Performance Package on Performance Model

[Zaphod]

Yeah, that crossed my mind... just trying to come up with alternatives. I'm not actually arguing that it isn't a software lock to entice people to drop more cash.

On the other hand, who knows if the 18" winter wheel package information was correct... I mean, the range and staggering stupidity of answers people get from front line Tesla staff knows no bounds and the words "I don't know" seem to be missing from their customer service vocabulary.

What kills me is that the core of this whole conversation, whether upgraded brakes are exclusive to the Performance Upgrade package or if there's some extra upgrade over stock performance or whatever, can only be answered by Tesla (up until people start taking delivery, of course)... yet, their front line staff are so poorly trained/informed that they don't really have answers.

Based on the verbiage in the design studio, one would have to assume the performance brakes are exclusive to the performance upgrade package. Otherwise, what would the point of getting the upgrade? $5k for spoiler, aluminum pedals and slight top speed increase? Doubtful...

 

[Petra]

Based on the verbiage in the design studio, one would have to assume the performance brakes are exclusive to the performance upgrade package. Otherwise, what would the point of getting the upgrade? $5k for spoiler, aluminum pedals and slight top speed increase? Doubtful...

Brakes aren't listed in the bullet point features section for the package (despite being the reason to buy the package if upgraded brakes are exclusive to the package), they're only mentioned in the caption below the photo of the 20" wheels, and the "performance brake calipers" wording is oddly specific (you don't just upgrade calipers and leave the rotors the same... I mean, you can, but that's silly... unless stock performance already comes with larger rotors and this changes from 4 to 6 piston calipers or something) and leads me to think they're referring to "performance red" or something like that. I mean, F80 and E90 M3 brakes fit inside 18" wheels... so I doubt wheel size has anything to do with it. Also, the package pricing is more in line with what Tesla charged for the 20" wheels plus what they would likely charge for the stick-ons and software unlock, less a package discount--you forgot about the 20" wheels and PS4S tires in your list.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I'm not arguing with you I'm correcting your errors of fact, and explaining to you the info you claimed we "don't know" is literally written on the side of the tire.

And thus your "explanation" from whoever you supposedly spoke to makes literally no factual sense because of the math you initially dismissed and then claimed you understood but don't appear to understand how it contradicts you.




And we've already explained that the given explaination is factually nonsense based on known specs and math.

Therefore either the guy you spoke to:

1) Lied to you.
or
2) Didn't know or understand the actual reason for the speed difference and misrepresented it by accident or ignorance to you.
or
3) Said something you heard or understood incorrectly.


As I explained, given the facts we have right now, your explanation is impossible, and I listed the only 2 possible ones for you.

One of them, the far more likely one, is a software limit.


Now- if further facts nobody has given come to light (say- they somehow get a special tire for the 18" P wheels that's not rated to 155 for some weird reason) then another possible reason would exist. But that's not consistent with currently known facts.

And your "tire size" bit is complete nonsense directly contradicted by basic math.



Your suggestion that Elon was the one you spoke to is even less credible than the explanation you're trying to claim you were given

wow. you spent a lot of useless time on that.

You are not correcting ME. Why can't you understand that?

My tire size bit? My tire size bit? Please refer to it correctly. Its Tesla's statement. Call them and tell them that they are wrong.

Call Tesla.....its their statement. not mine. If you care so much....CALL THEM and tell them they are wrong. Correct THEM.

I'm not suggesting calling them to get information. Call them and train all of their sales people as to what to say if its that big a deal to you.
Otherwise...….. Are you kidding me?

If its that important for you to be right - CALL THEM and fix it. You aren't going to change their statement by chatting with ME.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Based on the verbiage in the design studio, one would have to assume the performance brakes are exclusive to the performance upgrade package. Otherwise, what would the point of getting the upgrade? $5k for spoiler, aluminum pedals and slight top speed increase? Doubtful...

It would be nice if Tesla would make it clear and not leave that fact up to assumptions.

 

[ℬête Noire]

What kills me is that the core of this whole conversation, whether upgraded brakes are exclusive to the Performance Upgrade package or if there's some extra upgrade over stock performance or whatever, can only be answered by Tesla (up until people start taking delivery, of course)... yet, their front line staff are so poorly trained/informed that they don't really have answers.

It makes so much more sense when you realize that this whole price packaging scheme was almost certainly thrown together over the last week. The yhave thousands of employees to push this info out to. Even in an stable, established organization with good communication channels that's a tall over. Here you've got Tesla that's large, growing quickly, flexing in structure (basically constant re-org), and doesn't have a history of strong intra-company communications. Also their sales staff has very poor discipline on keeping what they tell customers 100% accurate.

Small wonder it's tough to get any meaningful answer out of Tesla CS right now.

 

[ZeroRider]

Based on the verbiage in the design studio, one would have to assume the performance brakes are exclusive to the performance upgrade package. Otherwise, what would the point of getting the upgrade? $5k for spoiler, aluminum pedals and slight top speed increase? Doubtful...

