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PG&E discontinuing EV-A rate

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That is why they are called Pacific Graft and Extortion!

One reason (of many) I am adding more solar panels by the end of the year.

For comparison purposes I am tracking the E1 Rates as well. Over the past 10 years the increase was more than double (6.62% annual increase) for the Tier 1 Rate. The "average" rate as calculated by PG&E on the tariff schedule only increased a modest 3.75 annual rate.

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One reason (of many) I am adding more solar panels by the end of the year.

For comparison purposes I am tracking the E1 Rates as well. Over the past 10 years the increase was more than double (6.62% annual increase) for the Tier 1 Rate. The "average" rate as calculated by PG&E on the tariff schedule only increased a modest 3.75 annual rate.

View attachment 462572
Unfortunately I’m maxed out on how many panels I can install.
 
One reason (of many) I am adding more solar panels by the end of the year.

For comparison purposes I am tracking the E1 Rates as well. Over the past 10 years the increase was more than double (6.62% annual increase) for the Tier 1 Rate. The "average" rate as calculated by PG&E on the tariff schedule only increased a modest 3.75 annual rate.

View attachment 462572

Do you have to switch over to EV2 if you add more panels? I debated adding more panels, but once I have to switch over to EV2 more panels won't really help much.
 
Do you have to switch over to EV2 if you add more panels? I debated adding more panels, but once I have to switch over to EV2 more panels won't really help much.
The other option would be to add battery. That would cutdown on the late afternoon/evening energy pull from the grid. If the battery can get you through at least midnight, then you'd never pull expensive energy.
 
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Do you have to switch over to EV2 if you add more panels? I debated adding more panels, but once I have to switch over to EV2 more panels won't really help much.

As I am an existing NEM2, I believe I am still grandfathered. Per the Page 1 of the EV rate schedule below.

Pursuant to D.17-01-006, as revised by D. 17-02-017 and D. 17-10-018, for grandfathered service, certain solar customers will be allowed to continue service on Rate A of this schedule. Specifically, solar customers that interconnected by December 16, 2016, and elected service under Schedule EV prior to July 31, 2017, are allowed to retain service under this schedule for five years after issuance of the permission to operate, but no later than July 31, 2022. In addition, pursuant to D. 16-01-044, net energy metering customers that interconnected after December 15, 2016 and elected service on Rate Option A of this rate schedule may also continue service on this rate schedule for a period of 5 years from the date the customer commenced service on the NEM 2.0 rate, but no later than July 1, 2024.

I am subject to the last sentence as my interconnect (PTO) was February 09, 2017. There is nothing about losing grandfathering status above. At worst case, I could be subject to the following PG&E EV FAQ.

I AM A CURRENT EV-A CUSTOMER IN THE PROCESS OF GOING SOLAR, CAN I REMAIN ON THE EV-A RATE?

Current EV-A customers must submit their interconnection application by November 30th, 2019 to remain the EV-A rate. If the application is submitted in time but PTO is not received prior to November 2019, customers will be transitioned to EV2-A, and returned to EV-A once PTO is granted.

Last month a new interconnection application was signed for the new solar and installation is anticipated for later this month.

The other option would be to add battery. That would cutdown on the late afternoon/evening energy pull from the grid. If the battery can get you through at least midnight, then you'd never pull expensive energy.

Fortunately, we already have 2X Powerwalls. I find we are currently production limited in the winter to fill the batteries to offset afternoon/evening usage. I figure adding more panels will fix this, offset the added overall load we have with EVs, and prepay energy at a lower rate.

For example, with Tesla very competitive price, 12 panels cost $10,773. After the 30% Fed Credit the system will cost $7,541.10 ($2.00/KWH). Production is anticipated by Tesla to be 5,066 KWH in Year 1 (varies by location for others).

Conservatively, using 5,000 KWH/year x 23 (25 years of production with 0.7% degradation) = 115,000 KWH lifetime production. Divide $7,541.10 by 115,000 KWH = $0.065/KWH.

Alternatively, using 5,066 KWH/year x 27.92 (30 years of production with 0.5% degradation) = 141,459 KWH lifetime. Divide $7,541.10 by 141,459 KWH = $0.053/KWH.
 
The other option would be to add battery. That would cutdown on the late afternoon/evening energy pull from the grid. If the battery can get you through at least midnight, then you'd never pull expensive energy.

I considered that also, but I'm not sure I'd come close to breaking even with the cost of the batteries over 10 years. Hopefully as batteries get cheaper it will make more sense.
 
I considered that also, but I'm not sure I'd come close to breaking even with the cost of the batteries over 10 years. Hopefully as batteries get cheaper it will make more sense.

