weeks have included climbs of 70.90 , 15.51 , 4.10 and 3.80, respectively. Have a great weekend.

Conditions:
* Dow up 124 (0.49%)
* NASDAQ down 11 (0.15%)
* TSLA 354.31, up 5.87 (1.68%)
* TSLA volume 7.0M shares
* Oil 56.68, 0 (0%) Saturday #s
* Percent of TSLA selling by shorts: 57.75%
 
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Very helpful info. Thanks neroden! Do you know where to find full details of these Tesla bonds? Tried to google around but found nothing.

You've basically got it correct, except that with *these* convertible bonds, Tesla is allowed to pay you cash equivalent to the number of shares you'd get (based on an average stock price for some number of days immediately before maturity) rather than giving you the actual stock.
Do you know how many days exactly for the March, 2019 convertible? Any it's "before maturity" but not "before the date when bondholder makes decision to convert", right?

Also, conversion isn't automatic; you have to tell your broker. *Also*, there's a deadline for deciding whether to convert, and it's well before the maturity date.
For the March, 2019 convertible what is the exact time window for bondholder to decide?
 
Very helpful info. Thanks neroden! Do you know where to find full details of these Tesla bonds? Tried to google around but found nothing.


Do you know how many days exactly for the March, 2019 convertible? Any it's "before maturity" but not "before the date when bondholder makes decision to convert", right?


For the March, 2019 convertible what is the exact time window for bondholder to decide?

Take a look at this post from @brian45011 :

"Prior to the close of business on the business day immediately preceding December 1, 2018, in the case of the 2019 notes, or December 1, 2020, in the case of the 2021 notes (each, a “Free Conversion Date”)...
On or after the applicable Free Conversion Date until the close of business on the second scheduled trading day immediately preceding the applicable maturity date, holders may convert any or all of their notes at any time."

Up to two days past the maturity date.