Happy to put this to rest as I have confirmed this info with Tesla directly. The much beefier performance brakes are only included with the performance package. I have also confirmed that the front rotors/calipers are so large that they cannot be fitted inside 18" wheels (it was mentioned that 19s could accommodate them, but just barely!). In addition to the performance brakes there are also "chassis enhancements" (sportier suspension tune possibly?).

While it's fantastic news that the Performance Model 3 is the first production Tesla which has in fact been engineered/tuned/tested to be a serious track-worthy and class-beating performance vehicle, I agree with everyone that it's really weird and frustrating from a customer perspective that Tesla does such a poor job communicating all these relevant details. Anyway, after a long and detailed conversation with someone whose in-the-know at Tesla, I upgraded from standard AWD to the full on Performance with Performance package. Based on what I've learned, if you're someone who truly appreciates a phenomenal driving experience (and has the means), I highly suggest going for it. You'll know where the extra money went

 

[Knightshade]

wow. you spent a lot of useless time on that.

Not really. The stuff I'm correcting you on is pretty common knowledge.

You are not correcting ME. Why can't you understand that?

I mean, I am though. You can tell because I keep quoting you before correcting you

My tire size bit? My tire size bit? Please refer to it correctly.

I did.

you claimed we "don't know" the sidewall height.

That's factually untrue.

We clearly know it. It's written on the side of the tire.

It's one of the facts I had to correct you on. Not Tesla.

Just like I had to correct you on you claiming the math didn't matter, when that was literally the only thing that did matter in that discussion.

These are your replies to people trying to correct your claims about what Tesla said. They explained why what you claim they said was wrong.

You then tried to defend those incorrect claims yourself with additional, factually incorrect, claims.

Which we keep correcting you on.

If you don't like people pointing out that you are saying incorrect things, try not saying incorrect things maybe? Blaming others for your mistakes isn't a good look

 

[Garlan Garner]

Not really. The stuff I'm correcting you on is pretty common knowledge.



I mean, I am though. You can tell because I keep quoting you before correcting you




I did.

you claimed we "don't know" the sidewall height.

That's factually untrue.

We clearly know it. It's written on the side of the tire.

It's one of the facts I had to correct you on. Not Tesla.

Just like I had to correct you on you claiming the math didn't matter, when that was literally the only thing that did matter in that discussion.


If you don't like people pointing out that you are saying incorrect things, try not saying incorrect things maybe? Blaming others for your mistakes isn't a good look

Have fun.....lol

 

[Knightshade]

Happy to put this to rest as I have confirmed this info with Tesla directly. The much beefier performance brakes are only included with the performance package. I have also confirmed that the front rotors/calipers are so large that they cannot be fitted inside 18" wheels (it was mentioned that 19s could accommodate them, but just barely!). In addition to the performance brakes there are also "chassis enhancements" (sportier suspension tune possibly?).

While it's fantastic news that the Performance Model 3 is the first production Tesla which has in fact been engineered/tuned/tested to be a serious track-worthy and class-beating performance vehicle, I agree with everyone that it's really weird and frustrating from a customer perspective that Tesla does such a poor job communicating all these relevant details. Anyway, after a long and detailed conversation with someone whose in-the-know at Tesla, I upgraded from standard AWD to the full on Performance with Performance package. Based on what I've learned, if you're someone who truly appreciates a phenomenal driving experience (and has the means), I highly suggest going for it. You'll know where the extra money went

That would indeed be fantastic news... though pretty weird they wouldn't mention an entire different suspension when people are making their buying decision.

Who is the in-the-know source that gave you the info directly from Tesla?

 

[SarahsDad]

I would caution those who claim to have definitive information just because they’ve confirmed it with “Tesla”.

I was at our local service center last month to see the Model 3 in person. I asked the employee showing me the car when the Performance model might be announced. He told me “definitely not before the end of the year”, explaining that it would cannibalize existing Model S sales. He sounded pretty sure of himself.

The Performace Model 3 was announced the next week. Caveat Emptor.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I would caution those who claim to have definitive information just because they’ve confirmed it with “Tesla”.

I was at our local service center last month to see the Model 3 in person. I asked the employee showing me the car when the Performance model might be announced. He told me “definitely not before the end of the year”, explaining that it would cannibalize existing Model S sales. He sounded pretty sure of himself.

The Performace Model 3 was announced the next week. Caveat Emptor.

Where would you suggest the best information about Tesla's come from?

 

[Glamisduner]

Im trying to figure it what to order. If they offered a white interior for the awd if just get that...

But now I'm thinking of getting the performance version without the performance package. But I have to wonder if i will kick myself later. Brake upgrades are not cheap and i would imagine they are using larger rotors that won't for inside the 18s.

Also feels kinda bad to get stuck with aero wheels on it

I could care less about the spoiler and higher top speed.

I'd have to sacrifice autopilot to get the rims and brakes...

 

[Knightshade]

Im trying to figure it what to order. If they offered a white interior for the awd if just get that...