If you live in an area prone to power outages, also factor in the (subjective) value of keeping the lights on during an outage.

Bruce.
 
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Wow, jacking charging rates for EV owners almost 50% over 5 years. Unbelievable.

what's crazy about PGE is that they can't decide what they want to do. they had (maybe still have) a $500 per EV credit available. since i've owned 3 qualifying EVs, they have outright given me $1500. i guess they are regretting it now and trying to claw that money back... and it's even worse for EV owners who did not know about this rebate.
 
what's crazy about PGE is that they can't decide what they want to do. they had (maybe still have) a $500 per EV credit available. since i've owned 3 qualifying EVs, they have outright given me $1500. i guess they are regretting it now and trying to claw that money back... and it's even worse for EV owners who did not know about this rebate.
The PG&E EV rebate is now $800. Don't think they're being generous or anything. They money comes from the Low Carbon Fuel Standard program. They earn money from that program and by law they have account for that money separately and distribute it to people who use electricity as a fuel. The amount went up from $500 to $800 because the money was coming in faster than they could give it away. Personally, I liked the original SDG&E program where they took in money for a year and then distributed all that money in that year to the people who registered for the rebate. So, people got a large bill credit every year. However, I heard they're changing it. That's really too bad, because I was hoping that PG&E and SCE would go to a system like that.
 
The PG&E EV rebate is now $800. Don't think they're being generous or anything. They money comes from the Low Carbon Fuel Standard program. They earn money from that program and by law they have account for that money separately and distribute it to people who use electricity as a fuel. The amount went up from $500 to $800 because the money was coming in faster than they could give it away. Personally, I liked the original SDG&E program where they took in money for a year and then distributed all that money in that year to the people who registered for the rebate. So, people got a large bill credit every year. However, I heard they're changing it. That's really too bad, because I was hoping that PG&E and SCE would go to a system like that.

makes sense - this never made sense to me so not surprised to hear they were forced to do it. good to hear it's still going. i guess when my lease ends and i get another EV i'll be applying for this again.
 
The other option would be to add battery. That would cutdown on the late afternoon/evening energy pull from the grid. If the battery can get you through at least midnight, then you'd never pull expensive energy.

If this is the primary reason for wanting to get a PW, the breakeven will be a LONG ways out. Batteries will likely be bigger and cheaper by the time they reach breakeven.
 
If this is the primary reason for wanting to get a PW, the breakeven will be a LONG ways out. Batteries will likely be bigger and cheaper by the time they reach breakeven.
There's definitely not a reasonable ROI on it, but it does reduce the overall cost by some degree. The math is complicated, too, because PWs are AC-DC-AC so efficiency is somewhere around 90%. You're also generally arbitraging part-peak to peak rates, even if you're consuming overnight. This is because grid-and-solar-connected PWs typically recharge in the part-peak portion of the schedule (new EV-A schedule changes this). So it's not quite as lucrative as it seems. Charging the PWs on off-peak and discharging for the home's usage during peak is a better spread, but that peak-and-solar period is quite a bit shorter now.

Coming off of a 2-day power outage, @bmah's point is well taken. Having uninterrupted power (and water from our well) while the rest of the valley was mostly down was worth an awful lot.
 
There's definitely not a reasonable ROI on it, but it does reduce the overall cost by some degree. The math is complicated, too, because PWs are AC-DC-AC so efficiency is somewhere around 90%. You're also generally arbitraging part-peak to peak rates, even if you're consuming overnight. This is because grid-and-solar-connected PWs typically recharge in the part-peak portion of the schedule (new EV-A schedule changes this). So it's not quite as lucrative as it seems. Charging the PWs on off-peak and discharging for the home's usage during peak is a better spread, but that peak-and-solar period is quite a bit shorter now.

Coming off of a 2-day power outage, @bmah's point is well taken. Having uninterrupted power (and water from our well) while the rest of the valley was mostly down was worth an awful lot.

I don't care if I break even in 10 years. I'd rather pay Tesla than PG&E.
 
So I'm trying to figure out my situation - my original NEM1 contract was June 26, 2014, and I elected EV-A at that time. I had Powerwalls installed and interconnected on May 16, 2018, and I believe I was migrated over to NEM2 at the time. Service shows NEMMT, which is multi-tariff, but technically should be NEM-PS for paired storage. Regardless, does that mean my effective NEM2 date is May 16, 2018, and I can request grandfathering on EV-A until May 16, 2023?

I tried calling PG&E but they have a few messages suggesting they don't really want to answer billing and non-urgent questions during the current power shutoff. Fair enough, I can wait until next week, but I'd like any thoughts that anyone has here.