But now I'm thinking of getting the performance version without the performance package. But I have to wonder if i will kick myself later. Brake upgrades are not cheap and i would imagine they are using larger rotors that won't for inside the 18s.

Also feels kinda bad to get stuck with aero wheels on it

I could care less about the spoiler and higher top speed.

I'd have to sacrifice autopilot to get the rims and brakes...

Are you planning to drive the car on a race track with any frequency? Or in the chase scene of a Bourne film?

Because if not the bigger brakes will do literally nothing for you outside of looks.

 

[Petra]

Happy to put this to rest as I have confirmed this info with Tesla directly. The much beefier performance brakes are only included with the performance package. I have also confirmed that the front rotors/calipers are so large that they cannot be fitted inside 18" wheels (it was mentioned that 19s could accommodate them, but just barely!). In addition to the performance brakes there are also "chassis enhancements" (sportier suspension tune possibly?).

While it's fantastic news that the Performance Model 3 is the first production Tesla which has in fact been engineered/tuned/tested to be a serious track-worthy and class-beating performance vehicle, I agree with everyone that it's really weird and frustrating from a customer perspective that Tesla does such a poor job communicating all these relevant details. Anyway, after a long and detailed conversation with someone whose in-the-know at Tesla, I upgraded from standard AWD to the full on Performance with Performance package. Based on what I've learned, if you're someone who truly appreciates a phenomenal driving experience (and has the means), I highly suggest going for it. You'll know where the extra money went

You'll have to excuse my extreme skepticism, but a big brake kit and chassis/suspension(?) enhancements hidden away in a $5k package of bling? Because, yes, let's put things people actually want into a seemingly worthless add-on package and not tell them, aside from an unclear note below a photo of wheels. It also contradicts much of the other, also contradictory, information people have gotten from "Tesla directly." I can't help but think that your person "in-the-know" was just a really convincing typical Tesla point of contact.

Where would you suggest the best information about Tesla's come from?

At this point? Elon via Twitter, an update to the configuration site, or some sort of official statement of clarification.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Im trying to figure it what to order. If they offered a white interior for the awd if just get that...

But now I'm thinking of getting the performance version without the performance package. But I have to wonder if i will kick myself later. Brake upgrades are not cheap and i would imagine they are using larger rotors that won't for inside the 18s.

Also feels kinda bad to get stuck with aero wheels on it

I could care less about the spoiler and higher top speed.

I'd have to sacrifice autopilot to get the rims and brakes...

I was in the same boat as you. I would have gotten the AWD with white interior if it was available but instead opted for the Performance without the Performance package. I don't plan on tracking the car. Maybe I'll autocross it a couple times but a 3800 pound car is really not designed for that. I plan on getting wider aftermarket 18" wheels. The 235 width tires on the Performance package seem undersized to me. If the brakes on the regular performance are inadequate (I've warped my fair share of brakes!) there is already a company selling aftermarket front brakes that are track proven.

 

[timk225]

My math says otherwise

View attachment 313029

I math'd it out. 17,900 motor rpms divided by the motor to axle 9 to 1 gearing (also in the manual) equals a maximum axle and wheel speed of 1988 rpms. 1988 rpms divided by 766 rpm per mile of the tires equals 2.595. 2.595 times 60 (meaning 60 mph if the wheels turn 766 rpm) equals 155 mph.

So gearing-wise, it is capable of 155 mph, and any lower speed it is limited to is done in software. It is also rev-limited to 155 as a result, unless the 9 to 1 gearing is changed.

 

[Glamisduner]

Are you planning to drive the car on a race track with any frequency? Or in the chase scene of a Bourne film?

Because if not the bigger brakes will do literally nothing for you outside of looks.

I thought there factory brakes were already burning up on the rwd models?

I wish the performance version had the 19s by default. i really just want the white interior...

 

[Garlan Garner]

You'll have to excuse my extreme skepticism, but a big brake kit and chassis/suspension(?) enhancements hidden away in a $5k package of bling? Because, yes, let's put things people actually want into a seemingly worthless add-on package and not tell them, aside from an unclear note below a photo of wheels. It also contradicts much of the other, also contradictory, information people have gotten from "Tesla directly." I can't help but think that your person "in-the-know" was just a really convincing typical Tesla point of contact.


At this point? Elon via Twitter, an update to the configuration site, or some sort of official statement of clarification.

Elon Musk on Twitter

This is an example of a tweet that is no longer relevant because you can get a performance version without red brake calipers. We NOW have to buy the performance upgrade of the performance version.
That's why I called Tesla over and over because this recent tweet on May 26th is out of the window.
No matter though. I'm staying all buttons checked soo....whatever they make...I'm buying it.

 

[Petra]

Elon Musk on Twitter

This is an example of a tweet that is no longer relevant because you can get a performance version without red brake calipers.

My point was that things have clearly changed since then and new relevant information could be provided...

 

[Daniel in SD]

I thought there factory brakes were already burning up on the rwd models?

Only on the track. How often do you make multiple stops in a row from 100+mph?