I'm pretty certain that I will net out better with solar and PWs on the EV-A classic rate and time schedule. My panels are west-facing, which is good, but still get shaded by some tall eucalyptus late in the day. Being able to feed back during part-peak is valuable, and the old timeframe gives me an extra hour plus of peak rates. That said, I'm pretty sure I will still be able to net out my usage regardless of which plan I'm on. And the new EV2-A would incentivize us to directly charge our cars off of solar in the daytime prior to 3pm, which is beneficial from a GHG perspective. So maybe I just let myself be moved.
 
Did you call the main PG&E number or did you call the Solar Customer Service line directly? Their number is 877-743-4112. They are the right people to talk to. The EV migration letter had their number on it.
Thanks. As it turns out, they still request delaying any non-urgent calls on that number as well. It's possible they've allocated callcenter staff to handle mostly outage support. I don't want to tie anyone up, so I'll just give them a call Monday.
 
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my original NEM1 contract was June 26, 2014, and I elected EV-A at that time. I had Powerwalls installed and interconnected on May 16, 2018, and I believe I was migrated over to NEM2 at the time. Service shows NEMMT, which is multi-tariff, but technically should be NEM-PS for paired storage. Regardless, does that mean my effective NEM2 date is May 16, 2018, and I can request grandfathering on EV-A until May 16, 2023?
No.

I'm in a similar situation: my original NEM1 date was in 2003, I switched to EV-A a year ago. Due to a roof leak I decided to get a new PV system which was just installed. Then I got the letter saying I will be moved to EV-2A. I called the PG&E Solar Hotline today, the rep had to ask two levels up but the answer was no, they will use the original NEM1 PTO date even if tell them I removed my old PV, go off NEM for a billing cycle, and then reapply with the new PV under NEM2. You can see the grandfathering dates at this link under the section titled WHEN WILL NEM CUSTOMERS BE TRANSITIONED TO THE NEW EV RATE?

Explore EV Fundamentals
 
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No.

I'm in a similar situation: my original NEM1 date was in 2003, I switched to EV-A a year ago. Due to a roof leak I decided to get a new PV system which was just installed. Then I got the letter saying I will be moved to EV-2A. I called the PG&E Solar Hotline today, the rep had to ask two levels up but the answer was no, they will use the original NEM1 PTO date even if tell them I removed my old PV, go off NEM for a billing cycle, and then reapply with the new PV under NEM2. You can see the grandfathering dates at this link under the section titled WHEN WILL NEM CUSTOMERS BE TRANSITIONED TO THE NEW EV RATE?

Explore EV Fundamentals
Thanks. That looks pretty clear - my PTO date will be prior to the cutoff, so you're right that it looks like I'm going to be migrated. Time to start considering what that means for battery and car charging, I guess.
 
so after this shutoff, and since i'm still on EV-A where i can arbitrage the peak/off-peak, i'm thinking about installing some powerwall2s.

problem is, the federal tax credit stipulates that you must charge the batteries with at least 75% solar power. since EV-A goes away for me in a year, after which the arbitrage opportunity is much less, after nov 2020 i would switch over to only charging the batteries with solar rather than overnight, especially if i can't get on E-TOU-B.

i definitely would not be fulfilling the rules for the federal tax credit until the 2nd year after installation. so the question is, can you defer taking the tax credit to the next calendar year after the equipment is installed?
 
so after this shutoff, and since i'm still on EV-A where i can arbitrage the peak/off-peak, i'm thinking about installing some powerwall2s.

problem is, the federal tax credit stipulates that you must charge the batteries with at least 75% solar power. since EV-A goes away for me in a year, after which the arbitrage opportunity is much less, after nov 2020 i would switch over to only charging the batteries with solar rather than overnight, especially if i can't get on E-TOU-B.

i definitely would not be fulfilling the rules for the federal tax credit until the 2nd year after installation. so the question is, can you defer taking the tax credit to the next calendar year after the equipment is installed?
For residential storage ITC, you must charge 100% from solar. The reduction in the credit between 75% and 100% only applies to commercial storage ITC applications.

It would be very difficult to convince an installer, Tesla or otherwise, to set up your Powerwall system without solar so that you charge from the grid when there is solar on-site. From an arbitrage standpoint, I estimate that the annual savings is about the same for Powerwalls on EV-A vs. EV2-A. The rate differential on EV2-A is Off-Peak Generation to Peak Consumption, whereas the EV-A differential is Part-Peak Generation to Peak Consumption. The problem is that your surplus solar after the batteries are already filled will be worth less on EV2-A Monday thru Friday.
 
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